.25 ACP ballistic test-vs .22 Long Rifle

[David LaPell]

I have heard and read over the years the many sources about how weak the little .25 ACP is on penetration, so I decided to try it out for myself. I took my little Walther 8 pistol and a 50 grain Remington FMJ and filled four 1 gallon jugs with water and placed them back to back in line. The shot was from 6 yards away. I was hoping that the .25 would go through two if I was lucky. Nope, all four jugs and the bullet kept right on going. It was not recovered.

 

[venomballistics]

I see the caps are still on the jugs which indicates a weak pressure spike. try this test again with a 22 LR .. the spike usually takes the caps off

 

[handejector]

I feel better now.
Just the other day, I had an altercation with a milk jug. I let it go with a good beating, but if Ida had my pistol.......

Seriously, if possible, always get European ammo for the 25. Sellier & Bellot used to offer it. NOTICEABLY hotter.

 

[David LaPell]

I'm doing some research on the .25 ACP for an article I am hoping to put together, and I am finding out some very interesting facts. I have always found it hard to believe that this cartridge can have such a negative history, but it has been in production for over 100 years. One of the reasons the .25 has gotten such a bad reputation, is some of the crappy guns made for it. The other is that the .25 was never meant to be a primary defense gun, it was always meant to be a back up or pocket gun. There have been a couple of cases that really showed that the .25, while certainly no dedicated manstopper, is also better than nothing. One was the killing of Prince Ali Kamel Fahmy Bey, an Egyptian who was shot three times with a Browning .25 by his wife, Madam Marie-Marguerite Fahmy. Fahmy dropped right where he stood. It seems the Prince was quite abusive towards his wife, and when he came for her, she was ready.
Another case was the celebrated Hooded Man Case where a British Police Inspector surprised a burglar and was struck with a single slug from a .25 ACP. The Inspector never stood a chance. So the .25 is certainly not on par with the .380 and certainly not even close to the 9mm, but it certainly has some intersting history behind it too, and its beginning to look as though it might not be the weakling on paper that it has been advertised to be. For a back up gun, for what it was intended to be, the .25 might not be all that bad.

 

[K.38]

I always liked what Col. Jeff Cooper said about the .25. If you shoot someone with a .25 and he finds out about it he is really going to be mad at you.

 

[TAC]

.25 ACP ballistic test:

FIRE...ouch...TEST COMPLETED

 

[chief38]

Don't really understand why you would even consider carrying a .25 for self defense when in the same sized package you could get a .380 (which IMHO is still under powered for self defense work), but a noticeable improvement. If a .25 is the only gun you own and could not afford to purchase a more powerful weapon, than I suppose it is better than a knife.

I know there have been lots of people killed with .22's & .25's, but the idea behind a defense gun is to stop the threat as soon as possible, not have the perp. simply die hours later after he has inflicted bodily harm on you.

I own .22, .25, .32 & .380 caliber guns, but NEVER use them for self defense work. My gun of choice is either a Model 65 .357 or a Model 60 stoked with Buffalo Bore 158 Gr. +P ammo.

As Handejector states, when is the last time you were threatened by water filled milk jugs?

 

[roundgunner]

I remember years ago hearing a story about a man shot in the face with a .25acp. The round stopped after going thru the skin and getting to the cheekbone. He was supposed to have pulled it out with his fingers.

He probably was mad too.

 

[lalodad]

if you point a 25 at me i would still go the other way. they are better than notheing.

 

[chief38]

Yes, they are better than nothing, but an ideal carry piece is supposed to be something you have confidence in and will most likely get the job done fast. If you have a choice in life, make the best decision that you can afford. It may one day save your life!

 

[johngalt]

I'm not going to volunteer to be shot with one.

 

[chief38]

NOR WOULD I, BUT I WOULD WANT TO BE SHOT EVEN LESS WITH A .357 MAGNUM.

 

[handejector]

Like I said, test some Euro ammo.
I shot a 55 gal drum with W-W 25 ACP. It punched a large 3/8-1/2" hole in one side, and only dented the other! Turned out the slup was lead with the Lubaloy jacket, which is really just thin copper plating.
The same day, I shot some of the early S&B that had the nickel plated STEEL jackets. BOTH sides of the drum looked they had been punched with a 1/4" punch, barely deformed or rolled inward. The slugs were too deep in a clay bank to dig out by hand.
You would not wear that S&B round home.

 

[H Richard]

At age 14 I was shot with a 25 out of a Mauser 1910. Total penetration of my left upper arm, luckily not hitting any bone. Was a German mfg bullet, steel jacket. I felt nothing, was hot enough to penetrate quickly and no expansion. I would not want to be shot by one again.

 

[scooter123]

While I wouldn't want to be shot by one, I remember one newspaper report of a man who was shot 3 times with a 25 ACP by an armed robber. Not one single round penetrated through his leather bombers jacket, his only injury was 3 small welts or bruises. As for the armed robber, he shouldn't have chosen to take on an ex paratrooper, his elbow was completely dislocated when his victim got mad and disarmed him. Probably crap ammo, but still, if it won't go through cowhide I'm not going to carry one.

 

[Cyrano]

My first CCW course was conduced by members of the local sheriff's department. They said the last 12 shooting death cases handled by the country coroner were done with 25s.

 

[Engineer1911]

My purple fanny pack has a Para P-13 .45 loaded with alternating Silver Tips and Black Talons. Who says variety doesn't work.

 

[rocketdog]

Here's a bit of interesting history, dreadful, concerning Blokhin the executioner and the .25acp....


Vasili Blokhin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[chief38]

I will say once again, but in a different way............I think that some people responding here are confusing killing power with stopping power. Yes, no doubt that a .25 is able to end someone's life; but that is NOT THE PURPOSE of shooting someone. The purpose is to stop them from doing harm as fast as possible. This is much easier to achieve with a more powerful round that has a lot more shocking power.

We can argue all day long about the "killing power" of a certain caliber. A person who is unarmed and is shot in the back of the head at point blank range will most likely die............but how many criminals are going to "pose" for you so you can do that to them. Let's talk about reality. The more mass, weight and speed a bullet has, the more likely it is to stop someone in a timely fashion. For me (personally) I would not consider carrying less than a 38 special +p, and that is by no means the most optimum round, just a minimum (at least for me).

If the only gun I had was a .25, and I could not afford to upgrade, then yes I would find the best and most reliable ammo, and practice as much with it as I could. I would however do my best to upgrade as quickly as possible.

Regards,
chief38

 

[DGNY]

.25 ACP

We all know the 2.5 ACP is tiny and has an indifferent reputation. Still, interesting to have the discussion, including reference to stronger versions/loadings.

It's is sort of the reverse of discussing 500 S&W, when folks might say we don't need such a strong cartridge. Nonetheless, they both invite our study.

Thanks for the insights.

Regards,

Dyson