Ammo for a model 41

Greetings all,

I am asking this question because I bought a new model 41 about 3 weeks ago. With respect to ammo, the general consensus is to use SV 22LR. My question is if there are some 22LR ammo that is made more so for a 22 LR rifle than the model 41 pistol. For example, I own some Norma TAC 22 that shoots great out of my Ruger 10/22 rifle. Is it “made” for pistol use or is it better for rifle use? I know that CCI Standard Velocity 22LR is recommended by most for the model 41. Am I doing my model 41 a disservice by using “certain” 22LR ammo that suits a rifle more than this particular pistol? My Ruger 10/22 eats everything—no jams nor issues after 500 rounds. The model 41 is MUCH more finicky and actually, quite irritating, since it cost $1600 and seems more unreliable. I have shot about 350–400 rounds through it. It likes Federal Target ammo at 1200 FPS and 40 grain with no issues. Norma TAC 22 and CCI Standard Velocity jams every 3-4 rounds or stove pipes. Lastly, how often should I disassemble and clean the model 41? Thank you.

CCI SV is pretty much the standard for all but serious competition in bullseye shooting. Aguila SV is about the same.

Your pistol much just need to break in. And keep it clean. It has a tighter chamber than the chasm that is the Ruger sporter chamber.

500 rounds, it's not even broken in yet. The higher velocity ammo you are using with good results won't hurt your Model 41. Once you've shot 1000 round you should find SV working much better in it.

Use what works though. If your gun likes Federal Target or Norma TAC 22 go right ahead and use it.

LOL, try “ any brand” 22 in a Hi Standard Supermatic Citation. Most finicky 22 auto I’ve shot.

Greyman50 said:

LOL, try “ any brand” 22 in a Hi Standard Supermatic Citation. Most finicky 22 auto I’ve shot.

Click to expand...

Hi Standard Victors, etc have a history of frame cracks when fired with significant amounts of high velocity ammo.

They also don’t have a feed ramp, but use the magazine lips to launch the round into the chamber.

So they are both ammo sensitive and require properly tuned magazines.


But I prefer both my Victors to my Model 41. They all run very well with CCI SV.

It is a bit unfortunate that some of the better (more expensive) .22s are ammo sensitive, but to be fair they do run pretty tight chambers in order to enhance accuracy. It would be easy to make a more reliable gun at the expense of some accuracy. That said, there is general consensus the "They don't make them like they used to" and the older guns do seem to have a better reputation. I don't know if they are in fact better or if they just are well broken in.
I also find mine likes the Federal, particularly "Automatch".
The Norma works fine but groups go from 1.3" with the Federal up to 1.5" with the Norma at 25yds. Eley Club also comes in behind the Federal for my particular gun.
I know now there is a general suggestion to use SV ammo in a 41, but I didn't know that for the first few decades of owning one and in that time I fed it tens of thousands of rounds of whatever I had on hand with no apparent ill effect. I did run one of those shock buffers for much of that time. I know there are a variety of opinions on those as well and have no interest in derailing the conversation with a long discussion of their merits, just mentioning it in the context of having run a bunch of SV and HV .22 over the years.
As to cleaning, I read a pretty scientific article on .22 and bore wear and quit cleaning my bore as a result. Once again, you will find a variety of opinions from equally experience shooters on the subject, in the end you will have to work out what works for you.
As for other cleaning, I find every ~500 rounds it's good to pull off the barrel, run a brush through the magwell, and do a good job of cleaning off the chamber end of the barrel and breechface on the slide. Crud does tend to collect in those areas and I've had fewer stoppages with cleaning them, paying particular attention to the extractor. It can get a buildup under it which requires it's removal and keeping the breech clean reduces that tendency. If you do happen to remove it, myself and others have had good luck with the Volquartsen extractor as a thing that tends to improve extraction reliability.
You can buy a recoil spring kit that will allow you to tune the gun to a specific ammo a bit.
Also, when testing for reliability and accuracy it seems to discount the first few shots after changing ammo type/brand as it seems to settle in a bit in some cases.

