1006 & Magtech ignition problem

[MoonclipMaster]

I haven't shot my S&W 10mm semi-autos much in a few years because I stopped reloading and had basically run out of ammo, had other things going on etc. But I stocked up on Magtech 10mm Auto (SKU 10A) recently & took some to the range with my 1006.

Out of a box of 50, I had 4-5 cartridges that did not go off on the first hit. I didn't take notes, but I recall one of them required five (5) hits in single-action mode to go off.

Ammo problem, right? Hard primers or whatnot.

Next weekend I took my 1066 to the range with the same ammo. All 50 went off on the first try, including several double-action shots.

Is there anything I can look at on the 1006 that might explain the problem? Ever seen this issue? Haven't found a prior discussion of it anywhere so far.

Both guns were either spotless or reasonably clean before their respective range trips, so let's assume for the sake of discussion this wasn't due to debris in the firing pin channel, etc. Also if it were that I think I would have had trouble with more than just a few shots.

I suppose it could still be an ammo problem, I just don't have any other 10mm Auto ammo to try. I don't have any other 10mm guns to try it in, either, because S&W has my 610 revolver right now and it is stuck in limbo as they try to wiggle out of fixing it (see this thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/591573-610-sometimes-jams-up-10mm.html)

 

[BMCM]

I can't speak to Magtech ammo as I have no first hand experience with that brand. However...

I will certainly NOT assume the issue was not due to debris or gunk in the firing pin channel. That is by a wide margin the very VERY first thing any of us would inspect after a series of light strikes on ANY self loader. Especially after some years of non-use in storage where lubricants can migrate & oxidize into some sticky mucus like goo.

I recommend pulling the firing pin & inspect/clean. BTW the firing pin & spring shall be run dry. No lubricant Same goes for those two little plungers & springs that reside on either side of the firing pin. Dry

Only if inspection shows the firing pin is not at fault would I look to these other things that can cause or contribute to light strikes:...

*Aftermarket 'extra power' firing pin spring
*Aftermarket 'reduced power' mainspring (aka cheapo trigger job)
*Barrel headspaced long due to faulty manufacture or modification post manufacture.

Cheers
Bill

 

[BLUEDOT37]

As BMCM said, check the firing pin tunnel.

A couple outings ago my 1006 started having FTF/light strikes at the range, which I've never had any troubles with before. Once I got home I stripped it down & found quit a bit of metal debris in the firing pin tunnel.

I had also been shooting my 1013 a lot lately & figured I better clean it's tunnel too. Even though I've put almost 900 rounds thru the 1013 it had virtually no debris in it's tunnel, but it was worth checking & comparing the two. Same handloads thru both.

Possibly the 1006 has a larger firing pin hole that allows more debris in? Dunno.

Anyway, worth a check to confirm.

.

FWIW, on headpsacing, I have a set of "Go - No Go" gages from my 1013 build & I found my 1006 was the only 10mm I have that could close (just) it's action with the No-Go gage installed, which is .012" over Go (.992"). Every pistol is different though so you never know till you check.

.

 

[MoonclipMaster]

Nope, it wasn't debris in the firing pin channel. Nor gunk, I certainly did not put any lubrication on the firing pin last time I was in there.

There was a small amount of grime in there, as you would expect from years of shooting and not doing a complete disassembly for cleaning.

Totally stumped at this point.

 

[Denver Dick]

Question: does the hammer spring appear to be weak? I currently own 19 S&W 3rd Gen pistols, and have owned as many as 24 at one time. I've had to replace a weak hammer spring on a few, usually on "Big Boy" .45 ACP or 10mm Auto pistols. After eliminating the firing pin channel issue, I would put in a new FACTORY firing pin return spring and hammer spring. FWIW and good luck.

 

[MoonclipMaster]

Hammer spring is I suppose all that's left. It doesn't seem weak, but that means nothing without an actual measurement.

Cheap enough to swap out the same spring on the 1066. It hasn't had light strikes but it's of a similar age to the 1006 and had more rounds through it.

 

[MoonclipMaster]

On further consideration I may just swap out all the springs in all my S&Ws as preventative maintenance. Nearly all have seen thousands of rounds.

Hammer, recoil and firing pin springs anyway. I'm not chasing a zillion tiny springs.

 

[SMSgt]

If you're getting brass shavings, etc. in the firing pin channel, you may have a sharp edge on the firing pin opening on the breech. It can shave bits of brass as the case slides up across it. A light (very light!) chamfer of the opening will stop it. Just enough to remove the sharp edge.

