Good evening:

I have owned and used a Cannon brand gun safe for about 6 years. Recently, I added a small LED lamp to the interior of the safe, and I was very pleased as to how much easier it is to find things in the safe now with the lamp installed. As I was closing the safe door last night, I was very surprised to notice I could see light coming from the upper right hand corner of the safe door. There is no obvious damage to the safe door, but this gap is about the thickness of 4 credit cards and you can actually see inside of the safe through this gap. I just sent Cannon Customer Service an email about this and I hope they respond quickly with their opinions and advice.

What do you guys think after looking at the photos? Is this normal or a defect?

Regards,

Dave

Attached Images

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	safe 2.jpg (131.0 KB, 342 views)
	safe 3.jpg (172.8 KB, 401 views)

I don't care what they tell you, that would concern me greatly. Most quality gun safes have an expanding fire seal. But that's one heck of a hole to seal!

Check the seal on the inside of the door.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

That is unacceptable. Your fire protection time can't be very good with that poor fit. It seems your safe does not have an L lip that the door fits against if you can actually see into the safe.
I agree with the above post. It could be the seal has come off. But that still doesn't explain no L lip made on the front door frame for the door to close against. Even if a seal is out of place you shouldn't be able to see inside the safe.

Looks like the door may have "settled" on its hinges. My main worry would be an adequate fire seal if needed. Contact the manufacturer.

Larry

That ain't right! In addition to the decreased fire protection, that increases the ease of breaching that door for the bad guys. That manufacturer needs to make it right. .....

Relax, that's just so you can check on your guns, without

opening the safe. You don't want to wear out the tumblers, do ya?

I have a cheapo Stack On safe that looks perfect. They should do better than THAT.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I mean no disrespect, but using the term Canon and quality in the same sentence shouldn't be allowed. They are made in China, and are not a really good product. While they are better than a simple gun cabinet or nothing at all, you get what you pay for, which is a safe that looks good but is easily accessed by criminals who know certain things about them, and whose quality often is lacking, especially internally in the fire proof lining. If you look on line, you'll find videos confirming what I've said.

Like many things, you get what you pay for in safes. My first one was a Browning, and while it's a good safe, it pales in comparison to my Fort Knox. Of course the price also pales in comparison.

OP: I would not be happy with that. Not only is it a source for humidity to seep into the safe, but it's also a place fire and heat can get through. Let us know how you make out with them. On some safes, the door can be adjusted, but I have no idea if that applies to yours or not. Good luck!

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Sure is a much bigger gap than my Fort Knox has. It sure looks like quality control was on coffee break when that safe left the plant.

Second thought if that is normal for that company they must be the Taurus of the safe world!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Maybe, maybe not. Not all Cannon products are made in China.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

You are right, and I stand (well, sit actually) corrected. Here's a break down:

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

I have a Cannon just like yours - looks exactly the same with the internal LED turned on - light shining through just that upper right corner like your photo. Although there is a space around the door, there is about a 1 inch flange on the inside and a gasket on the door that compresses against it. Like someone said, it's better than a gun cabinet but in retrospect, I wish that I had bought a higher quality (and bigger) safe - mine is about 5 years old (from Costco).

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Lou

I just put a turned on flashlight in my Cannon and shut the door. There is NO light shining around the door that I can see. I also suggest you contact the manufacturer.
As far as safes go; I had a lengthly conversation with the Asst. Chief of my Police Dept. regarding safes and he said that given some time knowledgeable crooks can get into any home safe based upon his departments experience.
Jim

Given enough time crooks can break in to bank underground safe deposit VAULTS!

All a safe does is buy you time. How much time you want depends on your wallet and your paranoia level!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Other than in the movies, when was the last time you read about crooks breaking into a bank vault?

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Canon safes are reviewed very poorly.

Not common but it happens. Like I said you buy time, if you got a lot of money you can buy plenty of time!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Depends on the model. My dad has a nice Cannon that he bought 8 or 9 years ago. He has no problems.

