With rising anmo cost, is there also a rising case for using reloads as SD ammo?

FYI

I searched Luckygunner, Cheaperthandirt, midwayusa, Simmons Sporting Goods, Cabelas and Academy.

Anywhere you find said ammo, if you find it, is going to amount to $50+ a box when you add up taxes and shipping

Just go online to Midway, order one 50# box of SIG 38 S&W Special 130gr fmj @ $18.69 (for practice or general use) and one 50# box of WINCHESTER 158gr lswc 38+P S&W Special @ $35.99, put in the FREE SHIPPING promo code CYBERFS49 and your total is $54.65.

Your results may vary since you may have LA sales taxes (?) to deal with, but I think you get the point. Well under "$50 per box" and these are both fine ammo choices, IMHO.

CHEERS & a Happy "cyber monday"!

P.S. To further clarify my recommendation, the WINCHESTER is more properly described as a "lhpswc" and, according to Ballistics 101 has the highest rated energy (278lbs @ 890fps) of all the WINCHESTER 38 S&W Special products they list(?)
 
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Imo, coct doent come I to play when talking SD ammo. Buy 100-150rds of quality jhp, test fire it, I am good with 50 trouble free rds, then 100rds for carry. Swap out your carry ammo annually, home ammo can go longer, should last you at least 2-3yrs. Practice with equiv ball ammo or teloads, no need to run handloads with oft inferior bullets, jmo.
 
So, there would be more liability issues using my hardened RNFP wheel weight bullet than a Remington soft lead hollow point?

That makes no sense at all. The latter is designed to do massive body damage while the former is designed to minimize body damage.

Until it over penetrates & injures innocents.
This gets debated all the time, bottom line, if you can articulate why your handloads were needed vs factory, go for it. There are instances where a handload is all you have.
 
IF you were involved in a shooting, and IF you were carrying reloads, it seems like it would be a good idea to discuss it with your attorney, and have a reasonable defense thought out. That would include bringing in all the records you've kept on your reloads, and proving that you weren't trying to make some type of "killer load".

I keep a Ruger Super Redhawk near the bed. It's loaded with a 200 gr. Speer Gold Dot at a reduced velocity. I could prove in a court of law that I actually reduced the velocity from a factory .44 Magnum.

Isn't this issue what they call an "urban myth"? Until I actually see a case, this is how I will regard it.

And if someone needs shootin', it really shouldn't matter what the ammo is.
 
Not really! I buy the defensive ammo of my choosing, practice with it just enough to prove to myself it's reliable, accurate and I can handle it, then just shoot just enough rounds a year to keep familiar with all its characteristics and POI. All other ammo shot out of the same SD firearm are my own hand loads or less expensive Factory offerings - and I reserve the expensive and sometimes difficult to get Factory stuff for carry purposes.

While "carry SD Factory ammo" has gotten more expensive it's still cheaper than paying a Lawyer another days pay to discredit the fake reasons you used hand loads instead of factory. You don't need another reason to defend yourself against a prosecuting Attorney trying to make you out as a "gun crazed killer" when all you did is defend yourself. In general, hand loads are frowned upon in a defense trail.
 
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PEOPLE SHOULD ALSO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THE IMAGE THEY PROJECT ON SOCIAL MEDIA. IT PROVIDES A RICH SOURCE OF INFORMATION, THAT IS READILY ACCESSIBLE, AND COULD BE USED AGAINST YOU.....


Truth! Social media is becoming a bigger part of analyzing a person's mental and emotional makeup. It is also becoming a tool for employers to further evaluate a potential new hire.
 
There are some good points in the posts above and some not so good points.

I agree your social media presence matters - your face book page and other social media will be used to make some assumptions about your character and your state of mind prior to the shooting. if you look like a gun nut looking for an excuse to shoot someone, don't be surprised when you get charged, even if your use of deadly force was both legal and necessary.

