2 Questions RE .380 Ammuntion
- Thread starter Smoke
- Start date
Better the .380 she will carry than the .45 she won't.
Besides, the sight of a gun ends 95% of encounters. Threats don't stick around to "check caliber" and recall its ballistics.
If that's the case why bother to load the gun? Just show it to the bad guy and watch him run. I want my wife to be as ready as possible for the 5% of time when the bad guy doesn't run.
ChattanoogaPhil
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I pocket carry an LCP.
The best ammo for these small pistols is what cycles flawlessly in your gun in your hands. I started with Hornady CD. 100%. Never tried anything else. Probably never will.
The best ammo for these small pistols is what cycles flawlessly in your gun in your hands. I started with Hornady CD. 100%. Never tried anything else. Probably never will.
Protected One
Member
Effective at what is a legitimate question, given that some speak in terms of "stopping the threat", while others speak in term of putting the threat "down". One does not necessarily=the other. So I ask... "effective at what?"
jimmib
US Veteran
I haven't been around this forum very long,but I have noticed there is usually controversy when the .380 is being discussed...interesting
That's just the internet in general. I've noticed that even when there is contraversy it's pretty civil
Protected One
Member
Very true. The controversy stems from the belief of some that the caliber is wholly inadequate, and apparently, everyone who doesn't subscribe to that belief are either too lazy to do what's necessary to carry a REAL caliber...or to stupid to know they should.
About every month someone raises a question about .380, that is what I was referring to in my first post when I said he "opened the can of worms...again"
That's interesting. Not enough penetration to stop the threat? How much penetration did they achieve? What were they trying to penetrate? Normal clothing? Leather? Bone?I've worked on two shootings with .380 Hydra-Shoks where they didn't adequately penetrate to be effective.
This question comes up a lot - here's the thread that was referenced above:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/98508-380-load-calling-erich.html
Look at the linkback links in that thread for hours and hours of reading.
This is directly in contradiction of the tests I've seen with 4 layers of denim over ballistics gel. Not doubting you, just trying to ascertain the facts and "the whole story".
May be time to switch my SD rounds in the little pocket pistol...
This topic always results in controversy, with some comments
becoming a bit vitriolic for no good reason really. I always like to read
the opinions of others, especially when those opinions are backed up
by a little more than the poster's own logical mind. Since I own several
380s and sometimes carry one I decided to do a little testing of my
own a while back. 380 HPs are pretty short and some just don't feed
very well. Chronographing revealed that some HPs, even though lighter
than FMJ were no faster than FMJs and even slower in some cases.
Shooting low velocity HPs, like 380s into wood is a waste of ammo.
I shot FMJs into landscape timbers, construction pine boards and
cedar mailbox posts. The most revealing test came when I shot FMJs
into a 12" stack of tightly bound watersoaked newspapers backed up
by 2x12 construction pine lumber. Virtually all of the FMJRNs behaved
like pointed FMJ rifle bullets in soft tissue and tumbled on their way
through the wet paper. Some impacted the wood in full broadside
profile. The exception was the Winchester FPs which remained point
forward but fail to impress me by chronographing about 50 fps slower
that other brand's RNs in my guns. All in all a deeply penetrating,
tumbling FMJRN seems the best choice for reliable effective ammo
for SD in 380 autos to me so that's what I load mine with. Feel free
to draw your own conclusions.
becoming a bit vitriolic for no good reason really. I always like to read
the opinions of others, especially when those opinions are backed up
by a little more than the poster's own logical mind. Since I own several
380s and sometimes carry one I decided to do a little testing of my
own a while back. 380 HPs are pretty short and some just don't feed
very well. Chronographing revealed that some HPs, even though lighter
than FMJ were no faster than FMJs and even slower in some cases.
Shooting low velocity HPs, like 380s into wood is a waste of ammo.
I shot FMJs into landscape timbers, construction pine boards and
cedar mailbox posts. The most revealing test came when I shot FMJs
into a 12" stack of tightly bound watersoaked newspapers backed up
by 2x12 construction pine lumber. Virtually all of the FMJRNs behaved
like pointed FMJ rifle bullets in soft tissue and tumbled on their way
through the wet paper. Some impacted the wood in full broadside
profile. The exception was the Winchester FPs which remained point
forward but fail to impress me by chronographing about 50 fps slower
that other brand's RNs in my guns. All in all a deeply penetrating,
tumbling FMJRN seems the best choice for reliable effective ammo
for SD in 380 autos to me so that's what I load mine with. Feel free
to draw your own conclusions.
And I've seen quite the uptick in .380 threads since the Glock was released. We stock .380 and since the middle of January, it's been flying off the shelves. We can't get the guns and Cabela's can't get the ammo. So it goes...
The .380 has been a wholly inadequate caliber to some of the Perfection Crowd. Of course, now it's a different tune.
Smoke, I think you made the right choice. As long as it feeds flawlessly, the flat point does offer more then the round nose.
