1917 & the hunt for R October...

[Nicksterdemus]

1917 & the hunt for red October...

OK a catchy title that snagged your attention. My 1917, 11907x has a capital R, about the size of the flaming bomb, stamped just below and back(Diagonally) from the flaming bomb. It also has the R stamped after the s/n, before the eagles head on the barrel flat and it's stamped on the cylinder face. Anyone could've bought/borrowed a machinist hand stamp, yet because it's in all three of those places I'm wondering. There's already s/n in all of those spots. Why would the R be stamped on the three major components? What could the R stand for/represent?

 

[Nicksterdemus]

No ideas whatsoevah? Ya'll suck at sleuthin'.
Put your heads together and do a little brainstormin'.
All serial numbers match, pistola has been reblued so the R's could've been struck anytime before the newer finish. I'll speculate that while in the service of the goobermint that they didn't care about the finish. When were 1917's sold from official USA status to private hands or businesses? After WWII? The Korean conflict? I know they were used through the 2nd world war. MP's, security forces, USPS and who else? Three R's scattered don't make for a monogram and Richard Richie Rich would've bought two in Nickel and had them Gold plated w/Silver boolits.
So, it probably was redipped from the late 40's to the early 60's. Well fellers, that shore narrows the field down a mite...

 

[Jack Flash]

"Put your heads together and do a little brainstormin'."
Maybe it stands for "Rebuilt"

"Repaired" ? "ReFinished" ? These had such a long service life, passing through an unknown number of arsenals, (possibly including foreign arsenals), that it may be impossible to say for sure when it was done or by whom.

About government refinishing - a lot of these were Parkerized by Uncle Sam, so you can't say they didn't care about refinishing them.

"When were 1917's sold from official USA status to private hands or businesses?"
I believe they began being sold off as surplus starting right after WWI. The military considered them a war-time expedient, with the M1911 being the "official" pistol. With the war over, perhaps it was somewhat embarrassing to have these big revolvers around when auto-loaders were considered to be far superior by modern military thinkers.

During the Depression of the 1930s, M1917s were given to financial institutions in an effort to stem the outbreak of highly-publicized bank robberies by notorious outlaw gangs. Back then, most bank tellers were men, and they were fully expected to keep a gun handy and be ready to use it. Even Browning Automatic Rifles were issued to banks! Can you imagine our government taking this approach to crime fighting today?

Anyway, it's possible that any number of private businesses marked it with an R as a property mark (?) or for some other long-forgotten reason.

 

[Nicksterdemus]

Thanks for the information. I doubt seriously if I'll ever find out for sure, yet it's fun snoopin' 'round...

Redstone Arsenal, AL
Ramstein Air Base, Germany
Federal Reserve
Fort Richardson
Walter Reed Army Medical Center
Red River Army Depot
Rock Island Arsenal
Fort Riley
US Army Recruiting Command
Fort Ritchie

I'm kind of leaning(guessing) towards a government agency that was stamping the pistol to distinguish it(For what ever reason.) from military service. Could've been for nothing more than inventory. Somewhere though the clue, besides a capital R stamp, I feel is the three separate stamps marking the frame, cylinder & barrel. What, if anything, could make the separate parts important enough for all of them to receive their own stamp? They were already marked w/s/n though the tiny numbers are hard to eyeball while the R jumps right out at you...

 

[Texas Star]

Only I really know the answer to this:

This gun was once used as a prop in a pirate movie...R-R-R!

T-Star

 

[m-1911]

Reading Rail Road

 

[Nicksterdemus]

I like the pirate idea. If I evah put another finish on I'll borrow an A.
AAR...

Marine Raiders
Army Rangers
Roy Rogers
Lone Ranger
Right-Patterson AFB- Used to guard the Roswell UFO Remains. Top Secret, code, armourer was illiterate/couldn't find the W stamp.
John Glen's coz he had the Right stuff.
Carried by pilots that sprayed agent R'ange.
Range pistola
Rtillery
Requisitioned
Roswell
'Rea-51
Reaper as in grim
Reefer as in madness
Roy as in KilRoy as in Kilroy was here but only had time to stamp a R.

 

[rayj101]

A little off track, but I recall seeing some of the Panama Guardia Nacional armed with M1917s. This was circa 1968. Just info. Regards, Ray

 

[Nicksterdemus]

Nothing is off track on my post. That's interesting that 50 years later they were still being used as military issue. Thanks for sharing...

 

[stonefly]

perhaps it was there so the owner could always identify his gun while not defacing it too badly?
picture it...... an elderly man & wife go to the station to see if they can identify property after a break in. the old man speaks up right off "HEY, THATS RRRRR'S "

 

[Nicksterdemus]

"HEY, THATS RRRRR'S " Two R's too many!

