Listening to a Fox News host (initials S.H.) radio show and I'm beginning to think this is just another blowhard with the logic of a 2yr old.

If you didn't know that he was a marksman with a handgun you would have heard it several times every 30min. Since the Orlando shootings this jagoff has asked every guest or call-in if they would've preferred someone like himself standing next to them when this incident took place.Several people said they would not necessarily want someone that had a gun and been drinking shooting it out in a gunfight. The talkshow host said that he doesn't drink.

The immediate reply to that was "People don't always obey the law about drinking and driving so why would they necessarily carry concealed and not have a drink or two?"

My question to the knowledgeable ones here is...Is there any repercussion for someone who conceal carries and is caught under the influence? Is there a time when a good guy with a gun is not necessarily the lesser of two evils?

Personally,I can't stand this Fox News person and would love to discredit him but it isn't worth my time.I agree that the number of dead patrons might have been greatly reduced if a "good guy" in the crowd had a firearm but in a dark environment where you don't readily know who the perpetrator is and several people are carrying concealed I can only imagine the consequences.

Just my thoughts about a company that is not always "fair and balanced".Some of their people are just plain full of themselves.

Some people have a conscience and a purpose of life's values!! Don't put them all in the same basket, if you don't know how to pick the fruit!!!!


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Beginning to think? The guy's a jackass. I remember seeing one of his shows where he talked about what a tough guy he was for riding a horse along the border and getting to see one of the tunnels used for smuggling across the U.S. - Mexico border.

You'd have thought he had whipped the entire Mexican gang/drug/immigrant issue single-handedly.

Yes, he's a self absorbed, narcissistic blowhard like some others the network is famous for.

Unfortunately, it's hard (or virtually impossible) to find good news networks these days. Some folks have been recommending the One America News Network as an alternative but I've only read their website thus far.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

Missouri specifically exempts those who may be intoxicated and forced to defend themselves from potential prosecution. Before the change several years ago, possession of a firearm while intoxicated was a felony. After the change, intoxicated persons in possession of firearms only face prosecution if he/she uses the firearm in an illegal manner. Defending yourself while intoxicated is perfectly legal . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

If I only had a clue what you're talking about...

Am I to assume this law applies outside one's residence?

Thank you!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees through these propped up personalities.I guess that's why big screen televisions are a necessity....You need it to accommodate their fat heads and inflated egos!

It applies any place in the state (In Colorado, you're on your own) . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I would think there would be instances where one would ask the lawmakers "What the hell were you thinking when you agreed to this?"

Is drunk driving legal in Missouri because I don't see the difference.

So, you're minding your own business. You happen to have a firearm nearby. In Missouri, you can defend yourself. By your comments, you are okay with not being able to legally defend yourself.

All good. You roll your way, we'll roll ours. By the way, isn't marijuana legal in Colorado?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Here in my county in Kalisocialistfornicatya it's illegal for me to carry that derives most of it's business from alcohol. So if I go into a bar while packin i'm pretty well screwed. Not much of an issue with me anyway, anymore. Don't like bars and the local wannabebiker/thugs. Yeah, I know em, cause I ride.
Anyway, I just drink and smoke at home at night, now. Like right now. LOL

[QUOTE=Muss Muggins;139130954]So, you're minding your own business. You happen to have a firearm nearby. In Missouri, you can defend yourself. By your comments, you are okay with not being able to legally defend yourself.

All good. You roll your way, we'll roll ours. By the way, isn't marijuana legal in Colorado?[/QUO

According to your own words in post 4 you said that Missouri exempts someone from being intoxicated while being forced to protect themselves.I think I can safely speak for myself as well as others that I don't want to be around that person if they start shooting.If it's in their own home I say knock yourself out.I don't care how drunk you are.When you are out in the public you are held to a higher responsibility and being intoxicated while carrying a firearm doesn't sit well with me.As a responsible gunowner you should never be in that situation.

I stand by my comments because you never said if the law applies to only when in one's home or anywhere in general.It could make a huge difference in liability.

Just so you know...Marijuana was legalized under the stipulation of it being recreational but being caught under the influence of marijuana carries the same penalties as alcohol if you are doing something stupid.