That also applies to how you dress. If you walk around in a punisher logo cap or t-shirt (or other similar themed clothing) with your instructor belt and tactical pants, scanning the area for threats like you're an operator downrange that will again create an impression on the witnesses (both in person and video) that you won't actually want to make in a police station, grand jury room, or court room.

Massad Ayoob has some good points, but I do not agree with him when it comes to the use of handloads for self defense. He cites exactly one case (where he was an expert witness for the defense) where hand loads were problematic. In that case, the defendant's wife shot herself and the ballistics testing didn't match physical evidence. The problem was that his wife shot herself with a low power handloaded .38 special target load, and the police seized his handloaded self defense load. The end result was that the very limited powder stippling on his wife's body, when compared with the results from his self defense loads, suggested the revolver was much farther away from his wife - so far that she should not have shot herself.

Ayoob make the point that there are forensic data bases for commercial manufactured ammo that can be used for comparative analysis. That's true and it's useful when you have a crime scene but no gun and no shooter in custody. The load can often be identified from the bullet and case, and the forensic data can then be used to determine things like shooting distance.

However, none of that would have made a difference in the case Ayoob cites as the police simply seized the wrong ammo for comparative testing and then once they formed an opinion that the guy was guilty, they stuck to it all the way to the courtroom. The defense had to get their own ex[pert and run their own tests to show the lower powered target load produced stippling consistent with the wife shooting herself. That's a potential all hand loaders face if they have more than one load using the same cases and bullets in the house and it has nothing to do with handloaded self defense ammo.

If you do use self defense ammunition, it makes sense to keep it separate from all your other ammunition (hand loaded or otherwise) so that the right ammunition can be obtained for analysis. You also always want to ensure the box is clearly marked and that there are sufficient rounds left in the box for analysis.

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As for using handloaded "self defense" ammo that the jury may feel you've tweaked to be "extra deadly", much of that perception is in how you've packaged it. Shooting a .38 +P+ load? That could be construed as wanting to exceed the deadliness of regular .38 and even .38 +P rounds.

However, you are most likely shooting a .38 +P+ load in a .357 Magnum revolver anyway. So just put the load in a .357 Magnum case and it's now a less than full power .357 Magnum load. If the prosecution tries to make an issue of you shooting a .357 Magnum, your attorney can counter that is much less powerful than commercial .357 Mag self defense loads and is in fact just your every day .357 Magnum load for general plinking and target purposes. 125 gr XTPs are relatively inexpensive and are known for superb accuracy - he doesn't have to bring up the fact that in that mid range .357 Magnum load, they are loaded to a velocity squarely in the middle of their expansion envelope where they give optimum penetration and expansion.

Consistent with that, don't label your former .38 +P+ load in a .357 Mag case as a "self defense load" label it as a medium power .357 Magnum load, date the box, and have it be the only partially empty box.

Your self defense load is now just your every day .357 Magnum practice and plinking load - that you so happen to carry for self defense purposes that came from that particular box, loaded on that particular date. The fact that you shoot this comparatively inexpensive handload on a regular basis in your conceal carry pistol supports that contention.

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More importantly however, you will actually be shooting this load on a regular basis and practice with your actual self defense load breeds a great deal of confidence if the time ever comes that you need it.

You'll also be cycling out your carry ammo on a regular basis. A friend of mine buys his self defense ammo and practices with other low end ammo. The problem with that is that he's never really sure his carry ammo cycles through this semi-auto as well as his practice ammo, and his carry ammo is extremely cruddy because he's carried the same ammo for months and years. It is truly the worst ammo he owns. But money is tight for him so he can't afford to replace it on anything close to a frequent enough basis. Buying top quality ammo for carry purposes is a mistake in his case. He'd be far better served with a well crafted handload.

----

Regardless of what ammo you use, the fact remains that the ammo you used, as long as it is legal in that jurisdiction (no hollow points in NJ, etc) won't turn a good shoot into a bad one, and using commercial self defense ammo or even the same ammo the police in your home town use, won't turn a bad shoot into a good one.

