UPDATE! -- Oddball 38/44

Mr. Jinks' letter arrived today. The gun was one of 12 shipped to H. H. Harris in 1960 as a pre-20--there is no model number inside the crane, even though the Model 20 appeared three years before.

Apparently H. H. Harris ordered a lot of S&Ws, so I'm going to assume that Chicago cops must have been regular customers.

Why the guns were ordered without ejector rod shrouds is still as much of a mystery as it ever was.

ORIGINAL POST BELOW:

I purchased a 95% 38/44 at a gun show on Saturday. I was so excited by the condition that I completely forgot one thing:

There is no ejector rod shroud.

And the gun is finished in bright blue.

The serial number, in the 156,000 range, puts is as being a 1956 gun, so just on the cusp of the Model 20's arrival.

This one is five screw, and did I mention that it's really, really pretty? I'm going to go ahead and get it lettered by S&W, but until then, anybody have any ideas how this one came about? A helpful soul here on the forum tells me he's identified one other in this configuration, and the serial number of that one is a bare 16 numbers away from mine. So either it's a special order, or someone went to an incredible amount of trouble to rebarrel a really nice piece.

All numbers match, by the way: frame, cylinder, and barrel.

All help appreciated.

HD

Is the barrel numbered?

Yep...

m-1911 said:

Is the barrel numbered?

Click to expand...

Yep, sure is.

And so are the grips (which look virtually new, with no sign of refinishing or other mucking about).

I like it a lot

My first impression is that the shroud has been milled away. No idea why, but that's how it looks to me. The barrel contour on the underside does not look right to me for a standard unshrouded barrel (of which there were none for the 38/44). The modified front sight blade proves it's been worked on and I am pretty sure cutting the shroud was part of the deal.

The beautiful reblue job was likely done at the same time. A very competent smith apparently did the work.

How about a few very close-up photos of the barrel from both sides ?

Jerry

SP,
The gun is correct in all respects and left the factory as seen in the picture.
Bill

1Aspenhill said:

SP,
The gun is correct in all respects and left the factory as seen in the picture.
Bill

Click to expand...

Could you expand on that a bit? I for one would love to hear the story behind it.

Dave

1Aspenhill said:

SP,
The gun is correct in all respects and left the factory as seen in the picture.
Bill

Click to expand...

Bill,
I'm not doubting you and granted, you would know before me, but how do you know that? If so this would be an ultra rare gun and Leland would have really pulled a big fish out of a local gun show!
Many

LelandRay,

Welcome to the Forum. I'm glad you showed up here with your new find. I'm confident that you've uncovered a fairly rare HD and will look forward to the results you will eventually hear from Roy Jinks.

Best Regards,

Jerry

SaxonPig said:

The barrel contour on the underside does not look right to me for a standard unshrouded barrel (of which there were none for the 38/44). The modified front sight blade proves it's been worked on and I am pretty sure cutting the shroud was part of the deal.

Click to expand...

I would really hesitate to make these comments when an unshrouded .38 HD is right there in front of you. The short-action hammer and front sight style are completely correct for a gun made in the time frame the SN would indicate.

Very easily could be a special order gun, or a barrel forging for a 1950 Military or Army could have been mistakenly bored .38 and it was used. If there is at least one other reported it is possible several were done, mistakenly or otherwise, or it was a market test to see if a dying model could possibly be resurrected by lightening it up a bit. The shroud was hardly needed to provide extra weight on this gun as it was used for on the other Magnum N-Frames. I wonder if any N-Frame would ever have been made with a shroud if W&K hadn't ordered the 3rd Model .44 HE with this feature.

Alk8944 said:

SaxonPig said:

The barrel contour on the underside does not look right to me for a standard unshrouded barrel (of which there were none for the 38/44). The modified front sight blade proves it's been worked on and I am pretty sure cutting the shroud was part of the deal.

Click to expand...

I would really hesitate to make these comments when an unshrouded .38 HD is right there in front of you. The short-action hammer and front sight style are completely correct for a gun made in the time frame the SN would indicate.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Some folks tend to have their needle ready to burst someone's bubble before they even take the time to check their facts! The front sight sure looks right as rain to me!

