.22 LR Handgun for Self Defense? This Guy Seems To Think So

I actually considered using a 22lr for self defense after finding that FOR ME, accuracy is much better with either of my 22lr handguns (a Browning Buckmark with 6-inch barrel and a 617 with a 4-inch barrel) than with what I was carrying for self defense at the time (a 642) at more than about 4 yards distance. But my assessment of likely uses of a gun for self defense is that I am most likely to be shooting at even closer than 4 yards, and at that close range I am reasonably proficient with the 642. But then I bought a Ruger LC9s, and maybe it is the sights or maybe the excellent trigger but I can shoot this gun almost as well as the longer barreled 22's and far better than the 642 (or my 640 which has real sights). Plus this small semi carries 8 instead of 5, and is easier to conceal than a j-frame. So for now I would not consider using a 22 for SD, although there is no doubt that it is better than no gun at all. And if I ever needed a SURVIVAL gun that would serve multiple purposes including hunting small game, the hands down winner would be my 617.

And not to hijack a thread, is there any consensus on the best 22lr ammo for self defense?
 
My wife's night stand gun is a 617. Trying to work her up to the 627 w/.38special, but no luck yet.

Both will equally scare the person that has one pointed at them.
A person hit by a .22 round or two,will be thinking about exiting pretty quickly,if he can,and worrying about his own survival needs.
Those who consider a .22 hit as only a little more than a pellet hit,underestimate the round,especially since at least four more could be sent on their merry way.
 
Will a few .22's solve a serious social problem? It may or may not. As with all such things, there are so many variables that predicting the outcome is pretty difficult. I chose not to bet my survival on tiny guns and little bullets since I have other choices. If one has been in a shooting situation, one knows that the opportunity and ability to calmly place those little bullets in exactly the right places is rare. Point blank gunfights have resulted in both parties winding up with empty guns and no holes in either person...Besides, with present circumstances where are you going to get all these .22's to unleash in a swarm at that cooperative attacker?...Dang, I can get most any type of ammo other than .22's!
 
I don't have any experience using a .22 in a defensive situation, BUT, my son and I shoot in several .22 Bulls Eye leagues.

We fire about 6,000 rounds between the three leagues and practice very year. I use a S&W 41, he uses a Ruger MkIII Target.

Our experience is that we do get a failure rate of about 1 to 1.5 % w/ CCI Standard or equivalent ammo. My pistol is very ammo sensitive, I stick to the CCI exclusively, he can use a few others w/ his, lately Aguilar + Target or Federal. We still see the occasional FTF.

The most annoying thing we deal with is newbies that show up to shoot with ammo they haven't tested in their pistol, we have someone jamming on almost every relay some nights. Usually FTFs, some FTE's.

If the only firearm I had was a .22, then I would use it for defense, otherwise, CF.
 
USAF325 and mc5aw:
I have a Walther p22 I got in 2002. I had a lot of FTfeed and FTeject as well. I tried a number of different brands of ammo and found ones that worked every time, starting with CCI Stingers.
I also found it worked reliably with plated bullets rather than plain or lubed lead.

After that I was happy enough with it to buy the longer barrel. THAT caused some problems of its own, namely that it worked loose. I'm sure I could use ickumpucky to hold the screws, but I want to be able to switch back and forth. Sooo, I just recheck between every few magazines or so. I wouldn't consider the longer barrel for self-defense.

In my opinion, the Walther would be serviceability after you find a reliable ammo.
I also found it was sensitive to being clean. The lead bullets, even lubed, clogged it up pretty fast.
 
This discussion or, dare I say argument, has been ongoing forever. There are others just like it. For instance - .45 or 9mm? .22 LR or centerfire? .308 or .30-06?

There was a mantra going around some time ago that said friends don't let friends shoot mouseguns.....anyone recall that? Well, maybe so, but my theory has always been that any gun is better than no gun - and believe me, I carried a Beretta 950 BS in .25 ACP for around 20 years and I didn't spend any time worrying about the caliber. It was EASILY concealed - and that's what mattered until the law changed and I could obtain a CHL, at which point I switched to a 642.

