CCW with a security holster?

Greetings! I have a minor dilemma. I inadvertently received a level 2 holster for my P365. I personally can't visualize carrying a CCW pistol in a level 2. I know that most of the competitions that I enter don't allow holsters with a retention device. After experiencing the Shoot House at Sig last year, I feel that it would hinder a rapid draw.

Does anyone on the Forum CCW any pistol in a Level 2 holster?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away leather holsters with thumb snaps were very common for carry. It entirely depends on if the retention adds any builk to the holster that could make it more difficult to conceal.

Speed is within just a few tens of a second different between a retention holster and a slick holster.

Just cut it off.

For a Police duty holster a level 2 makes sense. For a private individual for concealed carry it does not! Any delay caused by a retention device could mean the difference between life and death. Just make sure your gun/holster is really concealed so a potential enemy would not be able to see it and be tempted to try to steal the gun from you!

For my CCW purposes, friction is the only retention device I desire.

I believe in keeping an EDC holster thin, stiff and simple to the point of no snaps, no straps, no screws, no velcro, no retention options, nothing but a properly made, properly fit holster for that specific model. There are usually many differences between EDC/CCW and competition holsters and IMO should not be mixed up for convenience.

My personal choice for my Micro 9, P365 is a Kramer Horsehide OWB belt scabbard. It checks all the boxes for me.

lrrifleman said:

Greetings! I have a minor dilemma. I inadvertently received a level 2 holster for my P365. I personally can't visualize carrying a CCW pistol in a level 2. I know that most of the competitions that I enter don't allow holsters with a retention device. After experiencing the Shoot House at Sig last year, I feel that it would hinder a rapid draw.

Does anyone on the Forum CCW any pistol in a Level 2 holster?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

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If its inhibiting in way you can't train around, you may have answered you're own question.
Can you be more specific as to the retension?
I've always thought of level 2 as meaning 2 methods of securing - especially against an attempt by a bad guy/gal from grabbing the pistol out of the holster. Apparently that's not right, and nor is the definations universally agreed upon.
What is Holster Retention and What Are Retention Levels?

I'll say from my EDC needs, often a positive retension method is needed. Thumb-snap over the hammer is great and relatively fast for me - on revolver with a hammer - and a holster that is not form fitted so as to stay with the gun during the initial part of the draw. I have a Roy's, a Davis, and a couple of Don Hume's in this catagory. That doesn't help you per se, but just to point out that a positive retension device can be important for some of us due to our typical activities.

lrrifleman said:

Greetings! I have a minor dilemma. I inadvertently received a level 2 holster for my P365. I personally can't visualize carrying a CCW pistol in a level 2. I know that most of the competitions that I enter don't allow holsters with a retention device. After experiencing the Shoot House at Sig last year, I feel that it would hinder a rapid draw.

Does anyone on the Forum CCW any pistol in a Level 2 holster?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, which pistol competition formats don’t allow retention devices?

I know some rules ban specific forms (such as the infamous Serpa), but I’m not aware of any generalized ban.

I sometimes carry my M649 in an OWB that has a retention strap. I only do it on one special occasion and only because I'll be driving for almost two hours. Otherwise, no retention other than friction for all of my EDC-CCW holsters.

Just a side note:

Some Departments required all holsters to have a retention device.

I believe thats why you still see snap-top concealment holsters.

CCW and competition are two vastly different things. In competition, the gun is unloaded until you're on the firing line. That's why the security on comp holsters is minimal.

I've been carrying a gun daily for 20 years, and I would never do so without a thumb strap. Friction fit isn't going to keep that gun where it needs to be if you trip and fall. There's no harm in the extra security. As with any holster, you should practice your draw until you can do it without overt thought. Essentially muscle memory.

mscampbell2734 said:

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away leather holsters with thumb snaps were very common for carry. It entirely depends on if the retention adds any builk to the holster that could make it more difficult to conceal.

Speed is within just a few tens of a second different between a retention holster and a slick holster.

Click to expand...

A level two holster isn't just a THUMB snap.

When I worked for G4S they gave me a level two Safariland 6285


I'm pretty sure it was this one.

A lot of what they had me checking was electrical substations out in the middle of nowhere. Most of them the perimeter fence was a mile around. (I lost 20 pounds on that job) Since there wasn't anyone else around , I walked around the substations at 2:00 in the morning practicing my four point draw.

I would be willing to bet that I drew that gun more than 100 times a night.

One night I was getting in my car in the parking lot and somebody down at the end of the parking lot fired a shot. I have no idea what happened but I hit the ground and then I realized that I drawn my gun.

So I know you can practice so you can get the gun out pretty quick but I never had to do it with a level 2 retention holster under concealment

I've carried with a thumb break holster on duty, off and retired for 52 years. It's just as fast as an open holster, it you train with it. In 1987 we moved to Sig's and a level three security holster. The guys who were competent shooters to begin with trained seriously and had no problems. Those who were ah, less skilled, whined about it and didn't practice. No big deal it was unlikely they would hit anything anyway. I know that's mean but, truthful.

As a retired geezer I don't expect to be fighting and rolling around on the ground anymore. But I still want the minimum security of a thumb snapped holster. Intense training and informal practice breeds competent shooters.