At best or worst, it may play some role in the decision whether a prosecutor or grand jury decides to charge you and even then it will be just one small piece in the total picture. I'd worry a lot more about that punisher cap, "Kill 'em all and let God sort them out" T-shirt, those tactical pants held up by that instructor belt, and the 52 rounds of ammo you brought to the fight in your 17+1 pistol and two spare mags, than I would the actual load you used. When 5 rounds is enough to solve an armed citizen self defense need 99.99 percent of the time, bringing 52 rounds to the fight looks like overkill and looks like you were looking for a fight in the first place.
 
When is this internet BS about handloads ever gonna go away .
About 20 or so years ago my shooting friend was on a jury for a murder case . The only details I remember him telling me about was that the weapon used was a Ruger .44 magnum loaded with handloads . I asked him if the handloaded ammo had any bearing on the trial . He said it was only mentioned once when the physical evidence was being presented to the jury and was never mentioned again during the rest of the trial .
I don’t know the outcome because at the time I wasn’t interested.
 
I would point out that (1) that's pretty anecdotal, and (2) the problems don't really occur when you're looking at a straight-up murder, but rather when you're making a claim of self-defense.

Like I said--there are some reasons not to do it, there are some reasons to do it. Me? I don't. But I can articulate some reasons why you might want to.

Here--which of the following three guys sounds the least serious about the prospect of using lethal force in self-defense?

(1) "Well sir, I knew I'd be counting on my firearm to function in a dire, life-or-death situation. It can't work if the ammunition is defective, and I've seen all sorts of ammunition fail due to manufacturing errors. For instance, primers that don't ignite because they're not fully-seated, or cartridges that don't have any powder, even in very expensive self-defense ammunition. These are problems that can have deadly consequences when you're fighting for your life, and it worried me greatly. Handloading my own defensive ammunition let me verify that each cartridge was properly-made. I used the same bullets--the projectile the gun fires--found in high-quality defensive ammo, and used a powder charge designed to match the velocity found in that ammo. I also used nickel-plated cases for corrosion resistance, and the same Federal primers used in self-defense and match ammunition."

(2) "I used handloaded ammunition because, according to my reading of [insert book title here] by [author], the jacketed hollowpoints used in most defensive ammunition aren't very effective in the relatively small and low-powered cartridge I was using. Jacketed roundnose ammunition, meanwhile, would be similarly ineffective, and likely to overpenetrate, which could be hazardous to bystanders. He also wrote that more effective ammunition, in addition to improving my own chances for survival, could be capable of stopping an attacker with fewer shots, improving their chances of survival as well. This made sense to me, as the whole point of self-defense is to prevent the loss of life. [Author] did extensive testing, and concluded that a soft, swaged lead hollowpoint semiwadcutter was ideal for the velocities this cartridge is capable of. Unfortunately, swaged LSWC-HP's just aren't available commercially, so I elected to load my own."

Side note, now the book this guy read is admissible as evidence. This is a good thing, presuming you're not reading idiot ninja books from guys that think Punisher grips are real cool.

(3) "Well, self-defense ammo is usually $0.50 to $1 a round. I wanted to save some money, so I handloaded my own."

Now--out of the three, who presented the best defense?

Even now, though, I'll be really even-handed. I think there is a case for reloading defensive ammo to save money.

"Well sir, I'm a man of limited means, so to speak. I bought my gun used to save money, and buddy gave me a holster he tried and didn't like. It was still a big expense, but we don't live in the best neighborhood, and I wanted to be able to protect my family. I know $36 for a box of ammo isn't a lot of money to most folks, but I'd have to replace the ammo in my carry gun three times a year--the humid weather gets into the powder, corrodes the case, and unloading the gun for regular cleaning wears out the chambered round. I did the math, and it'd wind up costing $100 a year. That's most of a week's groceries, or a pretty big chunk of Christmas. Deciding to handload defensive ammo for $8 a box...well, it was an easy decision."

Man, bust out the violin music for that guy.

And yes, I realize I just pissed off everyone in the forum by suggesting that handloading defensive ammunition was neither the worst idea in the world, but also not above criticism. Zero likes for me.
 
