Seems the WA Gov has outlawed the sale here in Washington state to save the world.......
Tried to order on line from Amazon but won't ship it my address!
So, I ordered it from a guy on Ebay!

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

Has Washington state outlawed R134A Freon. Why would they do that? Doesn’t make any sense. What do they think is a replacement for the R134A Freon?

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James
On the Llano Estacado

The substitute is Dichlorodifluoromethane, (F12),

I had to learn how to spell that when I went to Tech school,,
I also had to learn monochlorodifluoromethane,, (that is F22)
I have a 30 pound unopened tank of F12 in the garage,,

The problem is that it is more rare than small pistol primers were a year ago!!

WA is all about taking your rights while picking your pocket. Illegal drugs are okay though...

This is the Washington banned refrigerant list. Apparently, there is a product called ZeroR which is an accepted substitute for R-134a in auto AC applications. I know nothing about ZeroR, except it is stated to be nothing more than propane. WAC 173-443-040:

R134a was discontinued in new cars in 2021. The replacement is 2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene - Wikipedia

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Release the Kraken

The new automotive refrigerant R1234YF is around $550 for 10lb.!

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Who are those guys?

I must be sittin' on a small fortune. Down my cellar I have about 40# each of virgin R12, R22, and a pretty full bottle of 134A. I only had the 134A to have something to make a couple bucks on someone's car if needed. I'm retired and got rid of all my gauges, etc., as far as anyone knows. I don't know of any refrigeration equipment, commercial, that I've ever worked on that used 134A. I could probably get rid of it all for $20/lb. if I needed to get rid of it quick. The 12 & 22 is worth more, depending on how bad someone needed it. None of the vendors around here have 22 on their shelves, and R12 is gone (but there's still a lot of old equipment that uses them.) The consumers pay.
I never priced that 1234YF, both my cars have it. $55/lb. is ridiculous!

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Waiting For The Sun.

R134 runs around $350 for 30#. R12 is for older vehicles so th demand is dwindling.

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Who are those guys?

I remember R12 for sale for $1/lb.

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Who are those guys?

I started in the summer of 1974, R-12 & R-22 were about 22 cents a pound in 30# cans. Remember R-11 & R-21 for moisture removal, and Red Check and Blue Check for leak detection? Then just vent into the wind!

That was NOTHING! A family friend was a USAF refrigeration tech in the guard, at his air base a building full of bombs got too hot to safely enter, so the hosed them down with a tanker truck of R-12! circa 1971

Ivan

Listen carefully and you can hear the EPA's black helicopter overhead.

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Release the Kraken

A friend of mine and I got hold of a bad tank of R12. We shot it with .22s.
We thought it would explode. All it did was run out like water and boil off.

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Who are those guys?

Whatever happened to Ozone Depletion Potential (ODP)
numbers?

All I see now are Global Warming Potential (GWP) Numbers.
I'm a firm believer in ODP. I am not convinced that GWP
is a valid science yet.

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I'm with her

I feel for the rookie/apprentice trying to explain the whole system needs replaced because they outlawed the “Freezon” that is in his A/C isn’t made anymore. “I’m going back to McDonalds.”
Edit to add: we used to blow out condensers with R22. I believe R12 was 60 cents a lb. Wholesale when I started in the field. There was a drop-in replacement for it, I think it was called Hot Shot in a blue cylinder. There was also Hot shot in a green jug for 22. AFAIK it’s no longer made. It was too cheap to repair systems I guess. Just evacuate and recharge. It’s all about the money!

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Waiting For The Sun.

Hell, I remember using 22 to blow out drains when we were too lazy to go back to the truck for the compressed air!

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Forum consigliere

While yer bragging ya got any chlordane or some DDT....asking for a friend

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Forum consigliere

We used to have a fuel quantity indicating problem on the B-52s and used R-12 to spray the connectors to simulate high altitude temperatures. Sprayed tons of the stuff. A couple of ozone holes have my name on them.

My AC tech told me the new refrigerant has butane in it. That's going to be a real blast when it starts leaking out.

A friend from Church was a VP with Farmers Insurance in Columbus. He was in charge of all their support systems for the region, things like fleet and building maintenance. In about 2005 he was talking about how much a replacement system was going to cost (a few hundred thousand dollars), and then what was he supposed to do with the 54,000 pounds of R-12 that he had accumulated to keep things running into the future? I said get bid on the replacement system that includes the spare freon. Farmers got a new system and a check for $100,000! My friend got a nice bonus and took us out to dinner.

I have about 10 pounds of R-22 left for my home system (and my tools, gauges, and recovery system) for when This compressor goes out. So far I've only had to put a capacitor in the 20 year old unit, it has to be one of Bryant's last R-22 units. Every year I see half a dozen condos in the complex getting new systems!

