.455 British Svc Revolver Research Thread

[Hondo44]

Jim,

I own:

four Triple-Locks in .455 and three 2nd Modells in .455:

T-Locks:
# 2373 found in Switzerland some weeks ago and I'm still working on the export papers -no Caliber markings-
# 3628 converted to .45LC (recessed perfect work) -no Caliber markings-
# 4534 -no Caliber markings-
# 7827 -from the .44 Spl run converted to .455 -no Caliber markings-

2nd Modell .455
# 29198 -with Caliber markings-
# 31782 converted to 45 ACP (rearside of the Cylinder turned off) -with Caliber markings-
# 66549 -with Caliber markings-


Best regards from Germany

Paul SWCA 1354

ps. I also have two T-Locks in .44 Spl and some 2nd and 3rd Modells in .44 Spl, if you need serial numbers and barrel length send an email.

Thx Paul!

That just increased my database sample by ~ 20%. I always wondered where all those tens of thousands of 455s ended up. We haven't seen near that # come back across the big pond. They must be all over Europe.

 

[Toyman]

There is mention in this thread about 2nd models in 45 Colt caliber.
David Carroll had one of these at the Kansas City show last weekend.
the gun was in 74000 serial number range and was in near new shape and priced accordingly.

 

[Hondo44]

Did you happen to notice if it had Canadian and/or RCMP stamps?

 

[Toyman]

I looked it over good no extra marks no barrel markings

 

[Hondo44]

All I can add that may pertain to that gun is this:

Brit Contract version 3.A. ".455 Mark II HE - 2nd Model" (sans extractor barrel shroud and 3rd lock), but with slightly larger cylinder/frame window dimensions from versions 1. the ".44 HE 1st Model Triple Lock" factory converted to .455, and 2. the ".455 HE 1st Model TL" produced in .455.

The 2nd Model continued in the .455 1st Model TL Brit serial range beginning #5462 to #74755, shipped 1915-17.

By Feb 1916 724* were manufactured for the Canadians, chambered in 45 Colt, presumed for the RCMP [H of S&W, pg. 203].

Another 15** in 45 Colt were sold commercially in 1916.

The Canadian military also bought 14,500 .455 2nd Models [H of S&W, pg. 203].

And 1105 2nd Models were released for commercial sales in the US, shipped Dec 1917 to Shapleigh Hardware in St. Louis [S&W, N&J pg. 216].


*""Roy's comments on that model might be helpful here [regarding an original Factory .45 Colt # 747xx that shipped on May 4, 1917]: "Between April and June 1917 Smith & Wesson manufactured 700 units of 2nd Models that are listed in the manufacturing records as .45 Colt caliber. Unfortunately the manufacturing records did not record serial numbers. The shipping records for this model list, in this same time period, the sale of 703 units, but the shipping records do not list the caliber. I am positive that the sale of these 703 units are the .45 Colt listed in the manufacturing records. The extra 3 units could have been manufactured from revolvers that had already been assembled. "Roy Jinks" Bob (Bettis1)

"The 727 [724]number could be correct but there have only been a small number that are from this shipment, less than 20 documented." Jim Fisher 'bmg60'
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...d-model-hand-ejector-45-lc.html#post139085603

**"The run of 15 with consecutive serial numbers, made in 1916 are all commercial, #46748 from that range is documented. There is no cal markings on this gun and the only other markings are the standard. Roy had to research the build records to find them because the shipping records didn't list the Cal. The front sights on these factory chambered for.45 Colt is a little higher [than 455 revolvers]. This is the only one of the 15 that is known. Roy said he guessed the other 14 were for a shipment to some other country." Jim Fisher 'bmg60' http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...d-model-hand-ejector-45-lc.html#post139086401

 

[blazermark]

TL .455 #3699 not caliber marked. Still in orig .455 configuration. x-pennants, in out broad arrows..

2nd model, #35064 roll marked .455 on barrel Canadian C circle arrow marked

2nd model, #39738 roll marked .455 on barrel x-pennants, in out broad arrows..

 

[Hondo44]

See post #1 for the latest databank update.

 

[steelslaver]

Jim,
I just won a 2nd model at Gunbroker. Looks like serial 56050 with left side of barrel market Smith & Wesson 455. British in and out of service marks etc. Will post more as soon as I take delivery.

 

[horthog52]

.455 research thread

Hello Jim, bought myself another one. This one has had the back of the cylinder turned down for .45 acp or auto rim. Left side of barrel has smith & wesson, but no cartridge stamp. To the left of that, (toward muzzle), is faintly and poorly, stamped 45 AR. Pretty sure it isn't factory. I now have three of these revolvers, and I am following your thread with great interest.