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Just wouldn't add up.

Tackling this from the opposite side of the fence. My personal range ammo tends to be lead bullets and fast powders (Titegroup). This gives me accurate, inexpensive, low recoil, pretty clean, target loads, in .38 and .44. To reload a premium grade SD load, I would be looking at buying a slower powder (like CFE Pistol), for this load only, and a hundred count box of XTP or Gold Dot. The cost would be much more than what I would be paying just buying a 20 or 25 count box of any well-regarded SD load, and even shipping from Lucky Gunner.

No, on cost grounds, I don't think this makes sense.
 
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It must remembered that Massad Ayoob was a working cop. Cops are subjected to a high level of scrutiny in any shooting situation and claims of unnecessary force are quite common. Adding hand-loaded ammunition to a police shooting is like handing the deed for your house to a lawyer.


Ayoob was a part time reserve officer for a city of about 2,500 people in New Hampshire. His involvement with deadly force incidents consists of reading reports and interviewing participants . . .
 
Tackling this from the opposite side of the fence. My personal range ammo tends to be lead bullets and fast powders (Titegroup). This gives me accurate, inexpensive, low recoil, pretty clean, target loads, in .38 and .44. To reload a premium grade SD load, I would be looking at buying a slower powder (like CFE Pistol), for this load only, and a hundred count box of XTP or Gold Dot. The cost would be much more than what I would be paying just buying a 20 or 25 count box of any well-regarded SD load, and even shipping from Lucky Gunner.

No, on cost grounds, I don't think this makes sense.

I don't agree with your assessment at all, from both effectiveness and cost perspectives.

In terms of effectiveness, I've had conversations like this before. They go something like this:

Me:"How long is that 25 round box of self defense ammo going to last?"

The other guy: "I just plan to carry it and never actually shoot it, unless you know, I need to in self defense"

Me: "So if you ever need to shoot in self defense, you are comfortable carrying and shooting self defense ammunition without ever verifying that it is reliable and performs well in your handgun?"

The other guy: "Well, it has great reviews...."

Me: How about practicing with your self defense load?"

The other guy: "We're at the range right? I practice every couple weeks with target loads.".

Me: "Do they have the same recoil impulse and point of impact as your self defense load?

The other guy: Well, no..."

Me: are you confident that you'll shoot your self defense loads as well as your target loads? Remember that you'll devolve to your lowest level of fully mastered training under extreme stress, and now you're adding ammunition that recoils differently and shoots to a different point of aim, on top of any other training shortfalls you may have."

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Using a single box of 25 rounds of premium self defense ammo might be a valid strategy if your "personal range ammo" has an almost identical recoil impulse, shoots to the same general point of aim. Some police departments do the same thing - issue a premium self defense hollow point for officers to carry, and then use a less expensive practice load that uses a load with the same point shape, weight, velocity and point of impact. But even then, the Department has usually tested the self defense load extensively in its issue handgun model(s), and the officers still usually qualify with the actual self defense load.

If you personally are shooting a semi-auto pistol, you need ensure that your practice load has the same point shape as your self defense load, is 100% reliable and demonstrates no set back issues in your pistol over at least 200 rounds of testing.

Even with a revolver you'll want to fire enough of your self defense rounds to ensure that the bullets don't back out under recoil (especially the last one or two) which could cause them to jam the cylinder and, worst case, also prevent a reload. You'll also want to ensure that the load doesn't create comparatively large pieces of unburned powder residue that might find it's way under the ejector star. Perhaps most importantly you'll need to confirm that the load isn't prone to light strikes in your revolver. You're probably looking at 50 rounds to meet that criteria.

So you're now looking at 3 boxes of 25 rounds, or around $75, for a revolver and around 9 boxes at around $225 for a pistol - if you want the assurance that it will function reliably.

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If you are using a fast powder and a lead bullet, that probably means a lower velocity target load, and it's unlikely to have the same recoil impulse, shoot to the same point of aim, or demonstrate the back out or set back characteristics in your handgun. That seriously degrades the value of your practice time.