A little research before buying is always wise.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Good morning:

Thank you to all who have responded. I sent and received a response from Cannon Gun Safes yesterday morning, below:

Good evening: I have a Cannon Model EX-20 gun safe that I have owned for over 6 years. I recently added a small LED lamp to the safe and last night I was very shocked to see light coming from the upper right hand corner of the closed safe. There is no apparent damage, but there is a gap that is about the thickness of 4 credit cards. You can easily see inside of the safe through this gap. Is this normal? I have taken some photos that I can send if you would like to see them - I will need an email address to send them to. Please advise. Thank you.

Hello;
Are safe are not airtight that's normal the light come from the inside of the safe, the unit has a special fire gasket, that when the temperature rises it expands up to 12 times its size, sealing the outer frame of the door, preventing additional heat and smoke from penetrating the safe, but if you want to send me pictures of the safe i will review the pictures p[lease send the pictures to [email protected] case#xxxxxxx.

Respectfully
xxxxxxxx | Customer Experience Department

Not satisfied with her response, I wrote back the following:

Good afternoon Edith:

Thank you for your response. I understand you feel the condition I have described with my safe is “normal”, but I find it very problematic in that it allows not only people to look into the safe, but it also provides an easy access for a prying tool to force the safe door open. This renders the safe, in my opinion, not much better than a school locker for storage of my firearms and valuables. Yes, fire protection is a key reason for my purchase of a gun safe, but the primary reason for this purchase was security for my firearms and valuables, and I simply cannot see how my safe provides security with this gap in the door.

I would appreciate your re-evaluation of my complaint, and escalation of this matter to your supervisor(s) if necessary.

Thank you


As of this morning, no response from Cannon. I am writing their president, Steve Hoffa this morning to get his spin on this. I will update all of you with his response.

Regards,

Dave

I have seen similar door fit pictures on a lot RSC's in that price range. You have to go up in price range to get a really nice fitting door from what I have seen. Now this is a nice fitting door! It's also plate steel, not formed sheet metal.

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Glenn
FAS1 SAFE

Despite having a graduate degree and an IQ that is in the three digit range, I've never been accused of being overly intelligent. My purchase of this, my first gun safe, is a case in point. My thinking prior to purchase could be thought of as: "it's a steel box with a lock on it". Whoa! Big mistake! Yes, it is a METAL box with a lock on it. But I should have done my research and taken a bit more time prior to purchase. Part of my drive was that the wife finally agreed to let me purchase a gun safe, and they were on sale at the local Costco. But I take full credit for this decision.

If anyone out there wants to learn something - take heed and do your research. Yes, a better gun safe will cost more, but pay once, cry once. At a minimum, my current safe is better than hiding your firearms in a closet or under the bed. But coulda, shoulda, woulda is hard at work now.

Regards,

Dave

Hey, it's called live and learn. You've learned and won't make the same mistake, even with non-related things. That's the important part and where the IQ comes into play. We all screw up. Show me someone who's never made a mistake and I'll show you someone who died at an extremely young age.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Okay, I wrote to the president of Cannon Gun Safes, Steve Hoffa, this morning. His response is as follows:

Hello,

I will add to Ms. Gomez’s comments.

I can assure you the security and structural integrity of the safe is excellent.

Although light from the inside can “leak” out and be visible one cannot see inside of the safe or of its contents.

The gap that you reference of is well within our standard of tolerances. Frequently we judge this gap of our competitors and it can be as much 4 quarters or more (1/2” +).

As for being able to “Pry” open the safe the critical item here is the overall design of the door, door frame and general construction of the frame and safe. The various “bends” that we place in the design is what gives it superior strength from prying. We have countless customer reports about their safe where attempted break ins of numerous methods to include prying have failed.

Our safes become “air tight” when the fire gasket is expanded due to fire or excessive heat. As Ms. Gomez explained the seal will become 12x larger filling all the gaps between the door and door frame so that smoke or water (from the fire department) are not allowed in.

I am confident that the security of our product is not the same as a “School Locker”.

I hope my explanation answers your questions and concerns sufficiently as we feel your safe is within our quality control standards.

Feel free to contact me if you have further questions.

Sincerely,

Steve Hoffa | President
P: 702.910.2400 | C:702.901.1865

Not happy with his response, I replied thusly:

Good morning Mr. Hoffa:

Thank you for your very prompt response. Despite your assurances, I can quite easily look through this gap in the upper right hand corner of the safe door and see items within the safe such as handguns, jewelry boxes, etc. I cannot see the entire contents of the safe, but I can very easily identify contents in the right hand side of the safe without any difficulty at all. At least the ventilation slots on a school locker are angled downward so you cannot see inside of it.

