What's the deal with bright vs dull K22 finish?

peterdeb · Feb 26, 2020

Reading another thread about a K22 pickup that the new owner didn't like the bright, shiny blued finish on the K22, but preferred a dull or satin finished one. Is there a hard fast rule that say certain model years had the shiny finish and other model years had the satin finish? Was one a special order? I didn't realize there were different finishes of the bluing, I just thought the dull finish was the result of a bad bluing day at S&W.

Absalom · Feb 26, 2020

peterdeb said:
... Is there a hard fast rule that say certain model years had the shiny finish and other model years had the satin finish? Was one a special order? I didn't realize there were different finishes of the bluing, I just thought the dull finish was the result of a bad bluing day at S&W.

If there is anything special about the K22 finish as opposed to other revolvers, my answer will be too generic.

But from 1946 (resumption of production after the war) to about 1955 the factory used a less polished blue finish as standard which is commonly referred to as “satin”, even though for S&W it was considered standard blue, on all revolvers. That would apply to the post-war K22 also. High-polish was special order during that time. After that, mirror polish became standard.

THE PILGRIM · Feb 26, 2020

Here’s my Satin Finish K22.

Hondo44 · Feb 26, 2020

Yes, there is a standard rule:

Just as the standard finish became the "satin blue" for ~10 years following WWI, for 10 years following WWII the "satin blue" was standard. For about 10-15% premium, one could special order the "Bright blue" which was the same as the Pre war standard finish.

While the "Bright blue" was still an option, barrels were stamped with a large 'B' following the serial # to indicate the optional bright blue finish.

Once the bright finish again became standard ~ 1955-56, the large B was no longer stamped on the barrel.

So you may suggest the owner of the K22 in the other thread check for the B. It's a preferred finish for many buyers.

Example:

Photo credit: newellj

22hipower · Feb 26, 2020

Some models were always "high polish bright" or whatever terminology is appropriate for the more polished deep blue finish; in that timeframe (post WWII to 1957ish) that would I think be just the 357 Magnum (pre-27) and 44 Magnum (pre-29). Later (1964) when the Model 57 came along those were always bright blue too but by then I think everything was "bright blue." Before model numbers there was a charge for other than standard "satin" blue and bright blue could be found on I think any of the pre-models as a special order. Someone will be along to correct that if I'm wrong. In some cases (pre-23s for example) the bright blue adds a premium to the value; 25-50% for pre-23s according to the Standard Catalog. Not sure it makes much difference in the other models. I prefer the bright high polish but others, as the case for the earlier K22 comment, prefer the satin finish. Either way, great guns and I'll happily buy guns with either finish.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Walter Rego · Feb 26, 2020

I have always been curious about my .38/44 Outdoorsman Model “Pre-Model 23”. It is Bright Blue finished. Mr. Jinks said it shipped in June 1956. It is marked with an O, an S and 956 on the grip frame and there is a B◊ stamped in the ejector rod shroud.
My understanding is that these are all factory rework/service marks from September 1956.
Maybe the original owner shipped it back within a couple of months of purchase for a refinish in Bright Blue ? I have not lettered it, I suppose some clue may be found within the S&W Historical Foundation records but I don't know that it's worth $100 to find out.

Actually, for the M&P models that were made post WWII, I really like the satin finish. But I can see how people wanted a bright blue finish on the premium target models.

paplinker · Feb 26, 2020

Hondo44 said:
Yes, there is a standard rule:

Just as the standard finish became the "satin blue" for ~10 years following WWI, for 10 years following WWII the "satin blue" was standard. For about 10-15% premium, one could special order the "Bright blue" which was the same as the Pre war standard finish.

While the "Bright blue" was still an option, barrels were stamped with a large 'B' following the serial # to indicate the optional bright blue finish.

Once the bright finish again became standard ~ 1955-56, the large B was no longer stamped on the barrel.

So you may suggest the owner of the K22 in the other thread check for the B. It's a preferred finish for many buyers.

Example:

Photo credit: newellj

Is the large B a hard rule or a general observation?

Seems S&W was all over the place when it came to stamping through the years.

LEO918 · Feb 26, 2020

Here are a couple of examples. A K-22 from 1948 with Std. Finish and a Bright Blue from 1955......

Hondo44 · Feb 26, 2020

Walter Rego said:
I have always been curious about my .38/44 Outdoorsman Model “Pre-Model 23”. It is Bright Blue finished. Mr. Jinks said it shipped in June 1956. It is marked with an O, an S and 956 on the grip frame and there is a B◊ stamped in the ejector rod shroud.
My understanding is that these are all factory rework/service marks from September 1956.
Maybe the original owner shipped it back within a couple of months of purchase for a refinish in Bright Blue ? I have not lettered it, I suppose some clue may be found within the S&W Historical Foundation records but I don't know that it's worth $100 to find out.

Actually, for the M&P models that were made post WWII, I really like the satin finish. But I can see how people wanted a bright blue finish on the premium target models.

The service dept at some point was in a separate bldg, referred to as the "outside service" dept. And guns worked on there were stamped O or OS. But only a letter will confirm if it originally came with a Bright blue and therefore already stamped with the B when it went it for rework. If no other work was done on it in 1956 and just refinished to Bright blue, chances are the B and the diamond (for changed or reworked) were stamped in the barrel shroud at the same time.

Hondo44 · Feb 26, 2020

paplinker said:
Is the large B a hard rule or a general observation?

Seems S&W was all over the place when it came to stamping through the years.

In my experience it's a pretty hard rule. If they letter with a bright blue finish from the factory, I can't remember any not having the large B stamp. I've seen the large B laying on it's side if stamped on a barrel with shroud, but stamped nonetheless.

I don't no of any exceptions, but I won't say there's never been an exception, there always seems to be 1 or 2.

THE PILGRIM · Feb 26, 2020

My Outdoorsman is also Satin Finish.
I bought the K22, the Outdoorsman and a Model 27 long ago up in Hoosier Land. First three Smiths I ever bought.
Then I bought the Model 19 in Guam.

glowe · Feb 27, 2020

Post-war was not the only time S&W used a satin blue as standard finish for S&Ws. Matte blue and high polish ("Bright") was available for blue finish on early K frame guns from the 1910s & 1920s. Satin blue was the standard, and bright was available on special order for both standard and target grade guns for that period as well.

S&W-Keeper · Mar 1, 2020

I have a mint k-38 from 1952 that I bought from an older Gentleman some years ago.It has the satín finish.He told me that you could get it with a high polish for 2 or 3 dollars more.

larryofcc · Mar 2, 2020

22hipower said:
Some models were always "high polish bright" or whatever terminology is appropriate for the more polished deep blue finish; in that timeframe (post WWII to 1957ish) that would I think be just the 357 Magnum (pre-27) and 44 Magnum (pre-29). Later (1964) when the Model 57 came along those were always bright blue too but by then I think everything was "bright blue." Before model numbers there was a charge for other than standard "satin" blue and bright blue could be found on I think any of the pre-models as a special order. Someone will be along to correct that if I'm wrong. In some cases (pre-23s for example) the bright blue adds a premium to the value; 25-50% for pre-23s according to the Standard Catalog. Not sure it makes much difference in the other models. I prefer the bright high polish but others, as the case for the earlier K22 comment, prefer the satin finish. Either way, great guns and I'll happily buy guns with either finish.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

The early Combat Magnums were also high polish blue. Big Larry

handejector · Mar 2, 2020

and again......and again....

handejector said:
The answer is simple-
'Satin Blue' was standard on most guns after WW II-
M&P, HD, Postwar 1917s, 38 OD, 44 Mil, 45 Mil, 1950 Targets in 44 & 45, K-22, K-32, K-38, 38 CM, 22 CM and the small frame guns.
Almost ALL could be ordered in Bright Blue for a slight upcharge.

At the very end of the 5 Screw period, several "Premium" models were introduced that ALWAYS had the bright blue-
44 Mag, Combat Mag, and the 1955 Target. The Factory acquired new buffing equipment for the large numbers of these guns to be polished.
Soon after, ALL models were shifted into bright blue as standard AT THE END of the 5 Screw period. Look at the very last 5 screw K Targets, 50 Targets and Mil models, and even the lowly M&P, and you see bright blue.

I've explained this many times before.
You guys ought to print it.

Donald Paul · Mar 4, 2020

Satin K22

My satin nickel K22 from 1948.
All nice, original.
Tgt hammer and trigger.
Six groove tangs.

Donald Paul · Mar 4, 2020

… better view of the side-plate:

Hondo44 · Mar 5, 2020

Donald Paul said:
My satin nickel K22 from 1948.
All nice, original.
Tgt hammer and trigger.
Six groove tangs.

Very nice! Do you have a letter confirming a factory satin nickel finish?

SRT · Mar 6, 2020

As posted by Lee:

"At the very end of the 5 Screw period, several "Premium" models were introduced that ALWAYS had the bright blue-44 Mag, Combat Mag, and the 1955 Target. The Factory acquired new buffing equipment for the large numbers of these guns to be polished. Soon after, ALL models were shifted into bright blue as standard AT THE END of the 5 Screw period. Look at the very last 5 screw K Targets, 50 Targets and Mil models, and even the lowly M&P, and you see bright blue."

Regarding Lee's reference relative to the factory acquiring new buffing equipment for the large numbers of guns to be polished, in a 38-year-old factory letter (January 5, 1982) from R. G. Jinks, Services Operation Manager/Historian, Roy wrote:

"Firearms manufactured in early 1950 had the low luster blue finish. When Smith & Wesson installed the HARPER BUFF MACHINE, the finish was changed to the high luster blue that has been available on the deluxe models. The date of this change is not known."

cmansguns · Mar 6, 2020

additional response info

As posted above by the experts, my K22 Masterpiece, very early post WWII, s/n K905, is the "satin" blue finish, and there is no "B" under the barrel flat.

With that said, see my Letter from Roy, specifically page 2 where he describes the gun itself, and he simply notes "blue finish" with no "satin", "bright blue", or "standard" connotations leading me to believe that it is very possible that even factory records would not make a definitive proof positive of what each of us who have these guns actually have, and therefore the big B stamp is most likely the best, and only, indicator of bright, or high polish, blued finish.

Sorry for the poorly lit pics, but trust me it is the satin blue finish.

What's the deal with bright vs dull K22 finish?

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