I read in the newspaper yesterday a column by a young Woman about the fact Chivalry is apparently dead.
She says a study shows 82% of Women today want to pay for their meal on the first date. Only 33% want men to open doors for them. Only 10% would take an offered seat. Less than 33% have received flowers in the past year.
What's up with that? I was taught from childhood to always be a Gentleman. Apparently, that is not a positive thing today. The study goes on to say more than half of Women say Chivalrous encounters are so rare they arouse suspicion. I have found it amusing when I have been with a Woman who is putting on her coat and I will gently take it from her and assist her in putting it on. I have often gotten amazed looks, and they say "Wow, nobody does that anymore!" Well, Ma'am....I do.
Anybody else out there a dinosaur like me?
Jim

Dinosaur here... I hold open doors, etc. every day. Just part of my DNA.

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"... shall not be infringed."

I think the bra burning killed it long ago. However I am still a southern gentleman.

How often do you hold a door for a stranger, or let them into traffic, or do some other minor nicety and there is no thank you or even any acknowledgment of your kindness? It's a brave new world.

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No life story has happy end.

i still open ms tork'd's door, do the chair thing, treat her with respect and do get a lot of looks when doing so out in public when in the "cities".
was also raised to open doors for women like the other dinosaurs here. never thought at my age i'd be a dinosaur thou.

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is it just me?

If I didn't do all those things you mentioned, with the addition of ending every sentence with 'ma'am', my mother would leave the rest home, hunt me down, cut a small willow branch, and blister my backside.

f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

Sirs -as a member of the opposite sex, I am happy that you feel the way you do and were brought up to be as you are. I still appreciate a door being held open, being helped with my coat and having a chair pulled out. I'm also thankful that I live in a small town where courtesy is still expected and is still a way of life.

Don't believe everything you read in the papers!

Count me in. Still a dinosaur and raising my boy to be the same. Matter-of-fact my oldest daughter had a date (ugh) last night and commented afterwards how the boy walked her to the door after and he's the first one to ever do that. I told her that is how it should be always.


- Michael
FDNY 343
John 15:13

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-Michael
John 15:13 FDNY 343

I very seldom get to town, but I do these things when I do, and I almost always get some kind of positive acknowledgement. Especially from ladies, but often from men too when I let them in traffic.

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Georgia On My Mind

I was taught that being respectful doesn't cost a dime.

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paws for friendship

I'm a door opener & holder. Usually the older ladies smile & say "thank you."

Sometimes the younger gals just walk on through as though I'm not there. That's OK. I get to check out their bee-hinds as they're walking away...

Guess I'm a chivalrous pig...

4J's-We use a Hickory in the South, son, and the blistering takes a shorter time to produce!

I wish it was like that back in the 60's, I would definitely be a rich man today.

I do remember a young lady taking me out to dinner after she found out I won $5000.00 in a football pool, she was very nice to me.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

At least you aren't this guy.

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

People like to talk about California drivers but here it's not uncommon for drivers to let another car out of a driveway, make room at a bottleneck, etc. Very rare you don't get a wave & a smile back.

Try that in Boston...they still use hand signals there and it usually involves the middle finger.

Chivalry IS dead. And Women killed it.

I'm strictly speaking on my Generation (I'm 25). Frankly with Smartphones, txting and all that other **** people have their heads stuck so far into their phones, that holding doors etc.... never even comes to mind.

Now, I was raised like many here (Be a Gentleman) but even when I try to be Chivalrous Girls/whomever rarely even acknowledge my presence.

I actually have a framed copy of the Code of Chivalry hanging in a prominent place in my home. It's from 12th Century France, and I got it years ago at the Maryland Rennaisance Festival. Here's how it reads:

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Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and shalt observe all its directions.

Thou shalt defend the Church.

Thou shalt respect all Weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.

Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.

Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.

Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation and without mercy.

Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties in accordance with the law of God.

Thou shalt be generous and give largesse to everyone.

Thou shalt be the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.

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With the exception of that stuff about making war against the Infidel, I try to follow the Code every day...

I had just boarded a shuttle bus at a large airport and was dog tired. I had my laptop and my carry on bag. The bus quickly filled up, and just before the doors shut, a woman who had obviously had a bad day boarded the bus and walked down the aisle and stood near my seat.

I looked around and saw that it was standing room only. I stood up and said, "Here you go, here's a seat for you ma'am."

She spat out, "I don't need your 'bleeping' seat."

I said "Well, I can't sit in it as long as a lady is standing ma'am."