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Let's look at my .357 Magnum hand loaded "self defense" loads. I'm using a Hornady 125 gr XTP on top of 9 grains of Unique that produces 1,300 fps in my 2 1/2" revolver (S&W 686+).

At that velocity the 125 gr XTPs give very reliable expansion along with penetration between 16" and 17" in ballistic gel, so the terminal ballistics are fine by FBI standards for expansion and penetration.

The recoil is much lighter with the 9 gr charge as compared to 20-21 grains of a colloidal ball powder like Win 296/H110 and I'm not losing any velocity compared to the slower burning powder, so I'm one up on most factory loads using similar slow burning powders optimized for 4" or 6" barrels.

Cost wise:

I pay $21.00 per 100 locally, or $17.40 per 100 plus shipping from Midsouth. One box or five boxes, shipping is the same at $10, so on line at five boxes per order, I'm paying $19 per 100. We'll use that for 19 cents per bullet.

I pay $22.00 per pound for Unique in a 1 pound can. I usually buy in 8 pound kegs at $150 or so for a cost of around $18.75 per pound but we'll use the $22 per pound cost. With a 9 grain charge that works out to 775 loads per pound, and 2.8 cents per load.

Primers cost me $31.00 per thousand at the local gun shows every 2-3 months, or 3.1 cents each.

I can get new Starline .357 Magnum brass for $89 per 500, or certified once fired cleaned and polished R-P .357 Magnum brass for $68 per 500. That's 17.8 cents per case for new brass, or 13.6 cents per case for certified once fired brass (which is just as reliable as new brass). I get at least 10 shots in a case before it has to be retired, so we'll estimate the reload brass cost at 1.8 cents per shot.

Consequently, my .357 Magnum loads used for practice in multiple fired cases cost me 26.7 cents per round, while my .357 Magnum loads in new brass cost me 42.7 cents each in new brass and 38.5 cents each in certified once fired brass.

In terms of costs for a box of 25 those per round figures equate to $6.68 per box in multiple reloaded brass, $9.63 in once fired brass and $10.68 in new brass.

I'll quite often buy Federal American Eagle or Federal Champion 158 gr JSP factory ammo when I find it locally in the $25 per box of 50 range as it shoots really well in my .357 lever guns and is a good hunting load. Then I'll use that once fired brass for my .357 Magnum revolver loads. At 50 cents per round, it's not much more expensive than my new brass .357 Magnum loads, but I count the once fired case as a freebee.

The end result is that for $75, I can shoot between 7 and 11.2 boxes of 25 rounds each - compared to just 3 or 4 boxes of 25 self defense loads.

That means:

1) I can afford to thoroughly test my "self defense" ammo;
2) I can afford to practice with it on a regular basis;
3) which makes it my "regular .357 Magnum range hand load", not a sounds-worse-in-court "self defense handload";
4) and also means I will shoot it much better if a self defense situation ever arises (unlikely, but confidence inspiring);
5) I can afford to cycle out my concealed carry ammo every range session so it's always fresh and not in fact the rattiest, dirtiest, most abused ammo I own, which is also confidence inspiring; and
6) each range session I am verifying that the load performs well in my handgun and that I shoot it well in my handgun, which is again confidence inspiring.
 
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Ayoob was a part time reserve officer for a city of about 2,500 people in New Hampshire. His involvement with deadly force incidents consists of reading reports and interviewing participants . . .
That's not entirely accurate. Gantham NH had about 500 people when he started in 1972 and it slightly less than doubled in population every 10 years until he retired in 2017 when the community has just under 3,000 residents. Consequently, it was significantly smaller than 2500 people for the majority of his part time law enforcement career.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that's really relevant.