Alk8944 said:

SaxonPig said:

The barrel contour on the underside does not look right to me for a standard unshrouded barrel (of which there were none for the 38/44). The modified front sight blade proves it's been worked on and I am pretty sure cutting the shroud was part of the deal.

Click to expand...

I would really hesitate to make these comments when an unshrouded .38 HD is right there in front of you. The short-action hammer and front sight style are completely correct for a gun made in the time frame the SN would indicate.

Very easily could be a special order gun, or a barrel forging for a 1950 Military or Army could have been mistakenly bored .38 and it was used. If there is at least one other reported it is possible several were done, mistakenly or otherwise, or it was a market test to see if a dying model could possibly be resurrected by lightening it up a bit. The shroud was hardly needed to provide extra weight on this gun as it was used for on the other Magnum N-Frames. I wonder if any N-Frame would ever have been made with a shroud if W&K hadn't ordered the 3rd Model .44 HE with this feature.

Click to expand...

The legend was that the shroud was needed when Texas style justice was administered (pistol whupping). This was of course before the blasted civil rights act of 1964!

I held this very gun in my hands shortly after it was purchased by Leland. While I am far from being an expert the gun did not appear to have been machined or reblued. I am eagerly awaiting the reply from Mr. Jinks to the inquiry that Leland is sending off sometime this week. Until then, unless Aspenhill or others know something we don't know, the mystery remains. This may be as good or better than the find that jmark1651 found at this same show not long ago.

Very interesting revolver, I'm looking forward to the results of the letter.

While I believe this gun will eventually be found factory correct, I think that besides removing the underlug, the rear of the front sight has been modified slightly. Mine are all fully round. This one seems to have been milled off at a slight angle (or is it my old eyes?). I wouldn't be surprised if it the rear face of this sight is also serrated.

Regards,

Jerry

According to Roy Jinks, the gun is right and part of a special order of 12.

Special orders are always the joker in the deck and makes it virtually impossible to say ANYTHING wasn't available as anything is possible where special orders (like we could say the RMs were available in 22LR since one was built) are concerned and as I have stated many, many times I am not an expert on S&Ws so I am not aware of the many arcane variations that pop up. (Gee, a whole 12 of these were produced. How could I have missed knowing about such a popular variation?) My comments are always opinion based on personal experience and observation. I had never before seen an HD in this configuration (again, with the world flooded with a whopping 12 of them how did I miss them?) so I assumed it was modified from original.

I still maintain that front sight and shroud have been altered. But apparently it was S&W who altered them before shipping. It may letter as being shipped this way but it is "correct" only in that it shipped in its modified form. To me it's still not a standard model as they had to modify the 12 guns from standard configuration to meet the demands of the buyer.

Naturally, since I had assumed that the gun was extensively modified after leaving the factory (when it fact it was extensively modified prior to leaving the factory) I also assumed it had been refinished (and I stated it was a beautiful refinish*) which would be necessary after so much machining. Of course that's not the case.

Obviously a collector will salivate over such a rare version but to me it lacks the visual appeal of the traditional HD and I'm not sure why the agency that purchased these wanted them this way. I thought it was cops who wanted the shrouded barrel in the first place, then some cops turn around and special order the guns sans shroud. Go figure.

So, I slouch corrected. Once again I have been exposed as the non-expert I readily admit that I am.



*The finish is much prettier than any standard HD I have ever seen. Also part of the special order?

Lowriderfxr- I did not, in fact, have the gun right in front of me. I had a photo of it. I once saw a photo of Bill Clinton talking to a Martian on the cover of a magazine. Does that make it real?

As for the hammer and trigger being correct for 1956, I won't dispute the hammer (nor did I in my original post) but here's my experience with HDs from 1956.



Please note the front sight. Like I said, I have never seen a pre-model marked HD with a sight such as seen on the gun being discussed. My bad for not being aware of every possible variation seen in special orders.

Verry Cool!

LelandRay said:

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The gun is very unique. Congratulations on a "one of twelve" kind. I look forward to the rest of the story...