YES, you should clean your guns. Part of cleaning is lubrication, Guns need to be properly lubricated. Before shooting a new or used firearm is disassemble, clean and properly lubricate. I can’t believe how dry most guns are inside. You will only know if you look. And yes, I do have a model 41.

It is a bit unfortunate that some of the better (more expensive) .22s are ammo sensitive, but to be fair they do run pretty tight chambers in order to enhance accuracy. It would be easy to make a more reliable gun at the expense of some accuracy. That said, there is general consensus the "They don't make them like they used to" and the older guns do seem to have a better reputation. I don't know if they are in fact better or if they just are well broken in.
I also find mine likes the Federal, particularly "Automatch".
The Norma works fine but groups go from 1.3" with the Federal up to 1.5" with the Norma at 25yds. Eley Club also comes in behind the Federal for my particular gun.
I know now there is a general suggestion to use SV ammo in a 41, but I didn't know that for the first few decades of owning one and in that time I fed it tens of thousands of rounds of whatever I had on hand with no apparent ill effect. I did run one of those shock buffers for much of that time. I know there are a variety of opinions on those as well and have no interest in derailing the conversation with a long discussion of their merits, just mentioning it in the context of having run a bunch of SV and HV .22 over the years.
As to cleaning, I read a pretty scientific article on .22 and bore wear and quit cleaning my bore as a result. Once again, you will find a variety of opinions from equally experience shooters on the subject, in the end you will have to work out what works for you.
As for other cleaning, I find every ~500 rounds it's good to pull off the barrel, run a brush through the magwell, and do a good job of cleaning off the chamber end of the barrel and breechface on the slide. Crud does tend to collect in those areas and I've had fewer stoppages with cleaning them, paying particular attention to the extractor. It can get a buildup under it which requires it's removal and keeping the breech clean reduces that tendency. If you do happen to remove it, myself and others have had good luck with the Volquartsen extractor as a thing that tends to improve extraction reliability.
You can buy a recoil spring kit that will allow you to tune the gun to a specific ammo a bit.

Mine is much older and right now is shooting Aquila SV with few if any problems. When the Aquila is used up, I will go to CCI SV, it shoots well and I have a pretty good supply.

Something I have noticed on my M41 and Nelson Conversion is that after a thorough cleaning, including scrubbing the chamber, it takes a few shots to resume reliable operation. I think they need a little bullet lube and powder fouling to lubricate the chamber. I have tried the old Bullseye shooter's trick of a drop of oil on the top round in the magazine and it helps.

I’ve only been on the fringe of real Bullseye Pistol shooting, but I was collecting old High Standards years ago and still keep a casual eye on them. BB57, I have never seen or even heard of a frame crack in a modern (or even pre-War like I collected) High Standard. While most people I knew shoot/shot SV ammo in them, it was for accuracy and control, not concern over damage.

I use a lot of Federal Auto Match which gives more accuracy than I am capable of achieving and can be had at a reasonable price in non-panic buy times. I keep a bunch on hand for hard times.

I took to heart articles I read suggesting that damage from cleaning was more likely than accuracy gained, so I have to be reminded to clean my Bullseye guns, either when somebody notices how filthy one of them has gotten and comments on it, or when I start to get malfunctions. That’s the way I do it, you have to do what works for you.

Froggie

I just bought 5000 rds of Norma Tac 22 from an estate. Velocity is advertised as 1082 FPS vs 1070 FPS for CCI SV (and 1235 FPS for CCI minimag), so it should run fine in your S&W 41. It runs trouble free in all my semi auto .22 pistols.

A tight chamber isn't going to break in I would expect. I would polish the feed ramp and see what that does. Todays smiths get to see no human touch, strict parts bin guns with no final inspection I would think and when they don't work it is up to the customer to figure it out.