For example, I had a friend who was an officer in a local police department He was a really nice guy and he had a really hot wife - I didn't mind inviting them on my boat on weekends. On the other hand in his community of about 70,000 (not counting suburbs) he managed to be involved in 3 of the 4 total officer involved shootings over an 18 month period. They were ruled good shoots, but all three shoots were questionable (more so the last two) and the last two were shoots that could have been avoided or handled in a non lethal manner. He also has the distinction of being the only public safety diver to ever put me at extreme risk under water, after he experienced a fairly minor failure. That tendency toward panic may or may not have played a role in the first two shoots

Despite his "excitability" and apparent tendency to panic, after the second shoot my opinion was that after the first shoot he started looking for opportunities to shoot. After the third shoot, where he actively went looking for trouble in a dark alley in the middle of the night, the Department agreed and parked him behind a desk.

I transferred to the east coast shortly after and I have no idea what happened to him later in his career. However, despite and in fact because of his experience with the use of lethal force, he's about the last person I'd recommend to train other officers in the use of lethal force.

My point here is that shooting your service weapon in the line of duty isn't a necessary or sufficient condition to qualify you to instruct on the use of lethal force. It doesn't even sufficiently address how well you react when faced with a minimum legal justification to shoot, at least in terms of whether that legal justification is also accompanied by an actual need to shoot.

Would it be nice to know how Massad Ayoob reacts under the extreme stress that accompanies an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury? Absolutely, but it has no real bearing on the value of what he's learned through the analysis of a large number of officer involved shoots, or his ability to teach it.

To be fair, he has been a firearms and self defense instructor for both police and private citizens since 1974. He's apparently good enough at and well enough regarded to remain gainfully employed, so it's a bit presumptive to dismiss him and what he has to say based on his status as a part time LEO in a small town.

I take what he says at face value. There are things he says that I agree with and there are things he says that I don't agree with, but I'm not going to slam him based on his employment working in a small police department.

In the case of handloaded self defense ammo, I think that his opinion reflects a common attorney bias toward giving the most defensible answer when asked about potential legal liability, even when that answer may conflict with other aspects of real world practice. That may well stem from his experience as vice chairman of the forensic evidence committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.
 
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He is an expert at self marketing, that is really what he should be teaching.
 
Ayoob was a part time reserve officer for a city of about 2,500 people in New Hampshire. His involvement with deadly force incidents consists of reading reports and interviewing participants . . .

Consider about 75% of all leo never use their gun in the line of duty over 20y careeer, I see little diff. It is about mindset & knoweledge to stay out of a fight. Small town or big city, not playing it right still gets you into a fight. Just might be a few more opportunities in urban zones? I've read his stuff, shot with him at a nationals event, solid guy. Probaly as solid as those 75% of keo that never get into a gunfight.
 
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No, there is not. If you are involved in a shooting, you do not want the extra jeopardy of having used reloads. Use reloads for practice and keep your self defense loads in a separate magazine. Use that magazine for when you carry the gun.
 
Wise's well-crafted defenses should be proof enough that any of those answers can work . . . and any can fail. It depends on the audience and the ambiance.

IOW, the ammo in the above "cases" isn't gonna be the major factor turning you from defender to killer.

So maybe the best advice is to look into a mirror very carefully before choosing your ammo lol.
 