Don't be so thin skinned.I'm sure that you yourself are a responsible person and would never endanger others.

Here it is illegal to concealed carry in a place that serves alcohol. Interestingly it is OK to open carry in such an establishment. Kinda bums me out because even though I sometimes eat in such places I rarely consume alcohol and if I do its like 1 glass of wine. With the local mentality towards guns, I highly doubt anyone would even think about reporting you if they did notice you carrying as long as you were sober.

While I don't think somebody should get drunk while carrying, I don't think that all drunks are the same. There are people I would trust with a gun drunk a lot farther than some people cold sober. But, then the ones I worry about the most would all think they were fine! (both the sober ones and the drunk ones)

So, in the end I figure that if you can't legally drive you shouldn't legally be carrying. But, also don't see why I shouldn't be able to defend myself because I want to eat someplace that serves or if I chose to have a glass of beer or wine or a mixed drink. But, then my personal rule has always been no guns and alcohol. I just don't need a drink that bad.

Here in North Carolina it's legal for you to go into places that serve alcohol. This was just changed awhile ago. But you can't consume ANY alcohol while carrying concealed. So when we go out now I'm the designated driver.

Same goes here in Ohio. That was an update to our CCW laws about 2-3 years ago.

Let's be clear that this only applied to MO. The majority of jurisdictions require an individual who is conceal carrying to not have alcohol in their system.

That's a sound policy as the decision to shoot in a situation requires sound judgement and in many cases the shooter's judgement - or lack there of - in the events leading up to the shoot can be critical in whether the need for self defense even arises and the "need" to shoot even occurs.

That's also the pitfall of this law for the shooter. Yes - if you shoot someone in self defense after or while drinking, you will not be held legally accountable for the shoot if it is legally justified. On the other hand, how well equipped are you to accurately make those required decision after you've been drinking? How much more likely are you to instigate events that lead to a shoot after you've bene drinking?

Just as importantly, how well do you shoot under stress in a crowded room, after you've been drinking? That's hard enough to do well when you're sober. Even if you manage to avoid criminal liability you will sure as hell be sued in civil court if you tagged a bystander after drinking.

In my opinion, this particular law borders on farm animal stupid and forces me to consider whether alcohol may have been affecting the MO legislature when they passed this law.

I agree with you completely that a responsible gun owner should not be drinking and using firearms.

When I lived in VA first open carry, and then ultimately concealed carry was allowed in establishments that served alcohol and a couple years ago NC law changed to allow concealed carry in establishments that serve alcohol.

However, in both cases state law does not allow you to carry a firearm if you've bee drinking. In effect, the law allows you to carry in establishments where alcohol is served, but it does not entitle you to carry a handgun if you've been drinking.

In essence, it's like a designated driver going to a bar and drinking non alcoholic beverages - with the difference that while some designated drivers may bend the concept a bit and stop at 1 or 2 drinks rather than abstain for a few hours before driving, any amount of alcohol in your system precludes you from carrying a handgun.

The reality is that I rarely drink. That's partly because I don't enjoy impaired judgement, and partly because I'm just much more comfortable carrying concealed when we go out. If I do drink, the gun is either left home entirely, or is unloaded and locked in a box first to remove the element of concealed carry.

In VA they called it the "Virginia Tuck" as concealed carry folks would untuck their shirt and flip it inside the butt of their hand gun to make it open carry.

I guess now it can be called the "Montana Tuck".

I share your views on no drinking at all when carrying, and like you I just don't need a drink when it comes to choice between concealed carry and drinking.

Pa is a gray area. There are no specific laws about alcohol and carrying. You can be in a strip club, a bar, a restaurant with a bar....at the bar, in the bar area all while armed. However it is frowned upon and I'm sure a DUI wile carrying will probably result in a loss of carry license. ....probably. ....I don't know because there is no specific law or a specific case. You can use the gun to defend yourself but it better be something that when looked at from a 3rd party perspective still looks like self defense.

Again, I'm going on "probably" here but if I were at a club and the same senerio played out......if the investigation found that my bullets didn't cause civilian casualties I would probably be fine.