I'm standing there with my hat in my hand, Wranglers, and boots. She looked at me for a moment and said, "Your real, aren't you. Your doing this for real not for some other reason."

"Yes ma'am."

She smiled and said, "Thank you." As she sat down she asked, 'Where are you from?"

"Raised in Oklahoma, now living in Wyoming ma'm."

She said "I live in Manhattan, sorry for the way I acted."

We had a nice conversation to the next gate.

I'm not relating this story so you guys will say, 'Gee you're a nice guy.' I'm just relating it to show how good manners can brighten up someone's day

That's what I was thinking . . . I thought women wanted it this way.

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- Change it back -

Chivalry...is a two-way street.

If one half does away with their obligation, they can't realistically expect their counterparts to keep up with theirs. One of those fun little side effects to equality.

But I'm a cynic.

Retired pipefitter/steamfitter here. This little thing happened about 15 years ago I was about 50 at the time!

I was working on a vessel on the roof of a large chemical plant and a female (about 22-24) from a maintaince company came up on the roof to change filters and do some other fixups. I noticed she was having a problem moving a heavy door to get into the unit. I said here let me give you a hand and did I get a ration of you’re a chauvinist male diatribe. Just because I’m a female you think I cannot do this without help.

I let her try for a few minutes and at my own peril I again said look what your sex is not why I said I will help you I have gone into that unit before and that door is sprung & heavy and very hard to get open, but suit yourself and good luck. (I would give a hand to anyone that needed it.)

A couple minutes later she came over and actually apologized to me. She said she got hit on so much and talked down to by many guys that she was on guard and yes she could use some help. Ran into her a couple more times after that and we got along fine!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

So... did ya get her phone number?

I am only 27 soon to be 28 but still hold open doors for women and i help them on with there coat and i am polite to them and call them ma'am and i do my best to have good manners as well.

It is not dead. I had a cute little college girl hold the door for me a couple of days ago. I almost cried. My hair may be white, but it all still there.

No, Mrs. 4Js has a sixth sense that picks up on that sort of thing. It's uncanny.

I've been shot at more than once, had people try to run over me, hit me with all sorts of things, that was just part of the job.

But Mrs. 4Js, I'm scared of her.

We really do need a ROFLMAO emoticon!

I'm only a gentleman with the women in my family, and strange women over 45; the rest I ignore...they project an attitude of distrust and suspicion, while casting a jaundiced eye my way when I freely displayed my excellent upbringing, outstanding parochial school education, and impeccable manners. The officer and gentleman in me was put to rest when the proverbial bra set sail on the USS Funeral Pyre.

If you listen strictly to what women tell you , you'll get into trouble every time.

I think young men ought to be taught the "rules" when dealing with women. Then if he offers to hold a door open or offers his seat and she turns him down it is her fault. Some women like to be treated "special".

If you want a laugh on the subject, listen to Jerry Clower's "She Coon of Woman's Lib".

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Luke 22:36

I always wonder where these surveys are taken... In my small, southern town, gentlemanly conduct may not quite be the expectation it once was, but I've never seen it met with hostility either. Of course, I don't suppose we are like most of America anymore either. As my signature says, I am a proud anachronism, and I don't plan to change.

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Proud anachronism

But those are the best kind! Their life experience hasn't prepared them for common decency & they have no way to deal with it.

I like to fantasize that she goes through the rest of her day looking over her shoulder & wondering what that old fat bald creepster was really up to.

Yup, a door-holding, flat tire-changing, seat-giver-upper here.

I haven't had a nasty remark for my chivalry yet, but I have a response on tap if I ever do:
"I'm sorry ma'am. I mistook you for a lady. I hold doors for ladies."
Part of me hopes I never have to use it, but the other part of me...

Yeah, but at 64 years old, I'm still 6'2" and 180 lbs of romp and stomp...no beer gut and chrome dome genes in my family pool; on either side, for that matter.

Not exactly,but close.



f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

I still see a lot of courtesy and consideration in Dallas, some even at the VA hospital. Even some of the medical staff whose professional expertise I doubt are sometimes polite. But not all.

I often use a cane due to peripheral neuropathy sometimes making me drag my left toe, which can result in a stumble. I've been amazed at the politeness and consideration shown me by many citizens. Not universal, and traffic is often of the Devil Take the Hindmost sort.