I carried that Beretta in pants pockets routinely and I even had all of my suit coats modified - I had the left interior breast pocket removed and replaced with denim so the gun wouldn't wear through it - I carried that way more than in my pants pocket back when I was "dressed" routinely for work.

So, okay, it wasn't a .22, but my point is that it was a gun if I needed a gun for self defense. Except in movies you're probably never going to hear an attacker say "who do you think you're going to hurt with that?" - if you get attacked and pull a pistol out your attacker sees "GUN!!" and if you fire it, even if you miss, an attacker will be suitably impressed.

Downside? Sure. Even if you hit, if your attacker is 6'4", 300 pounds, drugged up, etc., he might not stop his attack from a single hit with a .22. Then, again, he might not stop from a single hit with my .38 Special, either, or even a .45 in a not so lethal place. But one can argue that the .22 is not a stopper - fine. I concede. But it IS a fight stopper if it's appearance dissuades an attacker from pursuing the attack. So, the argument goes back and forth.

I have several .22s, revolvers and pistols. None of them drops into my pants pocket like my .642. Ipso facto, that's my choice. But if I was inclined to carry one of my .22s instead of a .38 the concept would hardly bother me.

If I KNOW I'm headed to a gunfight and cannot bring a long arm I'm bringing a high capacity handgun in 9mm or .45 ACP. But since I never KNOW that, I don't plan for that; a J-frame works just fine. So would a super-concealable .22 if I had one.

One additional thought - it is at least a well established urban legend that mob hits are routinely done with .22s. Especially suppressed. Why? because they work. It is equally well established - and this is more fact than fiction - that the Mossad used Beretta Model 70 .22s for assassinations. You can hammer out a lot of rounds from a low recoiling .22 - that can make a big difference, especially if your marksmanship is good! Multiple shot placement is quite effective, even on the proverbial large, drugged out mugger.

So, while I do not carry a .22, I never gainsay a .22 - and I do keep a loaded .22 Magnum derringer around in the house - because it's handy and will accomplish what I need in first strike capability in the event of an attack at home.

***GRJ***
 
Again Yoda, there is a complete world of difference between a mobster putting a pistol point blank the side of a man's skull and pulling the trigger, especially considering the mob also used close friends and treachery to kill its own, and defending yourself from an aggressor. Mobsters didn't greet you with a pistol draw from high noon; they met you with a handshake, and killed you when you thought you were out to see your friend for coffee. They didn't choose it because it worked, they chose it because it was cheap and disposable.

Mossad, too, did not use silenced 22's in duels, or fights of any kind whatsoever. Again, it was cold blooded killing of someone who was not defending themselves, sometimes shooting people who did not even see it coming. They did not choose it for terminal ballistics, but rather, again, for disposability, size, and report.

I've shot steers in the head with a .22 rifle. I've snapped the necks of ducks in half with my old .22 rifle back years ago, with old iron sights at some considerable yardage. I've done my fair share with the old cartridge. Its because I've killed a lot with it, I don't trust it. The .22 is only effective in perfect, ambush style situations, where a man has the chance to call his shots perfectly. Its not that the .22 requires good shot placement, in order for it to work, it requires perfect shot placement for quick and effective kills. Steers shot in the head at the wrong angle will only wound them. Larger small game will continue to move wounded, if the shooter is careless enough not to place his shots correctly. Cheap and effective, but also requiring circumstances and shots that are far from the world of combat, at least on a level of consistency that is considered adequate.