Not everyone drinks to get lit. Not everyone pounds shots like it's their last day on earth. Having been to clubs in my younger days I can tell you it's difficult to get a drink. There maybe 5 bartenders for 500 people. Waiting in line to get a beer is a long and tedious process

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if someone who was carrying in the club responsibly and saw the perp it would have only taken one well placed shot and many would have been spared low light or not. As far as the [ fair and balanced ] I guess the other side is fair and balanced also. One action causes a reaction

Beware of that guy carrying a firearm who took a Benadryl.

In Kansas, and I would bet most other states, it is not only illegal to operate a vehicle or carry a gun when under the influence of alcohol, but also when under the influence of drugs or medications that can cause impairment which can include many medications.

Popular over-the-counter antihistamines like diphenhydramine (Benadryl) or chlortrimeton, melatonin, muscles relaxers, many different prescription pain relievers, and many other prescription medications all can cause drowsiness (most, if not all, have warnings on their labels or labels on the Rx bottle placed by the pharmacist).

Per Kansas law:
21-6332. Possession of a firearm under the influence. (a) Possession of a firearm under the influence is knowingly possessing or carrying a loaded firearm on or about such person, or within such person's immediate access and control while in a vehicle, while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or both, to such a degree as to render such person incapable of safely operating a firearm.

8-1567. Driving under the influence; penalties. (a) Driving under the influence is operating or attempting to operate any vehicle within this state while:
(4) under the influence of any drug or combination of drugs to a degree that renders the person incapable of safely driving a vehicle;

Look at the Drug Facts (continued) section (the upper part of the bottom half of the picture):

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Scoundrel & Ne'er-Do-Well

This issue came up here in Tennessee when "Guns in Bars" legislation was proposed.

I've never been so disappointed in many of my fellow Tennessee gun owners. The handwringing and predictions of drunken brawl shootouts from otherwise intelligent thoughtful gun owners was simply amazing. If nothing else, it was an education on the level of contempt gun owners have for each other as a group.

The law went into effect in 2009 allowing handguns in bars. If there's been a problem in the past 7 years I haven't heard of it. Yawn.

Next up ..................Medical Marijuana....... and Form 4473....

Question 5 "are you and unlawful user of.......marijuana...."

and the ATFE's stance on Federal vs. State Law!!!

Under Federal Law it is still unlawful.......................

I need to add my stance on alcohol vs. CCW (tried to post earlier but my browser locked up). Carrying concealed comes with a great responsibility. You should not be drinking if you're carrying. A beer or 2 with dinner, staying under .08 is OK I guess, but I don't. The times I want to cut loose, I won't carry. Typically I do that at home anyways since it's much easier to enjoy from the comfort of my own recliner lol

It's almost like the anti gun people thinking there will be shootouts on the streets if everyone is allowed to carry.

I've been going to bars almost weekly for almost 20 years. Usually on Saturday evening, to catch up with friends. It's like our social gathering place. In all those years I have yet to see a bar fight

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Well, there's law, then there's civil law. And that's where folks need to think real hard about the actions they take. As much as we'd like to pull a firearm and save everyone in the bar, you really have to think about the consequences.

Even when sober, being involved in a righteous shooting can cost the shooter in the neighborhood of $75,000 in legal fees, depending largely of course on who the District Attorney is, etc. However, even if there are no criminal charges, there is civil court and the suspect's family will sue you. Doesn't matter whether they have a case, you were responsible for the death of another person and you'll have to answer that suit = legal fees.

Maybe you were taking allergy medication, maybe anti-inflammatory meds, caffeine. I don't care what it is in your system, the lawyers will look to spin it, so you appear to be irresponsible. This leads some gun owners to think, "if there's a guy with a gun, I'll gather my own, and get out of the line of fire." Like it or not, this is the world we live in.

Not the norm, certainly, but I've seen more than my share of dust-ups in bars / pubs over the years...even once or twice in the nice little town I live outside of. It happens.

My personal belief is that if you're going to be drinking you shouldn't be carrying.

YMMV, of course, and anyone who chooses that path must do so with the full understanding of the possible consequences.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

" . . . shall not be infringed."