Ivan

We got a new shipment of self-contained refrigerators maybe a couple years before I retired from Pgh Schools. I can't remember the name of the refrigerant but it had a warning sticker about the propane in it. It basically outlined the space required around the units so if it leaked out it wouldn't be an explosive issue. I think I would purge the system with dry nitrogen before I put a torch to it for repairs. I never attended any classes about procedures for working with the stuff since I knew my career was about over, and I had our buyer make sure we got a parts & labor warranty so I never had to work on them.
An old "ice boxer" told me that some of the early ultra-low temp systems they had to add propane, at "experimental" amounts, to keep the oil return running free.
It was a very interesting occupation for sure! And I don't miss 2 AM callouts one bit, nor do I miss waking up for work!

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Waiting For The Sun.

I still have 70 pounds of R22 and 45 of R134a in my storage unit.
In a few more years I could be a rich man.

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I'm with her

My Dad had a glass jug of chlordane in the coal cellar.
For all I know it’s still there.

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Who are those guys?

Both Ammonia and Propane are highly efficient and very cost effective refrigerants, and would be good performers in almost any application. Except for the toxicity of Ammonia and the flammability of Propane. There are many ammonia systems in use for large commercial and industrial refrigeration applications. They present too much risk for use in residential and automotive A/C applications.

I remember when I was a young kid, my parents had some device for frosting cocktail glasses. You put a can of Freon in it, and it would squirt Freon into the glass to make it very cold. I don’t remember them using it more than a couple of times. Another former use of Freon was for those stupid horns that fans would take to sports events and toot them.

Back in my days at Ohio State, one of my Chemistry professors, Dr. Albert Henne, had all of the original patents on chlorofluorocarbon refrigerants. I didn’t particularly enjoy being in his organic chemistry classes. Too much of a hardass and he came across as being far too brilliant to be teaching mere undergrads.Albert Leon Henne | Ohio State Office of Research

This reminded me of a recent WaPo article, since "the heatin' season" is about to be upon us and everyone wll be firing up or going looking for an air conditioner, with the usual stresses on the grid.

Air conditioning has a climate problem. New technology could help.

In the article, there is a link to an innovative new cooling technology being researched by the Wyss Lab at Harvard.

"...At Harvard, a multidisciplinary team is working on a design for a new type of air-conditioning that uses a fraction of the energy, and uses water instead of ultra-polluting refrigerants. Called ColdSNAP (SNAP stands for “superhydrophobic nano-architecture process”), it incorporates a unique coating also developed at the university. ...

...In this case, the coating repels liquids, inspired by the way duck feathers stay dry. The team realized that if it selectively applied this coating to certain places on ceramic—a material that naturally absorbs moisture—they could use it in a new type of evaporative cooler. Sometimes called swamp coolers, the devices usually only work in dry climates. The basic concept is simple: If you put hot air in contact with water, the water absorbs heat as it evaporates. It uses 75% less energy than typical air conditioners. But the process of evaporative cooling also creates humidity, and so doesn’t work well in, say, Florida. In the new device, when water evaporates to cool the air, a heat-exchange component made with the coating traps the humidity, and the air flowing into the room is more comfortable...."

Link to Wyss Lab ColdSNAP page for the techno-curious.

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

Sounds interesting. Who wouldn't want a system that is lower in operating cost - depending on what it costs to install, of course.

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Or something like that . . .

Evaporative coolers (swamp coolers) work well, but only in low humidity environments. And they do have other drawbacks. Maintenance is required and if you have water leaks in the system it can flood your house. At one time, swamp coolers were widely used in West Texas. I doubt they are today. One house I had in Midland TX had a gas AC system. I never figured out exactly how it worked, but I did have frequent maintenance problems with it. Had I stayed in that house longer, I would certainly have replaced it.

The old Ice house I worked at back in 73 used amonia as a coolant to churn out those 300 pound blocks of ice . Trucks would pick them up each morning for distribution all over the city.
I also was guilty of increasing the carbon footprint since we used the CO2 extinguishers in the dorms to blast chill the beer

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Forum consigliere

I'll pay shipping

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Forum consigliere

I still have some chlordane somewhere. I would buy it when found at estate sales.

I’m not sure what was in this stuff. Dad used to pick it up at the Army-Navy surplus for 10 cents a bottle. All I remember is it smelled like heck, burnt my eyes, and kept the Deer flies off us. Too bad the label is ruined. I used to keep it in my tackle box.

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Waiting For The Sun.

I hate to tell ya, but when I rotated it, fiddled with it and did a lot of squinting, I think the label says "Dr. Phelps Magic Hair Restorer"

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

I was trying to find Laudanum on the label.

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Waiting For The Sun.

Looks like 6-12 bug repellent to me!

Sherman! Set the Wayback Machine!

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Music/Sports/Beer fan