As for women, they do like to think they're powerful. I write fan fiction about the late TV show, "The Lost World". The women fans are almost all uniform in preferring a character named Marguerite Krux, pronounced "Crew." Played by Rachel Blakely, she epitomized the modern "I'm in charge and don't any men forget it" philosophy. She did mellow with passing seasons and finally admitted falling for Lord John Roxton. But John put up with some "mouth" from her first. (This show was set from 1919-1922.)

Women authors universally base their stories on her and on John, relegating the other characters to supporting roles. My stories do feature the future Roxtons suitably, and I give Marg. some really good droll remarks, for she had some quite funny lines on the show, and was very intelligent. But I also have others in strong roles as they'd be, if real. I have a young Serbian friend who is now trying her own hand at fiction. She read one of my stories and said that it's good overall, but what she really liked was a scene after the heroes have left the remote jungle plateau and are living in Britain. Marguerite had become Lady Roxton, Countess of Avebury, by then, and the scene that Jovana liked was where she was giving breakfast orders to a maid. She is having Marg. run a jewelry store in her own story, so that she won't have to be just an aristocrat giving parties and enjoying the splendor of her station in life. Or being "just a wife" to one of the most articulate speakers in Parliament and a war hero who received the Victoria Cross in WW I.

My meager point here is that this feminist stuff isn't limited to the West now. Eastern Eurogirls also want to be heard and be achievers, with or without men. And if it's with men, they don't want to be the junior partner. I gather from Jovana and others that their men are not too thrilled with this attitude and it may take longer to take effect there. I can't say that I'm too sorry about that.

I think that even in the West, a strong man will still often make many women glad that he's a man...and that they aren't! I believe in equality in many areas, but in dating and marriage, I prefer to avoid women who want to act like my nanny, or worse.

My wife and I have been married for 34 years, and I still open doors for her (including the car door), hold a chair for her, and she even likes for me to order for her at restaurants (of course she tells me what she wants.) I've noticed many women at other tables smiling when I do this for her, so I don't think they resent it. It wouldn't matter anyway...as long as she likes it, that is what matters.

It's been a long time since I've been on a date (other than with my wife) but I never had my date pay for anything. I don't think I could do that, even now.

I try to be courteous to others, insofar as I can...I open/hold doors for women, let other drivers in (unless they are the kind that runs to the head of a long line of traffic, and then tries to edge in), and try to treat others as I would want to be treated.

Chivalry thy name is me. When I take woman a to dinner I always let them stand in line ahead of me at McDonalds. When they complete their order and she turns to me for money I point to my hearing aide and politely excuse myself to wash my hands. This gives my date the opportunity to boost her ego by paying her own way.
Women now days like to meet you somewhere rather than have you pick them up "where they stay". This attitude cracks me up as it suggests I'm some how dangerous and really care to stalk them. The only thing I stalk after 7 pm is a glass of milk and my jammies cause it's bed time.

Guilty as charged Jim,
I still stand when a lady enters the room.
Use Sir and Maam.
Open doors for ladies.
Insist ladies first as a rule.
Just call me an old Dinosaur i guess. The way i was raised.

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

I still open doors, stand up when a lady enters a room, use ma'am, etc.
Been yelled at more than once for just being me. I guess a lot of fols these days do not like it when a man does as he should. Was raised with manners and just can't help but be me.

I like this Wiki quote:

Chivalry isn't one of the better ways to pick up girls. However, it is one of the few ways to pick up girls that really matter.

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SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP

In many parts of the country, generally in the metropolitan areas, a common reason for that behavior is for, in management lingo, "setting the right expectations."

If their date paid for the meal, the "lady" would be expected to, er . . . shall we say, "put out" on the first date. A fancy and expensive outing may correlate to a higher pressure for "consummation."

The woman paying her own way would, in some perverse way, reinforce the thought that she is not easy or promiscuous, more of a "lady."

Such is the level of morality that we have dug ourselves into.

I have a great deal of respect and admiration for women. It's how I was raised. It is automatic with me, I open doors, hold chairs etc whenever appropriate in public. I don't smoke so I don't lite cigarettes but I do believe in paying the lady's way on a date. I'm 42 years out of the dating game but I still believe that's the right way.