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I don't do any bars to drink but there are some bars that have great food. This day and time with the evil that's among us, I ignore ALL signs and ALL laws that try to prevent me from having the chance to protect me and my family...period.

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I'm Proud To Be An American!

The law is the same in Georgia as Missouri, and I suspect in many other states. Driving while under the influence and defending your life while under the influence are two very different things, I think. The former is something someone chooses to do. The latter is something someone has no choice in, and is simply reacting to a deadly threat that has made the decision for them. Do you really see no difference between the two?

I don't drink alcohol. I do carry in establishments that serve alcohol as long as they are not posted with the legal signage that says I can't. In Texas anyplace that derives 51% or more of its revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption must post the "51% sign" notifying customers that it is illegal to carry there. Any other restaurant may choose to post the 30.06 and / or 30.07 signs prohibiting concealed and open carry.

I remember our instructor saying that Texas has a zero tolerance policy on alcohol and firearms. According to him any amount of alcohol in one's system makes it illegal to carry a handgun. The way I read the law, it does not say that. It does say it's illegal to carry when intoxicated. I wouldn't push my luck by drinking at all while carrying . . . but, then again, I don't drink alcohol. Your choice may not be the same as mine, and I respect that.

This is Florida law.


>The 2016 Florida Statutes


Title XLVI
CRIMES
Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS
View Entire Chapter
790.151 Using firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages, chemical substances, or controlled substances; penalties.—
(1) As used in ss. 790.151-790.157, to “use a firearm” means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.
(2) For the purposes of this section, “readily accessible for immediate discharge” means loaded and in a person’s hand.
(3) It is unlawful and punishable as provided in subsection (4) for any person who is under the influence of alcoholic beverages, any chemical substance set forth in s. 877.111, or any substance controlled under chapter 893, when affected to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired, to use a firearm in this state.
(4) Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(5) This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one’s property.
History.—s. 1, ch. 91-84; s. 1210, ch. 97-102.<

I BOLDED a couple of lines.

As I read that, I can be falling-down drunk, and as long as I don't hsve my gun IN MY HAND, I'm okay.

And if I do have it in my hand, as long as it's IN DEFENSE OF SOMEONE'S LIFE (that would be ANYONE'S life) OR MY PROPERTY (not just propert, but MY property), I'm still okay.

So legally I could be drunk in that bar and shoot the terrorist.

Except that you can't have a gun in the bar in Florida.

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I always take precautions

Well, since we're quoting statute, here's Missouri:

RSMO 571.030

571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense; or

5. Subdivisions (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to section 563.031.

Seems pretty clear. Do something stupid, and you've got a problem. Lawfully defend yourself wherever you may be, all good.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Considering how few if any problems in Tennessee have arisen from allowing folks to legally carry in bars over the past 7 years, and the horrific loss of life in Orlando with no one shooting back, any state that makes it a crime to carry in a bar might want to rethink their wisdom... just maybe... ya think?

I had an interesting conversation with a Deputy Sheriff when I went in to pick up my renewed cfp a few months ago. Wyo statue says no cc in an establishment whose primary business is on-premise alcohol sales. I asked him the department's take on open carry in saloons, which the state statute doesn't address. I have an on and off-premise liquor license; he knows that so the conversation wasn't necessarily about me carrying. (We were open one day a month for three hours for about eight years; now we'll open when somebody calls to ask if they can stop in for a wee dram in a smoke-free environment with no drunks.)

The Deputy said a bar owner could set a policy of no open carry.

One of the other watering holes in town has one of those old-timey, novelty signs that says, "Cowboys, hand over your six-shooter to the bartender." Cute, but never followed. Some days you can see a hogleg hanging on the belt of everyone, including the cowboys, at the bar. And, legal or not, we all know which "locals" are packin' (cc). Hasn't been an issue in my ten years up here.

The Deputy said the department almost wished cc was legal in bars because exposed handguns could be much more provocative. Interesting take on the topic, and another example of enforcers and uber ideological lawmakers not being on the same page in the song book.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

In Arizona it is legal to carry concealed in a place that serves alcohol but you can't drink any. So if you have dinner for instance and just soft drinks fine anything with alcohol in it and you've broken the law.
Of course the anti's screamed there would be blood running in the streets after this legislation was enacted several years ago; however we're still awaiting all that blood!
Jim

We all know that attorneys can try to turn a justifiable shooting into an unjustified shooting or even an accidental one because that's where the civil financial recovery lies.

