.22 Mag in J-Frames…What Models are There?? Would You CCW One??

[Dave686]

Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for Self Defense and Body Damage

Every shooting incident is a unique and unreplicable event. We cannot recreate these or even reliably use the data. We can, however, find the most destructive round we can handle and train with it regularly.

Anything else is a simple failure to prepare.

That pretty much says it all.

 

[smoothshooter]

Up until just a couple decades ago, .22 was THE most used caliber used in homicides in the US. Now of course, it's the 9mm. Placement of any round is key in stopping a threat; therefore, any caliber is better than not having any and training is key. If a person has a problem with recoil and accuracy, I see nothing wrong with getting a 22WMR, training with it, and carrying it. Nothing at all.

.22 ammo is cheap enough that the pistol owner is much more likely to practice.

 

[Nalapombu]

Thank you all very much for your help and advice. I appreciate it.

Have a good weekend all.

Larry

 

[RMFnLA]

The only time I carried a rimfire it was a NAA, and it misfired the one time I actually needed it.

Now my “mouse gun” is a Beretta Jetfire; .25 acp isn’t a powerhouse but it goes bang every time. Feeds better too, although of course that’s not an issue in a revolver.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

I went on the job in '73 so I've been happily carrying a J frame for fifty years. Always a five shot .38. My EDC now is a 442 no lock. A #36 is a house gun. But then there's the range. I've been keeping up some serious double action practice with a 3 inch 317. Light as a feather and 8 rounds. Very dependable with quality ammo. Bulk sucks.

With practice that heavy trigger is controllable and keeps the finger in shape for my carry gun. But then I'm thinking just how freakin fast I can rip off 8 shots to a tight center mass and who would want to be on the other side?

Well yeah, I'm still carrying the 442 because I can rip off 5 in a tight group too. But I've been training with these for fifty years so it's a natural. But push come to shove I would have no problem with just a .22 LR. Testifying about the eight rounds might be problematic.

Seven rounds of .22 mag sounds good, just be sure you shoot it well enough to be comfortable with your choice.

 

[MJK-MOD-547]

The J-Frame 650 .22 mag is accurate although if I was to shoot anyone one with it, it wouldn't be center mass.

 

[Cal44]

Back to the 32s. Ballistics by the inch shows the best 40 gr 22 mag at 946fps and a 30 at 1085 using a 2" barrel

The only 32 H&R load tested was an 85 gr at 845 using a 2" barrel.

Other sources report a 85gr S&W long at 700fps from a 2" barrel

Any of the J frame 32s can easily handle being reamed to 32 H&R and it doesn't take a hour do do it

An extra 100fps does not make up for being 1/2 the weight, nor does 250fps make up for being 1/3 the weight.

2" barrel realities
946fps 40 gr 22 mag = 79ft/lb
700fps 85gr 32S&W long = 92ft/lb
845fps 85gr 32H&R mag=134ft/lb
814fps 110 gr 38 special+p=162ft/lb
756fps 135gr gold dot 38 spec=171ft/lb

The 32 isn't as powerful as a 38, but they do give you a 6th round and less recoil. Either 32 beats the 22 mag and the H&R does it with almost 70% more energy.

I own exactly 1 22mag cylinder that I can use in a K22. If I want more than a 22lr, I jump right over the 22 mag

When loaded with Buffalo Bore 32 long 100 gr wadcutters BB reports 872 fps out of a 30-1 with 3" barrel.

That works out to 169 ft lbs muzzle energy.

So even a 32 long revolver out classes 22 mag and gets near the low end 38s.

Out of the 2" 31-1 I used to carry it's a bit less. About 148 ft lbs if I remember correctly.

 

[steelslaver]

When loaded with Buffalo Bore 32 long 100 gr wadcutters BB reports 872 fps out of a 30-1 with 3" barrel.

That works out to 169 ft lbs muzzle energy.

So even a 32 long revolver out classes 22 mag and gets near the low end 38s.

Out of the 2" 31-1 I used to carry it's a bit less. About 148 ft lbs if I remember correctly.