 

[Hondo44]

Hello Jim, bought myself another one. This one has had the back of the cylinder turned down for .45 acp or auto rim. Left side of barrel has smith & wesson, but no cartridge stamp. To the left of that, (toward muzzle), is faintly and poorly, stamped 45 AR. Pretty sure it isn't factory. I now have three of these revolvers, and I am following your thread with great interest.

Thank you. Do you have a serial or partial #?

 

[horthog52]

Duh!

I forgot the most important part. Serial # 14337

 

[Hondo44]

Thanks, just double checking, a 2nd model not a TL, correct?

 

[horthog52]

That is correct.

 

[steelslaver]

Hondo

I have got the 2nd model I recently purchase in hand. Kind of interesting. Excellent shape and retains very nice blue and all letters and markings very sharp, perfect screw heads etc. Extremely clean bore and chambers. Has not been reamed, inside chambers still dark blue and almost no wear on recoil shield or ejector rod. Don't think very many rounds been through this one. It does have a few small light scratches and minor dings here and there. Grip show very little wear but a few minor dings. Not perfect, but in great shape for a 100 year old revolver. I am a happy camper with this one.

Anyway the Markings. S&W .455. on Left side of barrel. 2 lines on top of barrel address and patent dates. crossed pennants on rear of cylinder face and on leftt side of frame where barrel goes through. Broad in and out of service arrows on yoke. On frame above grip a small arrow pointing up then under that some thing I can't make out possibly a crown then under that a E then under that II, S&W trade mark on side plated.
Nicely stamped on bottom of left grip is Holiver Seal. Serial number on butt, cylinder face, back of yoke and barrel is 56050. Inside yoke cut and on yoke is stamped 456 which I assume is an assemblers number. No other markings.

Did a search for Holiver Seal, but came up empty.

Pictures tomorrow when I get light box setup and pick up the sweet 5 screw 4" K22 that my FFL guy showed me when I picked this up.

 

[Skeetr57]

Jim: I have 2nd model #31776. LH side of barrel roll marked "Smith & Wesson .455. Brit acceptance stamp on knuckle of frame, crossed pennants on frame and rear of cylinder, as well as in and out broad arrows. The gun shows no sign of being fired, as the breech face and front of the cylinder show no powder rings or wear to the bluing. Many small dings and scratches in the finish due to rough handling during shipment.

 

[steelslaver]

Jim 56050 is the correct number for the 455 2nd model I just picked up

 

[model3sw]

Jim,

Always happy to help. I have the following:

Mark II, 1st Triple-Lock .455 SN: 930 cylinder measures 1+5/8", Barrel top: 2 line address newest date Feb '06
no roll stamps what so ever on sides of barrel, (no S&W, no caliber marking), no SN inside recess for ejector rod on barrel.
Cylinder SN: 930 matches

Mark II, 2nd, .455 SN: 27536, cylinder also measures 1+5/8". Barrel Top: 2 line address newest date Feb '06
Left side of Barrel "SMITH & WESSON .455" all nos. match

1+5/8" is by steel tape rule not micrometer so figure nominal (+/-) variance. If you need me to mic the cylinders, just ask.

Both are in original .455 configuration, properly "proofed".

Chamfers inside cylinders are visibly pronounced at proper depth, nice & shiny inside chambers.

Triple lock is at least a 90%+, 2nd Model is at least 95%+ condition.

Both have been in the family collection at least 20 years likely closer to 30 years.

 

[Hondo44]

Sal,

Thx. Are these cartridge marked on the barrel?

 

[model3sw]

Sal,

Thx. Are these cartridge marked on the barrel?

Jim, perhaps I was a bit long-winded in my prior post, however ... as posted ... the Triple lock #930 is NOT caliber marked nor are there any markings, what so ever, on the right or left barrel sides. Also, no serial number in the ejector rod recess area of the barrel where you would expect the SN to be but barrel appears original blue matching the rest of the finish on the revolver. On the top side of the barrel, it has a 2 line address, roll stamp, ending with the newest patent date of Feb '06.

the Mark II 2nd Model also has a 2 line barrel address on top, with the newest patent date of Feb '06, also. This one (Mark II 2nd, .455 HE 2nd) "is" marked "SMITH & WESSON .455" on the left side of the barrel. The entire scroll here (left side of barrel), phrased: "SMITH & WESSON .455" is not centered mid-barrel as might be expected, rather, it is much off centered toward the rear, ending up just a few millimeters before the barrel starts to flare wider.

Anything you need, Email me is best. I can get around to pix if you need just may take me a day or two to make time to photograph them.

 

[Hondo44]

My apologies, I must have stared at the eclipse too long w/o glasses!
Sorry, I tried to double check and STILL missed both of them! There's a short between eyeballs and brain.

Two beauties Sal, thanks very much!