Regards,

Later this morning, I received an email from Cannon Gun Safes asking me to rate the support I received. There were two options:

* Good, I'm satisfied
* Bad, I'm unsatisfied

I rated the support as "Bad, I'm unsatisfied". Additionally, I left the following comment:

I think the support I received, even from your president, Steve Hoffa, is inadequate and unacceptable. I plan on sharing this information with members of the different gun forums I am a member of, as well as my fellow shooters and collectors. Additionally, I will begin planning on a replacement gun safe which won't be a Cannon brand.

Please draw your own conclusions.

Regards,

Dave

How come when I go to the Cannon website, there's a different fella' listed as President and CEO . . . ?

Cannon Safe - About

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Don't beat yourself up Dave. Just the fact that you have a metal locking box to store some stuff in, puts you head and shoulders above most gun owners when it comes to protection. Most gun owners have their guns under the bed or in a closet with no lock whatsoever.

Are there better safes? Sure, but break out your check book and unloose the purse strings 'cause it's gonna hurt.

Now, to give you a little piece of mind, look at this:


This is a bottom-of-the-line, made-in-China Liberty gun residential security container (RSC) (safes are found in banks and very rarely homes). I was at the store when they were taking this off the truck. This happened on Thanksgiving 2011. The thieves had about 3 hours to work on this; they never got in and left behind a bunch of broken tools.

The point is, even the cheap gun RSCs are better than a closet and will stop most bad guys.

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Freedom isn't free.

That would be last May: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/ny...roof.html?_r=0

I think the main point of a safe is to keep guns safely away from children and others who should not have access. While I agree that a determined crook with the right tools and enough time can break into any home safe, I think opportunistic smash and grab types are more typical of likely house robbers, in most of our cases, and that a good home safe would likely be more than they could handle.

Watch movies like "Thief" and "The Score" to see how real pros get into a safe. A home RSC is a deterrent, not a safe for diamonds. Consider the simple robbers that will enter you home. Make sure whatever RSC or safe you have is bolted to joists or concrete. A real pro doesn't want firearms unless you have a very special collection.

Meh... I did plenty of research. One of the things it turned up is that most commercial gun safes are actually "home security containers" or something like that. Given time most will not deter a professional that really wants in.

Just what were you expecting Cannon to do?

Yes, FredBart is correct and I forgot to mention it. The RSC I pictured above was properly installed.

What that means is it was bolted to the concrete floor. This helps reduce the possibility of being pried open. It's better if it is mounted with the left side close to a wall. This makes it so they can't move a pry bar when trying to pry on the left side of the door.

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Freedom isn't free.

Good question. Frankly, I was hoping they would say something along the lines of: "Oh, your safe door needs to be adjusted. Here's how you do it...", or: "your seals need to be replaced, we're shipping a new set to you along with the instructions on how to install it:, or: "We're sending you the name and phone number of a locksmith who will inspect your safe and make the needed repairs".

I did not expect the factory to tell me that a gap like that was normal. I guess it was a mistake for me to install the LED lamp. Before the lamp, I never realized there was a gap in the safe door - in other words, fat/dumb/happy.

Regards,

Dave

That's normal. It provides a place to let the smoke out. If it bothers you, turn out the light.

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

I have the Cannon "Scout" and I am very pleased with it. Holds numerous rifles and hand guns. I also installed a LED push on/off adjacent to three of the shelves but unlike your situation, everything is sealed tight (checked after your OP. Sorry they don't want to make things right for you. Got mine through Costco at a great price including delivery. Six digit electronic combo utilizing 9V battery. Change battery out once each year. Everything works as it should.

Or: The manufacturers people are telling the truth, the gap is within specs. and a gasket will expand when heated. The problem is obviously the lamp in the safe. Remove the lamp.

Wasn't there a vault robbery this summer in the EU? Crooks went in on a Fri night and had all weekend to do their thing.

There was another last year where the thieves used a construction concrete saw and bored their way into the vault, again had lots of time.