That said, when carrying and socializing with friends, I try not to consume any alcohol because once it is known that I had a drink, an attorney may more easily call my judgment into question because I left the door open for him to imply impairment on my part.

On those rare occasions when I've been on major league pain killers following surgery, I stay home because I would not be allowed to drive either.

I'm sure it's happened but I've never seen it. Maybe these arnt typical bars....I know one definitely isnt. These arnt biker bars or dome hole in the wall but they arnt exectly the Ritz either.

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Most all of the bar fights I see get settled with a cue ball any way . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Yea these arnt those type of bars. Not your typical bar atmosphere I suppose.

Here's one. The bar is small and all the way to the back. In the center there are tables



This place also has an outside bar next to a bocci court and the owners make their own wine. If you buy the ingredients you can come and make your own with them.


This one is made to look like an old Abby or monastery. About 400 beers


No t really what you'd think of when you hear bar

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Well guys it matters not what is legal in other States. It happened in Florida and as mentioned it is not legal to carry in a establishment that is primarily a bar or alcohol serving establishment. There are some percentages of how much food vs how much alcohol and other nonsense.
Kinda like walking into the USPO, a Court Room, School, a Pro Football game etc etc.

All the hypothetical. How about in a room with 350 people how many were standing behind the guy?

Should have ,would have, could have done this or that.

That said, so the LAW Abiding people obeying the law usually do not carry is such places, but the crazy idiots who don't care about laws are gonna do what they are gonna do.

But as they say.

Every time some idiot shoots someone. lets take the guns away form those who didn't.

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Still Running Against the Wind

It varies by state, but most states have some restriction about CCW in an alcohol serving establishment. In IL if an alcohol serving establishment receives more than 51% of its revenue from alcohol it is against the law to carry at that establishment, and the establishment must post the slashed circled no firearm symbol on the entrance of the establishment. If there is no proper symbol posted at the entrance it is "assumed" it would be legal to carry there. Also, any establishment may elect to prohibit the carry of firearms, and if so must post the correct symbol at the entrance.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

In Colorado, bar carry is OK, but it is illegal to carry while intoxicated. I do occasionally enjoy a beer with dinner while out with the wife. At 6' 3", 225 lb, I am not concerned.

I think it is pretty clear that guns and alcohol do not mix. I won't deny your right but don't cry for help when in trouble. It is hard enough being allowed to carry while sober. I see no way a drink or two will help the current climate.

First of all, let me say that I don't normally drink. I did some wine tasting when I visited France, but beyond that, I don't drink.

When this whole thing in Orlando came about, I was amazed that no one shot back. Afterall, Florida is the state that the CCW movement really took off from! Then I find out that concealed carry was outlawed in that club, so that explains it. IMO, and you can disagree of course, but IMO, this is another case of the nanny staters being responsible for the deaths of multiple individuals by setting up Gun Free Zones. Nut cases or terrorists, they all seek out the soft targets in our society, the Gun Free Zones, where they can massacre as many people as possible. Yes, this was a gun control issue, but not the way the Liberals are representing it, in fact, just the opposite. GUN CONTROL LAWS AND THEIR ADVOCATES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS MASSACRE! We don't need to ban guns, we need to ban Gun Free Zones!

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Buy American!

Not a drinker anyway. Carry seldom but always have a firearm near. Wife does carry but she also does not drink. Most of the driving and carry laws I have seen says no driving or carrying while the substance is detectable in the blood. Alcohol is pretty much clear in 24 hrs after consumption. Marijuana is detectable for 2 or more weeks....hmmm does that mean a driver or a concealed carrier is under the influence of MJ 10 days or more after use?? Personally I see no problem with a person carrying in an establishment that sells liquor... I do think if you carry in such places a person should forego the use of alcoholic beverages. I also disagree with the use of MJ in the same instance. Just my take on it.

And let that be the last word.

Thank you all for your input.

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SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP