dry fire internal hammer revolvers ?

Yesterday I looked at a 642 in a local shop. I dry fired the unit one click and the shop worker blurted out "don't do that - the internal hammer stops against the alloy frame and will eventually cause deformation or cracking in the frame".

Dry fire or not ?

I'm not an expert but IMO some people blow the dry fire issue out of proportion especially if firing a well designed quality firearm. I dry fire all the time (limited on rim fires) without worry and I've yet to break anything. If buying a gun to use and can't live fire it, I'm a least going to dry fire it or probably won't buy it. A collector piece may be a different story.
I guess a snap cap type device may be the thing for those with concerns. Perhaps your dealer should consider one.

The factory states dry firing is fine with any centerfire handgun. Of course, you should respect the wishes of the shop who owns the gun, but I wonder how much force the hammer generates against the frame compared to the 10-15000 psi of a live .38 Special round .

I have no issue with the shop fellow. But I do think he (they) should tell you as he hands you the unit or at least post it. Whittaker's, for example, workers tell you when they hand you the unit.

I normally carry snap caps, 45 ACP and 9 mm, because these are the calibers I shoot. I guess I'll pick up some 38/357 since I have some interest in one of these calibers.

Anyway, my question was about the durability/design of the revolver. The hammer has to hit some where if there is no round, and against the frame seems likely.

Examine a few hundred alloy-frame revolvers and report findings back to us. I'll tell you right now -- you won't find any damage.

"The fellow at the gunshop said..." equals, "I heard the biggest bunch of crap today..."

This reminds me of a small gunshop back home in Ohio. The owner had signs posted on every countertop and on the walls..."Feel free to dry-fire any firearm: One snap - $50, Three snaps - $100".

Yeah...the guy was a jerk. Not surprisingly, his shop didn't last too long.

However, there are a lot of inexperienced people shopping at gunshops out there. I think many shops may frown on indiscriminate dry-firing of their guns, just because there are a few guns (rimfires, select other centerfires and older guns) that you don't want to have dry-fired. It's easier to have a blanket "no dry-firing" policy than to rely on employees/customers knowing which are which. When I worked at a gunshop, I usually didn't say anything (the owner was okay with dry-firing, noting the above exceptions) when I handed over a gun for inspection...unless we definitely didn't want it dry-fired.

Personally...I will always ask at a shop now before dry-firing. Even if the owner/clerk is okay with you dry-firing it, they always seem to appreciate being asked, and it shows that you have respect for other people's property. This, along with proper gun-handling techniques (such as not pointing the muzzle at the person waiting on you), can go far towards casting you in a favorable light to the shop, which is always a good thing.

Tim

i always ask before i dry fire, that way i'm covered...gotta respect the shop.

Depends on the firearm.
I watched a Ruger video the other day from their website and the guy who reassebled his SP101 dy fired it rapidly about 7 or 8 times in a row to make sure everything functioned ok.

On the other end of the spectrum...If you own a Colt Lawman MK III, you should never dry fire it, as the pins are prone to breaking when you do.

I never dry fire any of my older model Smiths. I figure why risk something breaking if you can avoid it by using snap caps.

When in doubt, ask.

5 Shot said:

i always ask before i dry fire, that way i'm covered...gotta respect the shop.

Click to expand...

^^^^this. always ask. I hate noobs that I see in some shops handling guns like it's theirs already.

One poster said that the factory says dry firing is OK. Don't know if that is in the manual or what but I had a conversation one time with Herb Belin, S&W's revolver manager. He said that while he doesn't recommend you dry fire for 2 hrs while watching a movie at home, typical dry firing is fine.

I still think snap caps are a good idea if you want to dry fire for conditioning yourself for actual shooting. Don

Every time you dry fire a weapon, you are decreasing the service life of that mechanism. All machines have a finite number of times they will cycle. What if that was the last one,although nothing broke, then you really needed it to protect yourself or your family. Why take that chance. If you like dry firing your revolver, I suggest you also get that wrist flip action together for closing the cylinder, then that way maybe more things will fail at the same time. Even dry firing with snap caps just decrease the life of a gun in my opinion. I would dry fire a gun only if it was not used for protection and I knew I would never have to bet my life on its functionality. Like my mom used to say " it may not hurt nothing, but it ain't doing it any good either".
Just my opinion,
Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year!!!!!
gordon

People own Ruger Sixes and GP100's that they have dry fired 100's of thousands of times, in fact it's called the "Poor man's trigger job", some guys say they dry fire their GP100 thousands of times to work the burrs off the internals. Ruger even says dry firing is OK in the manual. I still avoid doing it a lot without snap caps. Better to use a $4 snap cap rather than have that pin being driven against the frame.

I do not dry fire my S&W's, I have a few used ones that past owners have dry fired a lot and it WILL peen the hole on the bushing outward. One was so bad I had to file the peened metal down just to get the cylinder to rotate with rounds in the chambers. I think I bought someone's designated dry fire gun....

I personally do not dry fire my guns without snap caps often, maybe once or twice on some "beaters" that I worked on, just to make sure a new part works. I don't pay good money for my guns to use them as cap guns or "click click" play toys, I buy them to shoot live rounds out of. A Model 10, 586, 65 etc. will last longer than my lifetime if I take care of it, I see no need to work the action thousands of times just to hear it go click.