Sorry to be late to the discussion, but I think I can clarify a few points in this thread.
As to the cost/benefit analysis, it should probably be taken into account that if the handloads do become an issue in a court case, the defendant can expect legal fees of +/- $500 per hour. This would certainly validate the wise advice of many in the thread: factory ammo for defense use, handloaded duplicates for practice and training.
Yes, it has come up in court. The “regular bullets weren’t deadly enough” “indication of malice” argument came up strongly in NH v. James Kennedy. A greater concern in my opinion is forensic replicability of gunshot residue testing to determine disputed distance. This was a cornerstone of the prosecution’s case in NJ v. Daniel Bias, the failed suicide intervention one poster has already mentioned.
What people need to understand is that when such matters are disputed, the tie-breaker is the hard science of forensic evidence. For this type of GSR testing, this requires exemplar evidence, in this case test ammo identical to that which was in the gun. The problem with handloads, as in the Bias case, is that the other side can keep it out with the powerful argument, “The Court can’t accept that, your Honor; the defendant literally manufactured the evidence!” In Bias, this kept out testing of the super-light handloads the defendant maintained he kept in the death weapon. In only one of his three trials did the other side concede to any handloads coming in, and according to one of his attorneys, it was a handload taken from the scene other than the load Bias said was in the revolver. The three trials resulted in a compromise verdict of manslaughter, the defendant serving several years in prison and becoming a convicted felon for life, bankrupted by legal fees before the end of his first trial.
Handloads did not prove to be economical in that case.
On my end, a couple of folks here have pointed out that I have been a part-time cop. My 40+ years in that capacity (8 as patrolman in the first department, 2 as sergeant and 6 as lieutenant in the second, and 27 as a captain in the third) are something I proudly enjoyed, but I do not claim any expertise on handloads from that. However, as BB57 noted, I served for two years as co-vice chair of the forensic evidence committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Attorneys. In addition, I’ve spent 39 years as an expert witness in weapons and homicide cases, have taken many homicide/OIS investigation courses and taught a few of the latter, and have taken and taught a number of CLE courses related to self-defense cases for practicing attorneys. That, plus 19 years as chair of the firearms/deadly force training committee for American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers and 14 years on the advisory board of the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers association, have put me in contact with a great many attorneys and police instructors and investigators. That has taught me that your chances of getting forensic GSR testing accepted to prove disputed distance in a shooting WITH HANDLOADS is EXTREMELY poor, and no police department I’m aware of currently allows its officers to carry handloads.
These things might be called clues…
 
I have been a handloader for years, since at least 1978. I got into handloading simply because members of my family handloaded, and cast thier own bullets. I produce much much more accurate rounds for my firearms than anything Ive ever purchased off the shelf, including the very expensive "match grade" ammo. That was the big "draw" for me, accuracy. Even though at the time I loved saving money as all us shooters complained about the factory ammo cost, almost as bad a farmer complain about grain prices and rain. Quite frankly I don't purchase factory ammo except for a couple calibers I rarely shoot or rimfire stuff. I recently brought a large amount of surplus 5.56 to feed my AR because it was actually cheaper than I could load it for-Black Friday special got me 500 rounds for $129 with free shipping, so I got 3000 rounds. That figures out to just under .26 cents a round. And I can reload the empty brass if I choose.
I really believe in practicing with the same ammo you are going to carry. I never brought into the idea that one could practice with say a 22LR , or better a 38 special and carry a 357 mag. And expect to be proficient with the more powerful weapon. I do however believe one should be proficient with his carry weapon with the ammo one carries, if your are going to carry. For me this require much range time and the use of much ammo. I mean really, if you are needing to defend yourself or your family or for that matter a complete stranger I personally would n't care weather it was my hand load or factory ammo going down the pipe. I personally can't see legally what difference it would make, dead is dead. In my mind the greatest danger from reloaded ammunition is most likely to the shooter. I've seen many guns blow up in shooters hands because of a problem reload. Even blew one gun up myself. As far as factory ballistics, stopping power and all that other good stuff the factories like to use sell us on the latest greatest "killing wonder" ammo, I don't give a **** you can can make as bad *** ammo as anything else, right at home, or darn close, dead is dead.
That's my two cents. Remember it is only my opinion (everybody has one) and it was all free of charge.
 
I'm of the belief that the "SD reloads" is 99.9% "Internet wisdom" (ie. factless, rumored old wive's tales). I have yet seen heard, read any case of a shooter being prosecuted for using handloads to protect himself or family. I have seen this subject for as long as I have been on forums on line, since 2008. Never a definitive answer, just mostly speculation and no facts. I use handloads in my 9mms, 45 ACP and 7.62x39 self defense ammo for mebbe 30 years, in a big city, suburban, and small town environment and have never heard, read or seen any reference to the issue, ever...

If, and that's a big if, I was concerned about trouble from protecting myself, what would a couple bucks mean?
 
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