.45ACP Roll Crimp?

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haggis

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After a lot of searching on several forums, I still don't have an answer to this question, so I thought I'd ask here.

I shoot 200 grain .45ACP RNFP in my model 625 because the rounded bullet nose decreases my reload times. Chambers on the gun are highly chamfered (think small funnels). I have about 3000 200 grain SWC bullets that I used to use in my 1911s. They do not work well in the 625 because the edges hang up on the chamber mouths. I've done some experimentation with heavy taper crimp at the sharp forward edge of the bullet, and it improves things somewhat - it only takes a bit of wriggling to get the moon-clipped rounds to drop in.

Thus my question - if I apply a heavy roll crimp over the front edge of the bullet, will that round things up enough to prevent the cartridges from hanging up on the chamber entrances? I'm not concerned with the loss of headspace capability at the front of the cartridge - these will be revolver-only. RCBS makes a .45ACP roll crimp die that's fairly inexpensive, so I will probably get one and try it, unless I get some information from you folks that it won't work.

I appreciate any comments.

Buck
 
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About the only bullet I have found that reloads in my 625 I compete with is a 230 grain roundnose. These drop right in with no wiggling at all. Everything else I tried, especially 200 grain swc's hung up on the chamber edges and mine has been tuned and the cylinders chamfered too. I'm going to use the swc's in light 45 Colt loads.
 
Basically,RN and TC bullets are for speedloading and clip loading.
SWC and clip loading don't mix, no matter how much you fiddle and fool.
 
The bullet diameter is less than the roll crimp diameter, so you can crimp them till the cows come home and it won't make a difference.
 
How about simply seating those 200gr.SWC's cutting edge flush with the case. Taper crimp at .469-.470 and be done with it. If these clipped rounds don't drop in as smoothly as you like, you will probably have to settle for a round-nose style bullet. I generally don't think much of folks putting any roll crimp on bullets that do not have cannelures. I even use a Redding taper crimp die to crimp 148gr HBWC's for bullseye shooting in a K-38. I get into these debates with other bullseye shooters that use a "light" roll crimp for their HBWC rounds. I maintain: NO CANNELURE.......NO ROLL CRIMP!...........all this does in a low velocity, soft lead target load is deform the bullet. Guess who holds the local club record in the monthly Harry Reeves match?
 
Roll crimps are for revolver rounds, period. If you want to try it, go ahead. The worst thing you will do is waste a bit of time and effort. Besides, playing is fun.

I have shot PPC for a few years. Scoring can be a pain when you use RN bullets. I remember the guy that was the big dog of the block when I started giving me a berating for using them when I first started. I watched him. He was using SWC and at 70 he could still beat me (40ish) at the 7 yard line in both score and time!

12 rounds in 18 seconds all double action with LSWC bullets. I figured if that old man could do it, so could I. All I needed was some practice. Guess what, after a few weeks and a lot of loading with dummy rounds, of course from speed loaders, and I was getting 12 rounds off, with a score of 120 in about 14 seconds. You have to go faster than that?

I doubt it.

Try other moon clips that hold the rounds tighter. Practice, practice, practice. If your chambers are already "funneled" everything should be OK with a SWC too.

I like the idea of taper crimping these at the end of the driving band better than a roll crimp for the reasons others have mentioned.

FWIW
 
Due to varying brass case lengths crimping over the front shoulder / edge of the bullet will be a variable also but it doesn't hurt to try. Use up and diddle with them or sell / trade the SWC and get TC or RN.
 
I'm not necessarily recommending the procedure, but I've tried roll crimping and it works fine with .45 ACP revolver or semi-auto loads. It's certainly best to limit roll crimping to bullets with a crimp groove. I'd try both roll crimp and taper crimp and go with whatever is most accurate, that is if you can see a difference. I've seen (very slightly) better accuracy with a taper crimp.

Roll crimping .45 ACP used to be a lot more popular than it is today. I used to have a Star press set up for .45 ACP that came only with a roll crimp.

The well known 1911 gunsmith and Bullseye competitor Alton Dinan wrote a very comprehensive article in the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN in the mid-'60s (I think) about accuracy loads for the .45 ACP using roll crimped ammo (I think he tried some taper crimped also) and tested everything for accuracy at 50 yards.

Some may criticize the roll crimp procedure without ever having tried it. It's worth trying before condeming roll crimps. My only suggestion would be to use a minimal crimp whether roll crimping or taper crimping.
 
If you are using them in moon clips, you don't have to worry about headspace issues as the clip is setting the headspace, not the case mouth. Try seating the SWC so that the forward ledge is just at the case mouth then roll away. That will give you a little roundness on the case mouth to help it funnel in. Of course those rounds will probably seat too deeply in a pistol chamber to work properly and they probably won't work in your 625 if you're trying to load them individually without any kind of clip. I used to roll crimp for my 625 but I started using a Lee taper crimp die and it seems to work just about as good when it comes to speed reloads. I think YMMV with that but it's a good option if it works for you. I eventually gave all of that up and went with auto rim cases and speed loaders and haven't looked back.
 
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I taper crimp ALL revolver rounds, and always have. For 40 years. Never had problems with bullets in adjacent chambers telescoping out under recoil. Taper crimping makes variations in case largely irrelevant.
As for the gun, try chamfering the chamber mouths a very small amount AFTER removing the extractor star from the gun/cylinder. You do not want to mess with that (the star ).
 
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RMFnLA said:
I still don’t get ACP in a revolver, especially if one reloads…
Click to expand...

Goes all the way back to WWI. As I understand it they couldn't produce enough 1911's fast enough so they got S&W and Colt to produce large-frame revolvers that used the same ammo as the 1911.

FWIW, some people like 9mm in revolvers for pretty much the same reason - cheap ammo compatible with both revolvers and semi-autos.
 
BC38 said:
Goes all the way back to WWI. As I understand it they couldn't produce enough 1911's fast enough so they got S&W and Colt to produce large-frame revolvers that used the same ammo as the 1911.

FWIW, some people like 9mm in revolvers for pretty much the same reason - cheap ammo compatible with both revolvers and semi-autos.
Click to expand...
That's all true, but you forgot the comma after the words "understand it." When combining two independent clauses with a conjunction, you're supposed to also use a comma. It just makes reading your post easier if you don't have run on sentences.

Just sayin... ;)
 
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Pisgah said:
Yes, and in a revolver the .45 ACP round headspaces on the case mouth. Do not roll-crimp.
Click to expand...

Only if they are being loaded individually. If they are in a clip, the headspace is determined by the clip and the rim. In that instance, case length/crimp doesn't matter.
 
tdan said:
How about simply seating those 200gr.SWC's cutting edge flush with the case. Taper crimp at .469-.470 and be done with it. If these clipped rounds don't drop in as smoothly as you like, you will probably have to settle for a round-nose style bullet. I generally don't think much of folks putting any roll crimp on bullets that do not have cannelures. I even use a Redding taper crimp die to crimp 148gr HBWC's for bullseye shooting in a K-38. I get into these debates with other bullseye shooters that use a "light" roll crimp for their HBWC rounds. I maintain: NO CANNELURE.......NO ROLL CRIMP!...........all this does in a low velocity, soft lead target load is deform the bullet. Guess who holds the local club record in the monthly Harry Reeves match?
Click to expand...

Heck you could roll crimp the LSWCs the same way. I’ve certainly done that for revolvers, .38 Special and .45 ACP.

FWIW the Redding Profile Crimp Die more or less combines a taper crimp with a very controllable roll crimp. Might be worth a try.
 
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