Green Frog said:

…/
/….BB57, I have never seen or even heard of a frame crack in a modern (or even pre-War like I collected) High Standard. While most people I knew shoot/shot SV ammo in them, it was for accuracy and control, not concern over damage…../
/…

Click to expand...

The cracks occur in the slide stop cut at the rear of the magazine well. There are three reasons for this:

1) the rear corner of the mag well isn’t rounded but rather has an angle that creates a stress riser;

2) the surface inside the slide stop cut on the older Connecticut era guns is quite rough and that surface roughness creates additional stress risers; and

3) the metallurgy in the older CT era Hi Standard pistols wasn’t alloyed properly to allow adequate heat treatment.

The newer (1993 and later) Houston TX era Hi Standards addressed all of the above issues not by eliminating the stress risers, but by using better 4340 steel.

Alan Aeronstine, the manager during the Houston area reported he’d replaced between 500 and 600 cracked CT era frames.

Most, but not all of the cracked frames occur in pistols that are shot a lot by Bullseye competitors. Generally speaking a crack won’t occur unless the pistol has tens of thousands of rounds through it, or has been shot with a weak recoil spring.

Crack prevention is best done by:

A) sticking with standard velocity ammo; and

B) ensuring the recoil spring still retains at least 90% of its original strength. Replace the recoil spring when you buy new pistols since you don’t know the round count, and replace it every 10,000 rounds after that.

The crack in this one is pretty obvious:





This one isn’t as bad…yet…as it hasn’t worked it’s way up into the slide rail:



Another crack in a frame rail:



A really, really skilled TIG welder can weld the crack and the surfaces can be reprofiled. A less than really skilled TIG welder will blow right through the frame.

This Auto Match?
So is it OK to shoot it in my Model 46?
Hi Standard HDM?

BB57 said:

A really, really skilled TIG welder can weld the crack and the surfaces can be reprofiled. A less than really skilled TIG welder will blow right through the frame.

Click to expand...

If you simply mill some copper blocks to act as dams it becomes much easier to do a frame repair with TIG, but I'm pretty sure we are waaaay off in the weeds unless someone has pics of a 41 they broke from HV ammo.

THE PILGRIM said:

This Auto Match?
So is it OK to shoot it in my Model 46?
Hi Standard HDM?

Click to expand...

Those rounds should be fine.
That's the AutoMatch the 41/46 seem to be particularly partial to, accuracy-wise at least.
Your 46 has thinner slide rails than a 41 so replace your recoil spring if you can't remember the last time you did so and even better advice to avoid HV ammo than for a 41 owner.

teletech said:

... I'm pretty sure we are waaaay off in the weeds unless someone has pics of a 41 they broke from HV ammo.

Click to expand...

Back in the old days of this forum (2009?), I posted about my 41 that experienced a case head separation shooting CCI Mini-Mag ammo, during one of those periods of ammo shortages when I couldn't get SV ammo. This was my one owner 1969 vintage 41. The case separation destroyed both original grips and the guts of the magazine, and my hand was a bit numb for a bit. It was the only time I ever used HV ammo, back in 1969 and early 70s we used a steady diet of Remington green box. Lots of it!

Picked up 500 rounds of CCI S V today, my Hi Standard will be happy.

THE PILGRIM said:

This Auto Match?
So is it OK to shoot it in my Model 46?
Hi Standard HDM?

Click to expand...

Both of my M41’s shoot the Auto Match flawlessly FWIW. And I have a LOT of it accumulated over time.



I’ve also found CCI SV recently for a little north of $0.10 a round - expensive but worth it to me.

Ammo for model 41

Yes, my model 41 shoots the Federal Automatch 40 grain 1200 FPS ammo flawlessly as well. But will this hurt the gun, the springs, or crack the frame? I read that the top end definition of SV is 1150 FPS. CCI SV is 1070. CCI mini mags are a 36 grain bullet and 1435 FPS…..HV. Just asking. I really like the Federal Automatch……why does it work so well when others don’t?