19-4 spitting lead

[tascofeldman]

I have a 19-4 that I rescued from a pawn shop a few months back. After a good cleaning I took it out and shot a box of 158 grain 38's through it. Noticed on a couple of shots something hitting me on the left side of the face, blew it off to shooting my plate while I had it swinging. Cleaned it real good and put a box of 158 grain 357 through it, no issues. 2 weeks ago I took it to a USPSA shoot at a local club. 275 rounds of 158 grain lead in 2 different brands, noticed the occasional light strike of something on the left side of my face, thought maybe it was powder or maybe debris from the range. Got home and proceded to clean it and found a heavy deposit of lead around the barrel at the frame in about the 10 o'clock to 12 oclock position and splash back on the face of the cylinder on all 6. I realize the gun is out of time, what do I do about it? Really like the gun, the way it feels and shoots. Take it to a smith or does it need to go to S&W or go down the road? It's not a showpiece so don't want to put a mint into it. Thanks

 

[4barrel]

Numrich makes an oversized hand--easy to install--if that dont fix it u havent spent much time or money--it will probably shoot plated bullets with no problem. A warmer lead load will normally lead anyway. If the rear of the cylinder timer star is worn I would send it back to S&W.--Nice people to deal with. It sounds like it would make a good carry piece as is.

 

[john traveler]

The first thing I would do is give the revolver a thorough cleaning using solvent and brass bristle brush to clean the cylinder face and barrel stub ("forcing cone") to remove leading and carbon residue.

Then I would use feeler gages to measure the barrel-to-cylinder gap and endshake: the difference with cylinder pushed forward and with cylinder pushed back gives you the endshake. Excessive endshake and b-c gap can give the lead spitting you described. Installing endshake washers is easy.

Fitting a replacement hand is more difficult. If the gun needs the full treatment of resetting b-c gap, correcting endshake, and fitting with replacement hand, I would send it in to S&W.

 

[roughedgekid]

First you need to check the timing to see if it locks up right before the hammer falls. If its good you can take a range rod and see how it ticks. You can strech the hand if you know what your doing but dont just assume the hand is short.you can wind up with a bigger problem.

 

[john traveler]

"Hand stretching" is not done on S&W revolvers because it is the thickness of the hand that determines lockup, not the length.

"Hand stretching" is typically done on old style Colt revolvers such as the Python, old model Trooper, Police Positive, and Detective Special models.

 

[tascofeldman]

Well, it's not always a good thing to rescue one I guess. Local GS gave a grocery list of problems. Chipped hand, eroded cone, 4 of 6 not locking up right due to wallowed out cylinder stops, excessive bc gap. Best opinion was to thoroughly clean the gun, run plated bullets, sparingly. Good carry gun / nightstand gun. Guess that's the price I have to pay, sad it wasn't me that shot the **** out of it, guess I can retire it and just enjoy it for what it is, a classic S&W revolver.

 

[m1gunner]

Would a cylinder swap help the situation? I have a 19-3 cylinder that is quite nice. Others pop up on the classified sales from time to time as well.

PM if interested.

 

[M29since14]

Well, it's not always a good thing to rescue one I guess...

Your rescue job is not done. Do what John suggests. Send it to S&W and let them overhaul it. If you need a different cylinder, they will let you know and you can track one down. There are lots of parts floating around out there. Most likely you can find whatever is needed to restore the gun. Don't stop now!

 

[Bat Guano]

I picked up a similar 19-3 a while back that had some endshake, cylinder gap, cylinder lockup and forcing cone issues. It didn't spit yet, but was about ready to start. It was obviously a police trade-in with about a million road miles on it and a fair amount of shooting. Sent it into S&W for those issues and a new front sight as that was somewhat worn and rounded.

Upshot was that all those things were fixed plus they turned the barrel back two turns, and recut the forcing cone area. The holster wear remains but the result was a gun that shoots like new. I don't run 125 gr. Magnums through it on principle, but I could run heavier bullet weights if I so chose. In the meantime it makes a dandy .38 Special.

They do good work back there and the cost is quite reasonable.

 

[BruceM]

Both the cylinder carry up and loose lockup issues can usually be remedied by installing the oversized hand and cylinder stop. Not a big deal and this you can probably do yourself.

The BC gap/endshake issue and forcing cone erosion issues are a little more involved. If the forcing cone is not seriously eroded, it can be repaired by pulling the barrel, turning it back one turn, re-installing & re-cutting the forcing cone. While that is being done, the endshake must be dealt by installing the endshake bushings or what ever method the factory currently employs. These things need to be done all at once because setting the B/C gap and endshake are interrelated. If the barrel is badly eroded, the procedure is the same except with the substitution of a new or undamaged used barrel. This work needs to be done at the factory or by a competent pistolsmith.

Forcing cone problems are very common on K-Frame .357 magnums like the M19 and the M66. These guns were developed for use by LEO's where practice would be done with .38 Special ammo and qualifying & carry ammo would be full power magnum ammo. This theoretically would limit the amount of firing with the full power stuff. Additionally, Smith & Wesson warned against shooting 110 and 125 grain magnum ammo in K-Frame magnums because it led to premature forcing cone erosion. The lock-up and carry-up problems are common on all used Smith & Wesson double action revolvers as is endshake in magnum chamberings. Anyway, this is all water over the dam at this point.

At this time, I would ship the gun to Smith & Wesson for evaluation. If you work with a dealer, possibly he can ship the gun for you via USPS Priority Mail which is vastly more cost effective than you shipping via either FedEx or UPS overnight saver, which is required by them for handguns.



Bruce

 

[roughedgekid]

"Hand stretching" is not done on S&W revolvers because it is the thickness of the hand that determines lockup, not the length.

"Hand stretching" is typically done on old style Colt revolvers such as the Python, old model Trooper, Police Positive, and Detective Special models.

I guess I'll throw my 686 away then because I streched the hand two weeks ago to speed it up a little.

 

[BruceM]

I guess I'll throw my 686 away then because I streched the hand two weeks ago to speed it up a little.
Reply With Quote

Peening the advancing hand isn't a good way to fix this problem, especially when replacement parts to do it the correct way are relatively inexpensive. Then again, there's always going to be the "get the bigger hammer" type of mechanic out there. I believe there was an explanation as to why you don't remedy this issue in that particular manner. You can choose to heed this advice or not. For some, I guess the "bubba" approach will always get the nod.



Bruce

 

[mtncat]

Interesting. As a graduate of several S&W schools on their revolvers as well as the Yavapi Gun Smithing College and spending many years as both a gunsmith and Law Enforcement armorer back in the day. Peening the "hand" was the way it was taught and approved to solve this problem. Guess things change over the years.

 

[xopher88x]

I know this is easy for me to say, but I'd send it in and get it running right.

 

[remo]

I had a S&W model 66 with a 6" barrel that was shaving some of the jacket to the point that it would jam. Took it to a gunsmith and the barrel forcing cone was overly tight. He open up the forcing cone to 11 deg. I think but it has been about 20 years ago. At times I wish I still had it but sold it to get a S&W model 66 with a 3" barrel

 

[BruceM]

Peening the "hand" was the way it was taught and approved to solve this problem.

I think that you'll find that the "approved" method currently employed by the factory is replacing the hand with the correct OEM repair part but, I've been wrong before.

Changing the forcing cone angle to 11 degrees is a common modification, especially for those who are seriously occupied with shooting cast bullets. This should not be construed as meaning that the factory angle is "overly tight".

Bruce

 

[BruceM]

Discussion of repairing CDNCU:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/147591-how-fit-cylinder-hand-fix-timing.html

Bruce