I've seen people miss animals at 4 yards distance with a shotgun because they were not used to shooting that close, aimed with the sight, and shot under the animal. I've seen a man who could outshoot me in rifle on the range fail when a racoon at close range ran at him in a bid to escape, and he panicked. Nerve, pressure, time, range, all make a huge difference. I'm a better quick, in the field shooter than many that can outshoot me on a fair day at the range. I've seen people miss shots that they couldn't believe they could miss. Because of these things, I've considered the point of perfect shot placement, in close range, with limited time, and with stresses, to be a dangerous bet. If I can get a good pistolere to jerk a shot because of a 40 lbs. varmint on the farm, what might he do against a large human being assaulting him in a dark city street or parking lot?

You will hear from law enforcement and veterans about trained men breaking under stress. I've seen full grown men who are afraid to stomp on a rat. Even good shooters miss from time to time, as much as we don't like to talk about it. In a less than perfect world, with less than perfect people, and less than perfect shots, I simply won't endorse a caliber I know very well, and requires such close tolerances for shot placement to be effective.

I love my old .22's, both my High Standard pistol and old rifles, all of which I've done very well with. But with time, and the .22 shortage we all suffer, I've relegated all of them to target practice, and switched to pistol carbines for small game hunting for ethical reasons, and full size handguns for self defense for effectiveness. I love and respect the cartridge enough to know its limits.
 
Personally I like the simple challenge...if the .22 is so ineffective, stand there and let me shoot you. No sane person will do allow that.

The arguments about stress are irrelevant. The affect of stress on aim is the same regardless of caliber.
 
Personally I like the simple challenge...if the .22 is so ineffective, stand there and let me shoot you. No sane person will do allow that.

I wouldn't let you hit me with a spitball, either. That doesn't increase my respect for spitballs for self defense.
 
Idle mind on a Tuesday night.... :D

According to Greg Ellifritz' report, An Alternative Look at Handgun Stopping Power, the .22 is just as effective as any other caliber in stopping the bad guy from doing what he is doing with a single shot to the torso or head-- about 60%. Of course that includes psychological stops not just physical incapacitation.

Where the .22 falls short is failure to incapacitate after the first and subsequent hits, about 30% of the time compared to about 15% for most other calibers. In all, a .22 stops the bad guy about 70% of the time. From .380 on up stops the bad guy about 85% according to the data collected.

Greg's numbers are eerily consistent with calibers from .380 on up, so I tend to belive the numbers are telling a generally valid story. However, since the data collected includes professionals like police, it stands to reason that the.22 is over represented with non professionals. With well practiced shooters like on this forum, I think the rimfire gap in failure to incapacitate might not be so large.

Feel free to attack... ;)
 
Ok, I've finished my popcorn...

Rant on:
I think that, if a new CC'r is comfortable carrying a .22, for whatever reason(s), then they should. Eventually they'll get really comfortable with it. Then, if they are a regular shooter, they'll get comfortable with a .380, or maybe a .38 Special, or maybe a 9mm. I think that's the natural order of things.

Well, it was for me anyway.

Which brings us to....

....wait for it...

THE MIGHTY BOBCAT!!! Which I carried for sometime before moving up as described.

Rant off.
 

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I'm going to suggest that the guy in the clip in the original post to this thread is a bit over-enthused with his little Ruger .22 pistol. I'm not going to ever think the .22 is really suitable for personal self-defense, no matter how the argument rages.
 
Stinger is as close as you'll get to "defensive" .22 LR ammo. It's a lot more reliable than cheap bulk pack.

In 25+ years of shooting Stingers I can't recall having a dud and I must have fired 1,000's of them over the years. My Beretta Bobcat .22 loves them. They have more power than a .25 at least.

I also often carry a .22 LR NAA Mini revolver, it's so tiny it's one of those "the gun I carry when I can't carry a real gun" , with 5 rounds of Velocitors it makes a handy extreme emergency "if all else fails" carry gun. I even carry a .22 Short mini but I won't even try to defend that......:)

Sure, with a .44 Magnum a hit nearly anywhere is a fight stopper, not so with a .22. But then again I don't have any .44 Mag handguns that I can carry in windpants and a t-shirt. Plus women and older people can easily handle .22 LR revolvers and pistols given their low recoil and blast.
 

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