Also recognize the difference between range toys and defense weapons. As well as the difference in holster and ammunition for the two. Mixing up the two make lawyers happy.

Borderboss said:

CCW and competition are two vastly different things. In competition, the gun is unloaded until you're on the firing line. That's why the security on comp holsters is minimal.

I've been carrying a gun daily for 20 years, and I would never do so without a thumb strap. Friction fit isn't going to keep that gun where it needs to be if you trip and fall. There's no harm in the extra security. As with any holster, you should practice your draw until you can do it without overt thought. Essentially muscle memory.

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I have been carrying a handgun for just shy of 50 years now. For the first 30 years I carried a K frame and then a J Frame revolver and used a holster with a retention strap and snap and some even with a screw to adjust tension. I also used what I considered to be high quality and even some custom holsters. There were occasions that I did have the snap pop open and the strap became somewhat useless when that happens. IMO there is nothing worse than a false sense of security when a retention system or aid has failed (unknowingly) and come undone. BTW, these were holsters made of Cowhide. I did not like relying on a snap to retain my gun and have retention compromised by it opening up unintentionally. Friction is one thing and a proper custom fit is another.

Finally after many years I discovered Kramer's Horsehide Belt Scabbards and had one custom made for my J Frame. There are zero extra retention devises and the holster relies on he stiff horsehide and precise fit to retain the gun. Kramer's horsehide has a fit that I equate almost to Kydex and the pistol actually snaps into place when the pistol is inserted. I used that holster for 14 years and after that time the holster still maintains positive retention even when in an upside down position. The gun will not fall out - period. It also allows for a smooth fast draw when you need it with nothing to undo when needed in a hurry.

6 years ago I transitioned to a Sig P365 and I immediately ordered a Kramer Horsehide OWB scabbard for that as well. When I am not carrying the Sig in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster (about 50% of the time)I am still using the Kramer Horsehide. It holds the pistol in place just like Kydex and has no additional retention devises - just a perfect fit in a stiff Horsehide holster. That is why I am constantly touting Kramer's products - they simply work! I have no associating with Kramer or his company and don't get a penny from anything he sells. I am just a very discriminating individual that takes CCW/EDC seriously and will not compromise by relying on a system's weak point that can fail. I always say "to each his own" and I only report positively on things I have found to be exceptional by personally testing them in real world use over a long time. BTW, back before I discovered Kramer's products I had never trusted a similar Cowhide holster and truly believe the Horsehide is more than just hype - the difference is quite real. Again, I am not trying to covert anyone here who is content with their current holster - just saying what I have done and have learned over the years. I guess that is why Baskin Robins makes 52 flavors - everyone likes a different one.

Put me in the group of those who've never heard of any type of competition that bans holsters with any type of retention device. I do expect that the majority opinion is that they slow you down too much. However, competition results sometimes depend upon fractions of a second that don't matter in the real world. Even accumulations over several stages. In the real world, quick draw is highly over rated.

If foggy memory is still working, level 2 retention generally means both friction-hopefully adjustable-and some sort of retention strap/hood. One question is how is the strap released? As noted above, a thumb operated strap/hood can be quickly released with appropriate training and practice, but does seem a bit much unless you're quite active while carrying. If you're really concerned and haven't used the holster, try to return it for something more suitable.

The only "issue" I ever had with a level 2 holster was our last issue duty holster shifted my gun hand position just enough to release the hood that I couldn't shoot with both thumbs forward (I'd get slide stop early). In retirement with a properly tensioned holster (that grips the front of the trigger guard), my gun hand could move outboard just enough to allow thumbs forward. I didn't even realize the difference in hand positions until I tried having the thumbs forward.

Level two retention holster that I got from Safariland required me to flip the hood off the gun and push down on a locking lever to get the gun out of the holster. I had to do two things to release the gun

The 6280 series I mentioned above, you had to push down on the hood release rather firmly and the spring loaded hood pivoted out of the way. Not really an issue and all one motion.

I used to carry in a leather holster made by Don Hume, model #H721OT. They are great holsters and as the model # kind of indicates, OT stands for Open Top. I learned how to sublimate and then learned how to make Kydex holsters. I combined those two things and made holsters for myself and a few others. All with the same design characteristic, retention is through fit only, no other devices included. I’m not “super fast” on the draw. Around 1 second from open carry, about 1.5sec for concealed draw.
P.S. I turn 70 in February…..

Apparently I need to clarify. I received an unordered holster that I think is a level 2, that has push button trigger guard retention. The matches that I typically participate in that require a holstered pistol are USPSA an, GPA, and the occasional IDPA matches. I also participate in Adaptive Defensive Shooting Summit events geared for physically challenged competitors. It is the ADSS matches that prohibit holsters with the retention devices.

lrrifleman said:

Apparently I need to clarify. I received an unordered holster that I think is a level 2, that has push button trigger guard retention. The matches that I typically participate in that require a holstered pistol are USPSA an, GPA, and the occasional IDPA matches. I also participate in Adaptive Defensive Shooting Summit events geared for physically challenged competitors. It is the ADSS matches that prohibit holsters with the retention devices.

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Is it of the “Serpa” type?