I started dating early. I was 15, she was 17. (Always liked older Women) I didn't have a license yet so she had to pick me up. I learned early on it not only impressed my dates when I was a Gentleman, it REALLY impressed their Mothers! Their Mothers all loved me. Their Dads, well, I could tell they were looking at me thinking about how they could hide my body.
I always opened doors for them, but the car door was the one that really impressed them. Sure, anybody can open it when they get in, but the REAL Gentlemen have them wait in the car until the door is opened for them to get out. I've been married to the Lovely Missus P&R Fan for almost 24 years, and I still do that. I also do it for my Mom and my female clients. I have had people give me the thumbs up when I do it. My son is 19, and several times strangers have commented on him doing these things around Women. That, is one thing I am immensely proud of, because he got it from me.
Sometimes, you look at your kids and know Ya done good.
Jim

Moved to AZ fire years ago, in JULY=100*, tried to find a job. Coming home and spoted a young mother, two kid's in a truck with a flat tire, she was on a cell phn and her husband was telling her how to change it,stopped, told her I would change it, step over to the curb side, she would not do that so I started to do the job, she stayed on the cell phn and I was wrenching it off I heard" NO, HE HAS NOT TRIED ANYTHING" thought man I am 62 yrs old and my hearing just got worse, got it just about done and I hear "NO, IF HE TRIES ANYTHING, I CAN HANDLE IT"
Needless to say I got done and got out of there fast. SIXTY TWO
year old man from MINN in 110* weather, changing a tire on a truck that DID NOT EVEN BELONG TO HIM, with traffic going by.
I never thought about it but in AZ that is a SEXUAL DEVIENT, HA HA

I stopped a few weeks ago to help a stranded car with three, um... I'll call them young ladies. They told me that "It just shut off". I am a mechanic for a living, and always have a tool kit in my pickup.
Among my tools I have an OBD2 code reader with me. As I checked under the dashboard for the plug, the driver made no move to get out of the way, so I said loudly and clearly "I need to look under here for the plug." Then I announced that "I need to reach over and plug the scanner in, etc."
I made sure that they knew what I was doing so I didn't get accused of "trying something" with the driver. It's a sad world where even a Good Samaritan needs to worry about what people think about their intentions. I only ever intend to help.

Long story short, I found the problem and had them back on the road in a few minutes. They all thanked me and I was glad to send them on their way.

My girlfriend was a bit apprehensive at first, not really sure what I was about, maybe because I made a lot of stalking jokes on our first "date" which was a trip to the range to teach her about guns and safe shooting. I opened her door for her when I picked her up, she smiled and got in, and we had chatted all the way to the club. I guess she forgot about the door thing.

Once we arrived at the range I shut off the car and bounded out my door, strode around to her side, and opened her door. She gazed at me with a blank look for a moment, then finally said, "What?" I replied that I was simply opening her door because that was what gentlemen do, and helped her put her coat on, since it was chilly out that morning.

She smiled, held my hands for a moment as her coat wrapped around her shoulders, and I think I heard her mumble, "I could get used to this!"

Now she waits patiently for me to alight from the car, takes my hand as I help her out and to her feet, and smiles sweetly as I slide my arm around her. She's even learned to let me hold her chair for her at the restaurant, and push it in as she scoots up to the table.

Apparently she's told her female co-workers about this odd behavior, because when I drop in to say hello or bring her lunch they stare at me like I'm from another planet.

I'm pretty sure she likes it. She hasn't complained yet.

I guess you can include me in the dinosaur group. After 26 + years of marriage, I still open doors for my wife, hold her coat for her and even buy her flowers from time to time.

That's the way my parents raised me and it has served me well for my 51+ years.

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"Si vis pacem, para bellum."

I will hold open doors, let women sit down first, wait until they get their food before I chow down and stuff like that.

But man have I gotten glares from girls my own age. Im 23 and most girls my age seem to not like it.

But yesterday I did let a door close on some lady who was being a total hag... I opened the door for my girl friend and as I was walking through I noticed her coming in. I held it open so she could take it (Im in the doorway and cant get out of her way) and she glares at me and turns back and starts yelling at her husband. So I just let it go and walked away smiling to my self as it hit her on the behind.

Years ago I was in New Jersey taking some summer college courses. Entering the building I held the door for a tall blonde lady and, as she entered, I politely and quietly said "Ma’am". Her stare could cut steel. In the class, there she was. The instructor started with introductions and, when it was her turn, she chewed me up one side and down the other. Apparently I, alone, was responsible for holding every woman in American from becoming a "real" person. I remained speechless, having never dealt with such a person (before or since). After the class the instructor pulled me aside and told me about this lady, an "ultra feminist" who headed a national organization. He laughed it off, apparently I wasn't the first to feel her scorn. These gals are very few and far between but once you've met one you'll never forget it. (For the remaining weeks on campus I avoided her like a puppy running from a folded newspaper. I swear she would give Gunny a run for his money).