If it dropped to 840ftps it would be 840x840x100/450240=157ft/lb

In a steel frame the recoil would be low, more reliable ignition than a rim fire, better DA trigger pull. Even in my alloy J frames the S&W long has little recoil.

 

[chief38]

I would not carry a rimfire cartridge gun for SD because of the nature of rimfire failures to fire. Yes, they failure rate has gone down somewhat over time and better manufacturing methods are now in place, but it has not gone away.

The other reason is that although the 22 magnum is a whole lot more powerful than the regular long rifle rounds, it's still not a large centerfire cartridge. Personally, I'd relegate it to small game, varmints and target shooting but that is just me. YMMV.

 

[Cal44]

How much of an issue is the often mentioned failure to fire of 22 mag refire -- really.

I ask this because I've shot a lot of 22mag and even more 22lr and had very few ftf's or squibs or other failures.

Center fire cartridges aren't perfect either.

Also, with more expensive defensive ammo like Gold dots, or critical defense one would expect better quality than the cheap stuff I shot as a kid.

Is this really an issue?

 

[BAM-BAM]

No...... I'd rather have a centerfire .32acp. or Steelslaver's .32 revolver!!!

First it must go ""BANG!"

.22mag is a great round out of a rifle .. muzzle energy of a 9mm IIRC... but mostly flash out of a short barreled handgun!

 

[Mike-AK]

How much of an issue is the often mentioned failure to fire of 22 mag refire -- really.

I ask this because I've shot a lot of 22mag and even more 22lr and had very few ftf's or squibs or other failures.

Center fire cartridges aren't perfect either.

Also, with more expensive defensive ammo like Gold dots, or critical defense one would expect better quality than the cheap stuff I shot as a kid.

Is this really an issue?

I think folks are extrapolating their experiences with Thunderbolt, Wildcat and El Cheapo Aguila rimfire ammo.

 

[Data]

Certainly the .22 Magnum is an intriguing cartridge, but I consider it a "niche" cartridge for sure. As for the deciding factor of which J-Frame chambering ... The .38 Special is the logical way to go, according to professional expertise. Hence, S&W's Centennial model(s) 442, and or 642. Like others have said, the centerfire is tops when it comes to reliable ignition ... which is something to really consider if your life is at stake.

 

[malph]

No...... I'd rather have a centerfire .32acp. or Steelslaver's .32 revolver!!!

First it must go ""BANG!"

.22mag is a great round out of a rifle .. muzzle energy of a 9mm IIRC... but mostly flash out of a short barreled handgun!

It's true you lose velocity in a short barrel but 22mag is still faster than 22lr in the short barrel.

It's not the end all, be all out of a short barreled revolver but the gelatine/denim tests show it to be better than you might think.

It has a place, particularly for those that can't or won't handle 38spc out of a snub.

I agree with those on this thread that the centerfire .32s are a better choice but the guns and the ammo are not exactly widely available these days.

 

[BAM-BAM]

malph..... IMHO with the .22mag. revolver be prepared to pull the trigger multiple times. Double or triple tap.

I've had great success with quality .22 mag ammo in my Ruger and CZ rifles.....don't remember a misfire.

If the OP or others are happy/comfortable with the .22mag. go for it...... but they asked our "opinions"..... which is all they are... and worth what they paid for them!

 

[Data]

@ Nalapombu

Does anyone carry one of these models? If so, how do you like them?

Would you carry one or stay with the models in the larger calibers?

I think the .38 Special is the better of choice. For out of the box reliability it's top notch! Again, a centerfire cartridge will give you ignition reliability as compared to the rimfire cartridge.

Side note: It's too bad that S&W no longer produces .32 caliber in Airlite J-Frame Series. Honestly, I think they would sell like hotcakes these days. There seems to be a lot of interest.

What models does S&W offer in .22 Magnum that are made specifically for CCW?