The old buzzard is senile to boot...

 

[Buford57]

It stands for "Reject". Every marked part is defective and unsafe. I'll give you $50 for it and use it for a paperweight.

 

[Nicksterdemus]

I was gonna give it to for shipping until I received a notice that it stands for resurrected...

 

[Nicksterdemus]

My how time flies whilst youse 'avin' fun. Pushing 4 1/2 yrs, if my faculties aren't failing, since I snagged the 1917. Picked up a 25-2, though not pristine had most the paperwork, box, tools and a few pits, the other day. Being another S&W 45 acp wheelgun it started the wheels, rusty as they may be, to turning in the ole noodle again.

Anywho, I started thinkin' again about the capital R stamp on the old warhorse. W/o any other letter the possibilities are many. Speaking of letters I guess it could've belonged Roy Jinks.

Been a while, so I thought I'd drag this thread up to the brim from the dreg. Whenever they were produced the Model of 1917s were a very good year. Tip o' hat to Frank.

Perhaps Reichstag or one one of the Rat Pack.
Republic Pictures
Ronald Reagan

Railroad Rampage- Railroad Rampage - A free Shoot 'Em Up Game
Reserve, Armed Forces
Reserve, Gold
Roosevelt
Revolver, early stab at safety markings

Refinish, Reblue, Repair, Refurbished sure I suppose. Again, the capital R is on the frame just back and down from the flaming bomb and almost the same size. The barrel flat and cylinder are stanped w/SN, so why is the R placed there as well? There's enough room behind the extractor star, bur no R. At 11907X it's a bit past halfway in production. According to notes I've saved: Commercial sales of wartime production Model 1917's ended after Smith and Wesson had depleted it's wartime production supply on January 5th 1921.

I have no way of knowing if the R was there before the reblue or when it was blued.

I agree that this sidearm could've been allocated to another government agency or as mentioned financial institution. Lawd on knows how many different commercial sales took place or how many times this sidearm has changed hands. I didn't buy it because of the R stamps. I tend to be inquisitive though and R stands for something.

Something that begins w/an R.

 

[Muley Gil]

The arm companys often buy firearms for their product testing.

Might have belonged to Remington?????????? Maybe it was used while they were developing the .45 Auto Rim cartridge after WW I. That would be my story.

 

[wvmanchu]

Perhaps it was Refurbished by the US Army Ordnance Corps before being issued during WWII. Hence the R near the Ord.Symbol.

 

[Nicksterdemus]

Muley, I was trying to cipher how I could squeeze Remington into the fray. Thanks for lead.

MV, I just added refurbished and saw your post. If indeed that were the case I'd think there would be several other pistolas around w/same R stamp. I wouldn't have the only one and someone else surely would've asked the same or commented on the stamp. Being a war issue it's a popular piece among enthusiasts.

This one had the lanyard cut off, would've been the perfect spot for the R as it would've looked as a monogram, but the US Army Model 1917 & SN on the butt are clear well struck. 7 & L are a tad light possibly from preparation for the reblue. However, the stags that came on, who knows how long, are beveled on the butt around 30* exposing the butt more so than flush stocks.

Perchance after shooting up the indigenous Moro tribesmen, that refused request to kowtow to the great white long nosed hope, they left a few souvenirs marked R for Republic of Philippines. Or Rebellion.

 

[Sprefix]

Righteous is my incredibly intuitive two cents worth......It is a Smith.

 

[Nicksterdemus]

I like the odds on that over reconnaissance.

In a previous post I didn't intend to imply that I was the only person to have R stamped on a Modelo MCMXVII.

I just have yet to run across a post of someone else.

Reissue.

One thing about this model is that it probably was produced right before they heat treated cylinders. I thought maybe that had a bearing, but about 120K also didn't have the new fangled heat treated cylinders.
---
Ralph-Green Acres
Yes, it is a masculine name and she was a handyman though in this age of PC we dare not judge.

Ralph Kramden- Honeymooners
Sure, he was a big lug. but driving a bus in New York why wouldn't Raphie boy be packin'? Besides if he was squeezed he could ditch it in the sewer and have Norton snag it on lunch break.

I don't think a business would be likely to stamp three spots. Sounds more like gubbermint redundancy in triplicate. Then again, none are paying for my fledgling psychic abilities.

I have a 15-4 that has a N stamped on the cylinder, barrel flat & frame under the left stock for nickel. I pulled it out as it sports the faux ivory w/dark wood backing that also has the butt beveled around 30*. I believe these were determined to be Ajax grips. Marked 14 on the back listing a couple of other square butt K-frames that they would fit. The cream colour w/1/8-3/16" thick dark wood backing is a quite striking combo on the cheap.

 

[Muley Gil]

All 1917s were heat treated per a US Gov't requirement for that model.