 

[MoonclipMaster]

I looked hard but, fortunately, didn't actually see any brass shavings in the small amount of residue that a Qtip removed from the firing pin channel.

 

[MoonclipMaster]

Hammer springs changed. No further misfires yet, but I haven't shot the 10xx's a lot.

It may be the ammo that was the actual problem. I had one round of Magtech 10mm that didn't go off in a different gun, last weekend. It was the S&W 610 revolver that was having other problems (locking up at random) and I no longer own it.

The round in question did go off on the second hit, but, yeah, that shouldn't happen.

I can't be sure, because I don't have any other 10mm ammo to test with.

I suppose I'll buy another brand next time I get low on 10mm, & see if the misfires happen again.

 

[MoonclipMaster]

Got back to the range with the 1006. I had 5 or 6 misfires with the Magetch ammo before I quit.

This time, I saved the cartridges that didn't go off on the first hit, after giving them plenty of time for delayed ignition. I'll try to get some good pics of the primers & post 'em here.

 

[MoonclipMaster]

OK, I think my 1006 just really doesn't like Magtech.

I tried a friend's hand loads. Usually I will not shoot anyone else's hand loads, but I've known him for years and he is almost as perfectionist and meticulous as I am, with regard to reloading.

Fired 50 rounds of that ammo (180 gr. @ ~1200 ft/s) without a single problem.

There was another problem. Another of my magazine floorplates split. I neglected to take a photo, unfortunately. Imagine the floorplate peeling open like a sardine can. It looked something like that, and it happened while I was loading the magazine. I

It seems the plastic had become brittle with age, and so could not take the pressure of the spring. I've had this happen 3 times in the last few months, so I guess I'll go ahead and replace all my mag floorplates as preventative maintenance.

 

[MoonclipMaster]

Finally thought to keep some of the rounds that didn't go off. They're on the bottom row in this photo:

Next row up is fired brass. All of this from my 1006.

I'm not sure what to make of the firing pin impressions on the ones that failed to ignite.

 

[stansdds]

Looks like light firing pin strikes to me. If the firing pin, spring and tunnel are clean, I'd have to wonder if there is an issue with the firing pin safety not fully disengaging.

 

[MoonclipMaster]

Not only that but the hammer spring is brand new.

How would I check for a problem with the firing pin block? That's what you're referencing I think?

 

[G. Freeman]

I have several thousands of magtech spp that I purchased at least a decade ago. Just started using them. They are as soft as Federals and go bang every time.

 

[G. Freeman]

Test the fp block by pointing the barrel upwards. Insert pencil with eraser into the chamber. Pull trigger. Pencil should fly out.

 

[Steve912]

Finally thought to keep some of the rounds that didn't go off. They're on the bottom row in this photo:

Next row up is fired brass. All of this from my 1006.

I'm not sure what to make of the firing pin impressions on the ones that failed to ignite.

All five on the bottom row were hit?
The two on left are barely dented at all.

Any chance you could have accidentally replaced the
firing pin with a shorter one, from another gun, during
a cleaning session?

Do both firing pin plungers move freely in slide? I bought
a 4013TSW recently and there was a shocking amount of
brown mud behind both plunger springs, after drifting
the rear sight off.

 

[stansdds]

Yep, the pencil test can be a pretty good indicator of proper functioning. By the way, if you do this test, the pencil should launch out of the barrel with enough velocity to hit and even dent or put a puncture into the ceiling. Yes, I learned this from experience.

Do not put any part of your body over the muzzle when performing this test. This I did not learn from experience, but seeing a pencil stuck in the ceiling tells me it could also do some serious harm to the human body.

 

[MoonclipMaster]

No, no way I swapped firing pins.

Firing pin moves freely in its channel.

I tested the 1006 with different ammunition last weekend, some fairly hot reloads (180 gr. FMJ @ ~1250 ft/s). All 50 rounds worked flawlessly.

Given that, I don't think there's actually anything wrong with the gun. I think it just doesn't like Magtech primers.

I'm getting another brand of factory 10mm soon to test. I tried Armscor but it turned into a whole goatrope. I think I'll try Sig Sauer next.

Meanwhile, my Ruger Super Redhawk likes the Magtech 10mm just fine, so I suppose I'll use the rest of the case in that gun.