1. S&W 351 C - aka Centennial Model - double action only
2. S&W 351 PD - aka Chiefs Model - single/double action

Yes, I do own the S&W Model 351 C, as well as the 43 C chambered in .22 LR. As for the 351 C, its designated mode of carry (niche) is for hiking only. Albeit, a bit of contradiction for "stopping power" ... in relation to caliber effectiveness. i.e. bears, cougars, and coyotes. I digress. The 351 C is a dream to carry. It's very light in weight, and has 7 rounds. It has very sharp report, and is accurate. As noted, the .22 Magnum is not a centerfire cartridge, which is a negative in terms of reliable ignition. That being said, it's something to consider when it comes to self-defense and eliminating a disastrous outcome. I never recommend a rimfire cartridge for self-defense. As for my 351 C I carry it by personal choice knowing all the pros and cons concerning reliability. As for ammo, I use CCI, Federal, Hornady, Speer and Winchester. They have all been reliable to this date. It's got a hard trigger pull and I'm ok with that. Again, I want to eliminate any possible malfunctions that is in my power. IF you want a lighter trigger pull, then roll with the 351 PD which is single/double action. However, you will need to practice with it a lot for a smooth and seamless draw without snagging it on clothing.

Well, that's all I got for now, just my two cents worth.

Best,
Data

smith-wesson.com

.22 Magnum - 351 PD Single/Double Action Only* MSRP @ $839.00
.22 Magnum - 351 C Double Action Only MSRP @ $759.00
.38 Special - 442 Double Action Only, No Lock MSRP @ $539.00
.38 Special - 642 Double Action Only, No Lock MSRP @ $539.00

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

That bit about .22’s is far from a true statement.
You are kidding, I assume.
I suspect lots of EMT’s, LEO’s and ER people who post here would could attest to the stopping power of the rim fires.
As someone has previously alluded to, reliable rim fire ignition CAN be a problem in some guns with some ammo.

From my LEO experience, you are not taking the fight out of an enemy with a .22. It does wound people. It is popular for executions too.

.38 Special is significantly a better choice. My BUG was always a.38 Special even after we went to 9mm and later .45 ACP in the 4506.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Bill Jordan said, in his book No Second Place Winner …

So based on what Bill wrote in 1963?

Things have changed and in Law Enforcement no one carries a 158 grain LRN. But that is my Police Department when I was a rookie and that worked.

 

[djohns6]

I don't think anybody here is saying that the .22 is a preferred round for self defense . Sometimes it's the only option .

 

[.38SuperMan]

How much of an issue is the often mentioned failure to fire of 22 mag refire -- really.

I ask this because I've shot a lot of 22mag and even more 22lr and had very few ftf's or squibs or other failures.

Center fire cartridges aren't perfect either.

Also, with more expensive defensive ammo like Gold dots, or critical defense one would expect better quality than the cheap stuff I shot as a kid.

Is this really an issue?

I’m not sure I’ve ever had a 22wmr ftf but I’ve not shot nearly as many as I have 22LR. A lot of folks complain about a lot of ftf but I’ve experienced very few. My wife and I shoot a lot of 22LR and shoot cheap bulk Federal, Aguila, Armscor, Winchester, Remington and some more expensive CCI. Rarely do we have a misfire and we shoot a variety of revolvers and rifles.

Having said that and having previously had very reliable performance out of Armscor, the last range session I had 3 defective rounds out of one box of 50 rounds. I attempted to fire each cartridge three times by taking it out of the cylinder and rotating the case to get the firing pin to dent the rim in a different place. After 3 attempts neither would detonate. For what it’s worth, I was shooting a Colt Diamondback that was clean and lubricated. This is rare but can and does happen.

Prior to those three I hadn’t had a misfire in quite some time. In general I’d say most ftf occur when a carbon ring builds up in the cylinder which prevents the cartridge from seating fully. I always clean my guns well and keep them lived and attribute the reliability I have to a clean gun as well as not monkeying with springs and components getting your gun out of spec.

Other folks will state that they have constant problems. So why do some of us rarely have a misfire out of a dozen diffrrrnt firearms and others have constant problems.