S&W Old Russian 3, Ludwig Loewe

Afghan war trophy ?

Being found in Estonia I have a feeling it may have been a war trophy from the Afghan war in the 1980's. It looks like it has had some Khyber work done. I think Tula even made a few of these back in the 1880's. That is why S&W lost the contract. It could have been dropped or thrown out with a blown cylinder in the Russo Turkish war 1877-78 then picked up and rebuilt for local use. I have a friend in Gruzya who has an original S&W version he found there.
Don't be surprised finding guns in the Baltics. There is the old joke: Lithuanian farmers oil their fields so the guns don't rust!
 
Thanks Vytautas, this is one most possible way this gun travelled to EST from middle east (if it is from there) :)
 
Noca, Welcome to the Forum, and thanks for the nice photos of a genuine Ludwig Loewe. Your experience with these guns and the copies is very similar to mine here in the USA, although I still think Anubis007's gun is a copy, not a heavily modified Ludwig Loewe. As you say, there are no remains of any of the markings seen on a Loewe. The truth is it's all lost in time, of course. I hope to see more posts by you, as input from European collectors is very helpful to those of us in the US. Ed.
 
Ed, thank you, I will be very happy to join in where possible, on this if you have a look at the link originally published at the top of the thread, I was working off the picture with the barrel address and proofs, albeit a worn example. Album.ee

I very much enjoy my visits to the US, I have my sights on a Ist Model Ist Pattern Russian commercial with the star beneath the barrel, a Russian contract reject, if I get it I will be sure to post it on the forum
Regards
David
 
David, What I didn't see in the Album.ee picture of the barrel stampings was the serial number, as seen at the breech end the barrel rib, on original Ludwig Loewes, and on the Tula Arsenal guns. Also the barrel rib stamping is lacking the last part of the Cyrillic stamping, as shown in the SCSW, 3rd edit., page 97. Missing those features, are some of the me the convincing factors to me that the gun is a copy.
Good luck on the Russian commercial you are watching. That "star" stamp has always been somewhat of a mystery to us. It may indicate a reject, but S&W records can't verify that. Ed.
 
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I never looked in the album before my first post. This is definitely a modified original, Lowe. The barrel inscription is correct, if you look closely at the end of what is legible you can see the line that forms the beginning of the G in Germaniye. Then you have the P proof in front of the sight. The area with the Germaniye, serial number and eagle is heavily worn. Probably intentionally, If this gun was blown and dropped and went to the opposite side the first thing to go would be the Imperial eagle and serial. The front lanyard was likely added with the cylinder work. A copy would not have the Russian P mark in front of the sight this would have been stamped at the same time as the Eagle. The Russian letter b stamps are also interesting.
 
Thanks Ed, I keep hanging in on the 'star' it has been on hold for someone for a year .I have just bought a second Cyrillic Russian, 1st Model 1st contract without the strenghtening on the frame for the trigger pin,same as the 1st Model American frame, I might put that up on a seperate post. The first 5000 were of this type, but rarely found in the US or Europe.
I think that I must agree with the last post, I think the number has been scrubbed, and it is badly worn. Most fakes of the cyrillic No3 come from the middle east or Afghanistan, as such the cyrillic characters are either back to front, or in fact characters than non Europeans think are cyrillic. In this case the cyrillics are correct.
As for the rest, it would be easier to ID with better pics, the butt S/no is in the wrong place as well
David
 
vytautus said:
Being found in Estonia I have a feeling it may have been a war trophy from the Afghan war in the 1980's. It looks like it has had some Khyber work done. I think Tula even made a few of these back in the 1880's. That is why S&W lost the contract. It could have been dropped or thrown out with a blown cylinder in the Russo Turkish war 1877-78 then picked up and rebuilt for local use. I have a friend in Gruzya who has an original S&W version he found there.
Don't be surprised finding guns in the Baltics. There is the old joke: Lithuanian farmers oil their fields so the guns don't rust!
Click to expand...


haha i love that quote, my girlfriend is from kaunas so this makes me laugh!
 
The rule in Kaunas is there are no rules. It is my favorite town in Lithuania. If you know the right people in that country you can get what ever you want. I was offered a fully operational Maxim for 1000 US. I passed for obvious reasons. Some Governor in Belarus was trying to sell it and a Sturmgeschutz III Nazi tank. The tank was pulled out of a lake in Northern Belerus. It and 5 other tanks, were in a battle, in winter, and chased each other, on to a frozen lake, and crashed through the ice. It was amazing the tank still had its paint and skeletal crew. I think he sold it to a collector in Germany finally. The stuff that pops up there is amazing. When I was in Vilnius, there was a guy from Siauliai, selling Napoleonic musket relics he dug up at the market.
 
Hi again :)

I´ve been away for long time now. When I returned I was very exited that probably there is some clarity about this piece by now :)
But I´m still not sure is it original (badly worn) or copy and what could be it´s approximate value in US market for example?

If this is a copy I will probably sell it, but if original I will keep it (but it is good to know approx value anyway - because I exchanged it more than 10 yrs ago for German WWII belt buckle).
 
hi,
I'm another one from Estonia.

Mine looks to be an original S&W Russian. It has Smith & Wesson stamped in Cyrillic on the top of the barrel. It's been wrapped in a rag so it's seen rust but the bore is shiny and the action keen.

I wonder if these guns ever found use in the Old West? You meet them sometimes in western movies but I never saw one on a historic photo. It was a good gun although the cartridge was not as powerful as the one used in Peacemakers, I've been told.
 

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With the recent revival of this thread, I thought I'd help out and link to Anubis007's album pictures, referenced in the original post. Album.ee It's always a lot easer if the pics can be viewed in the thread itself. Note that these are Anubis007's pictures, not mine!

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I hope his picture host site can stand the additional traffic!
 
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