BTW it's very ,very bad form to dry fire someone else's gun, even a gun shop's gun, without asking. It doesn't help your cause to get on the owners good side and get money off the gun either. I have seen dealers freak the hell out on people at gun shows because they will have a big sign "Please do not dry fire guns" and some idiot, sure enough, will be looking at a revolver or auto and "click click!" I have seen a few people lock slides back on pistols, and then hit the slide release and "CLACK" you hear that sound echo across the gun shop as the slide slams shut on an empty chamber on a $1000 Kimber or an old P38, and then the "click" as they dry fire it, and the gun shop owner looks like he's fighting the urge to come over the counter when the guy hands it back and says "thanks" and walks out of the store without buying anything........

One way to not get invited back to my house to look at my guns is to dry fire my stuff......my one friend who dry fired my Model 29 because he wanted to see my "Dirty Harry gun" has not touched any of my guns since.....

I appreciate that some folks are particular about dry firing their Smiths. That is certainlhy ok. I do not dry fire a lot, but I do at times, especially after cleaning to ensure that everything is still working properly. On occasion I will dry fire while sighting for a few cycles. Mostly, they are shot much more than their dry fired and I have no evidence what little I dry fired them has caused any harm.

5 Shot said:

i always ask before i dry fire, that way i'm covered...gotta respect the shop.

Click to expand...

amen..............once its yours.....................do what ever you want!

I don't dry fire my rimfires, either my 617 or my 41, without snap caps. As for my other Smith revolvers and semis, they get dry fired a lot, with no evident damage to the guns after my having dry fired them for years and years.

IMO snap caps should be used for any dryfiring. Note, there are NO commercial snap caps for rimfires that permit dryfiring, the 22 caliber snap caps are for feed function testing ONLY.

My choice is the Azoom snap cap. This features an aluminum body with a hard urethane cushion inserted into the primer location. While they are not inexpensive I believe they do provide some needed protection for the firing mechanism.

ALL firing pins have some type of retention on the forward position. Usually something along the lines of a notch in the firing pin and a cross pin that is recessed into that notch. Do a lot of dryfiring without a snap cap and either the firing pin will fracture or that retaining pin will break. In both events you now have a firearm that won't ignite a primer. In addition, on some guns the hammer will strike the frame with a hard blow if a snap cap isn't used. In time, the hammer may break due to tha impact of the area of the frame which has been struck can be deformed by peening. Best case, your purchasing a new hammer, worst case you've damaged the frame to the point where the gun has to be replaced.

Bottomline, a snap cap is cheap insurance for the gun. I'll also note that I have actually shot the rim off some snap caps for revolver ammunition. I've also peened the headspace ledge on some semi auto caliber snap caps to the point where they required increased effort to extract them from the chambers. Think about that for a moment, that firing pin hits that urethane insert with enough force to actually cause the high strength aluminum body to deform or completely fail. That's a pretty hard strike that otherwise would be hitting a part that effects function of the gun. Finally, I'll also point out that there is a distinct difference in the noise produced by dry firing without snap caps when compared to dry firing with snap caps. If the wear that I've seen on my snap caps doesn't convince you that they are needed, perhaps the difference in the noise produced will.

As for rimfires, the ONLY reasonable option is dirt cheap although not very convenient. That is a rifed rimfire casing with an undimpled area under the firing pin. With my older 6 shot 617, this will produce a muffled thud when the hammer falls for just 6 cycles, as soon as a previously cycled area is under the hammer the noise increases to a loud clang, which IS caused by the hammer hitting the frame.

As for why dryfire, most of us don't have a range in our back yard or an unlimited source of ammunition. Dry firing is an excellent method for practicing and refining trigger skills with the side benefit of wearing in the sear surfaces for a smoother trigger.

i just do not dry fire firearms. i was taught not to at an early age, and i have never done it. i most certainly wouldn't dry fire someone else's firearm!

DonD said:

One poster said that the factory says dry firing is OK. Don't know if that is in the manual or what but I had a conversation one time with Herb Belin, S&W's revolver manager. He said that while he doesn't recommend you dry fire for 2 hrs while watching a movie at home, typical dry firing is fine.

I still think snap caps are a good idea if you want to dry fire for conditioning yourself for actual shooting. Don

Click to expand...

Here is the quote from the factory website:

FAQs - Smith & Wesson

Noting that, I hardly ever dry fire any centerfire gun, and no rimfires without an empty casing lined up with an undamaged part of the rim on the firing pin. However, the original question was if the dealer was correct in claiming that dry firing a gun once or twice permanently damages the frame, and the answer is no. Hundreds or thousands, maybe.

hi-power man said:

Yesterday I looked at a 642 in a local shop. I dry fired the unit one click and the shop worker blurted out "don't do that - the internal hammer stops against the alloy frame and will eventually cause deformation or cracking in the frame".

Dry fire or not ?

Click to expand...

It is a basic rule of firearms handling etiquette that if the firearm is not your property, you ask first before dry firing.

As to the statement made by the dealer, however, as is usual with "glass counter commandos," the dealer is "full of it." Does the dealer think that the action works differently just because a cartridge is in the charge hole? Dry fire away!

In the past, the folded instruction manuals/sheets that were shipped with all new S&Ws, including the Airweight Centenniels (642 is the model number of one variation of the Airweight Centenniel), recommended dry firing the empty revolver as a means of learning sight alignment and trigger control. I have followed that advice for about 40 years of shooting with no ill effects.

Dry firing a centerfire S&W revolver will not harm it, regardless of the hammer configuration...