Just yesterday I read about a vault broken into in Canada, thieves used a suppressed Lahti 20mm over a weekend, they got in.

"Safes" are recovered all the time, discarded in the boonies after they are breached by crooks. This included gun safes that are dragged off so the thief can take the time to cut it open.

Good afternoon:

Here's an update on my situation with my Cannon RSC:

It took a while, but Cannon finally stood behind their product. I had a number of phone conversations with their customer service manager and asked him if there was any way the door could be adjusted, or the gap otherwise reduced. The answer was no. He explained that the gap was supposed to be there, and was part of the design as the RSC had internal, rather than external hinges, and the gap was needed for the door to open and close. I then asked if the gap in the door was within specs - and what were the specs? He said that no more than 2 quarters should fit in the gap, and if they did, I should let him know. Well, two quarters easily fit in the gap. I took photos and sent them to the manager, and he called me and asked me what I wanted to do about it. I asked him what the company did in same or similar circumstances, and he said I could have a replacement safe.

When I asked how and when this would occur as I had to figure out how to get the current RSC unbolted from the floor (concrete slab), he told me that I could keep it along with the replacement RSC. He also said he would send two dehumidifier rods along with the replacement RSC, but the only problem was going to be finding a replacement RSC as the model I had was no longer made. It took a few weeks, but he finally found one that was the same dimensions, and they shipped it to me at no charge. The replacement RSC was brand new, but also a model no longer made by Cannon. This one is actually a step up from my original RSC - it's approx. 200 lbs. heavier, and has LED lights that turn on when the door is opened - and no door gap!

It took a while, but I think Cannon made good on this issue. Thanks to all for your encouragement and support.

Regards,

Dave

Glad to see your persistence paid off.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

If burglars are capable of breaking into a Bank Vault then I'd say there is NO gun safe that is impenetrable if someone has the brains, know-how, tools and time. Most home burglaries are done by punks looking to get in and out very quickly, and a good descent quality safe that is bolted down securely will usually do the job. If the burglars bring proper tools, have the time and are smart, they will get in. The better the safe the longer it will take them. That is why it is important to have the best quality safe you can afford, have it central station alarmed, hidden away in a clocked closet, and never advertise its location to anyone but trusted friends or relatives. Even with trusted people, the less people that know about it the better off you are.

As far as the OP 's question is concerned, NO - NOT ACCEPTABLE! Glad everything worked out for you!

The smart crooks will bypass the door and cut open the side or top with a 4 inch grinder. Takes about 10 minutes. Think not? I have seen it done. Too much noise you say? They wrap the grinder with bubble wrap. Too much smoke and sparks? Water. The big bad doors on gun safes are just selling points. Smart crooks go with the avenue of least resistance.

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SSG Ret.
TN & TX ARNG 66-06

Of course it's that easy. I've done it twice.

But if one is stupid enough to just place a gun safe somewhere in the home and not take extra security measures then they can accept the consequences if all goes wrong.

I've seen vacation homes broken into and the thieves stayed for over two weeks.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Well, that took a while, but I'm glad you got it worked out. Bonus!

There is nothing that can't be broken into. It just takes time and know how.

Yeah, thankfully there just aren't many of them around. The smart crooks aren't looking to rob my house anyway. I don't have enough value for them. The RSC is really only there to stop the smash-and-grab guys and slow down the really determined ones.

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Freedom isn't free.

The gap in the OP's safe is completely unacceptable.

What happens when your house catches fire? The firemen house the hell out the house.

Gun safes are not water resistant at all. So by the time the fire department lets you assess the damage, your guns have already started to rust. Increased gaps in the door only let more water/moisture in.

One very good reason why I use gun socks on all of my guns.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

People think that crooks are dumb. And yes some of them are. But you wouldn't believe some of the ingenious things that I've seen crooks do.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Hi Kanewpadle:

I think what really helped was being patient AND persistent. When the manager first called me, he was very nervous. I told him I wasn't interested in causing anyone any problems, but just wanted my safe fixed. Secondly, I think what really helped was by my asking him what the factory specs were for the door gap after he explained to me the reason for the gap to begin with. Once I sent him photos showing two quarters easily fitting in the gap, it was pretty easy after that.

Regards,

Dave