The .380 has been a wholly inadequate caliber to some of the Perfection Crowd. Of course, now it's a different tune.
Smoke, I think you made the right choice. As long as it feeds flawlessly, the flat point does offer more then the round nose.
venomballistics
Member
I've worked on two shootings with .380 Hydra-Shoks where they didn't adequately penetrate to be effective.
This question comes up a lot - here's the thread that was referenced above:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/98508-380-load-calling-erich.html
Look at the linkback links in that thread for hours and hours of reading.
look at the caliber .. 380 if often regarded as the dead minimum for defense.
Dead minimum ... meaning they took every nickle out of it till it would not work, then put a dime back in.
Use hardball in the 380. Its budget is entirely spent on getting a chunk of hardball to effective depth and cannot spare much at all for trade bait.
Use of a hollow point trades off that penetration for terminal upset.
you may gain some small amount of terminal upset, however it will be at the expense of penetration. which will now be inadequate.
anything larger adds to the budget to where it can afford some tradeoff.
Your wife might not carry anything larger than an LCP at this time ... However shooting and carrying are two different things. See if you cant get her hands around a few full sized autos, perhaps a 357 revolver ... all "too big to carry".
This tames the recoil.
She stands to discover that a 1911 is quite manageable, and the word Magnum is nothing to be afraid of. sometime thereafter .. the LCP becomes negotiable
Linejudgemick
Member
Everyone has an opinion - as do I, but rather than telling you what I've decided is best, I'll try to throw some data your way that hopefully will contribute to you making the best choice for you. The only real given, is to make sure the ammunition you choose is thoroughly tested and validated in the firearm you or your spouse use. The person whose link I posted below did what seems like a comprehensive series of 380 ammunition tests in a short barreled pistol. Watch, or disregard as you see fit. Best wishes in finding the ammunition you and your wife feels most comfortable using.
.380 ACP Ammo Quest - YouTube
.380 ACP Ammo Quest - YouTube
Biggfoot44
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The answer is that there is NO good answer
I'm not someone who obsesses about theoretical arbitrary minimum penetration thresholds. But .380 loads are clustered into two opposite clumps. No expansion , or moderate expansion and really short penetration. It's a matter of physics, the .380 is a low energy ctg , and within SAMMI presure levels there's not a lot of possabilities.
Yes , I used to carry a .380 as a BUG , during a particular point of history when a particular .380 was the best combination of size and power. ( Hint - my car had a carb ). What I carried was either SilverTip or Super Vel in the chamber ( which would expand , but not feed) , and a magazine of R-P 88gr jhp ( which would feed , but probably not expand).
After a year or two largely switched to S&W M37 w/ 158gr LHP for BUG duty. Once subcompact polymer 9mm's came about , jumped on one.
So if you just had to use a .380 , I say whichever major brand premimum JHP was 100% in your gun , in your hands.
For myself , if I want ( a semi ) larger than .32acp, I go directly to 9mm .
I'm not someone who obsesses about theoretical arbitrary minimum penetration thresholds. But .380 loads are clustered into two opposite clumps. No expansion , or moderate expansion and really short penetration. It's a matter of physics, the .380 is a low energy ctg , and within SAMMI presure levels there's not a lot of possabilities.
Yes , I used to carry a .380 as a BUG , during a particular point of history when a particular .380 was the best combination of size and power. ( Hint - my car had a carb ). What I carried was either SilverTip or Super Vel in the chamber ( which would expand , but not feed) , and a magazine of R-P 88gr jhp ( which would feed , but probably not expand).
After a year or two largely switched to S&W M37 w/ 158gr LHP for BUG duty. Once subcompact polymer 9mm's came about , jumped on one.
So if you just had to use a .380 , I say whichever major brand premimum JHP was 100% in your gun , in your hands.
For myself , if I want ( a semi ) larger than .32acp, I go directly to 9mm .
Maze 686
US Veteran
I carry Pow-R-ball now in my Sig P238. Great results in gel test, they tend to create a larger wound channel then fmj and penetrate more then jhp. The only other choice for me would be the critical defense bullets by Hornady.
venomballistics
Member
unless its deflected by the cranium, then its a bigger problem
Has nothing to do with recoil and everything to do with the weight of the pistol. My wife is arthritic, she can barely lift my 6906 and if she carries her CZ82 for any length of time her hips and back give her fits. If I could find a 3913LS or a 908 for her to try she might be able to manage one of those
ChattanoogaPhil
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A bit off topic, but considering your wife's circumstances I think that new Taurus View revolver might be worth looking into... pun intended
. Same weight as the LCP (actually .4oz lighter than LCP) and no fussing with being able to reliably shoot the LCP.shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
A bit off topic, but considering your wife's circumstances I think that new Taurus View revolver might be worth looking into... pun intended
For a light, reliable revolver I'd be much more likely to suggest a 642 or 442.
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