30 carbine short in 30 carbine

[Fuch]

hello all
I need your help regarding 30 carbine reloading: I recovered a large batch of 30 carbine "short" cartridge cases used only in France for a regulatory issue which prohibited war calibers so they shortened the cartridge cases 30 of 1 millimeter in inch: 30 carbine=1.28inch, 30 short=1.14inch knowing that these cartridges are slightly conical can I use these reloaded cartridge cases in my winchester 30 carbine without problems??

 

[AJ]

hello all
I need your help regarding 30 carbine reloading: I recovered a large batch of 30 carbine "short" cartridge cases used only in France for a regulatory issue which prohibited war calibers so they shortened the cartridge cases 30 of 1 millimeter in inch: 30 carbine=1.28inch, 30 short=1.14inch knowing that these cartridges are slightly conical can I use these reloaded cartridge cases in my winchester 30 carbine without problems??

Never heard of it before. The answers ought to be interesting.

 

[Rubone]

My thought would be no, with a tapered cartridge if shortened the bullet diameter could be bigger or the shape of the chamber different, both scenarios preventing viable compatibility.

 

[Greyman50]

IIRC the 30 Carbine cartridge head spaces on front of case , 1.290" so a shorter case would not function.

 

[Rule3]

IIRC the 30 Carbine cartridge head spaces on front of case , 1.290" so a shorter case would not function.

Yep, it headspaces on the mouth. I also never heard of it


Maybe in a Ruger revolver??

 

[jjrr]

I don't think there would be any harm in trying a few. Any idea what chamber dimensions are on the French 30. I recall someone who had trimmed carbine brass too short and in the end it worked ok, I think the big problem with carbine brass and the headspace is is with brass too long..

 

[murphydog]

I would think a .30 Carbine Short would be made with the intent of no interchangeability with a standard gun, in either direction. So I doubt they will work in a longer standard chamber, especially if the cases headspace on the mouth.

 

[Muley Gil]

As noted above, .30 caliber carbine ammo is designed to headspace on the case mouth. Now if the extractor holds the case head tight enough for the firing pin to hit the primer, it would probably work.

 

[murphydog]

Perhaps you need to find a gun in .30 Carbine Short. Just to have something in which you can use the brass, of course.

 

[rosewood]

As noted above, .30 caliber carbine ammo is designed to headspace on the case mouth. Now if the extractor holds the case head tight enough for the firing pin to hit the primer, it would probably work.

I agree. May put extra stress on the extractor. I know folks that shoot 40 in a 10mm semi-auto and say there are no issues. I feel it can stress the extractor overtime, but have no hard data to prove it.

Rosewood

 

[rockquarry]

hello all
I need your help regarding 30 carbine reloading: I recovered a large batch of 30 carbine "short" cartridge cases used only in France for a regulatory issue which prohibited war calibers so they shortened the cartridge cases 30 of 1 millimeter in inch: 30 carbine=1.28inch, 30 short=1.14inch knowing that these cartridges are slightly conical can I use these reloaded cartridge cases in my winchester 30 carbine without problems??

Can you go into more detail regarding where you came across that information?

 

[2152hq]

Iver Johnson made some M1 CArbines for the French in the '80's chambered for the 'Short 30M1 Round

Scroll down to the 'Special French Short' M1 CArbine section.

Iver Johnson Arms

There's some info one the ammo source there as well.

Added:
If you want a fairly long read, the entire 4 or 5 parts of that 'Iver Johnson Story' are untangled fairly well inspite of how complicated it is.
The names, places 'business deals' and supporting characters are very interesting to say the least.

 

[AJ]

Iver Johnson made some M1 CArbines for the French in the '80's chambered for the 'Short 30M1 Round

Scroll down to the 'Special French Short' M1 CArbine section.

Iver Johnson Arms

There's some info one the ammo source there as well.

Thanks, learn something new everyday!!

 

[ReloadforFun]

Sounds like cartridge collectors may be interested. Even as reloads, the rarity should make them of interest.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

My thought is: The French have a short chamber. So, they require short ammo! A standard chamber with 1/10" short case MAY work, If it doesn't, try backing the sizing back to standard length, you may need to neck size the last .100 with a 32 ACP or 32 S&W die to get neck enough tension. At this point you are head spacing off the body taper and feeding may get a little tricky.

But what ever you do, your chamber is not the problem!

If you have over 100 of this short brass, it would be worth the effort, Fewer? that is a judgement call. Good luck.

Ivan

 

[Fuch]

My thought is: The French have a short chamber. So, they require short ammo! A standard chamber with 1/10" short case MAY work, If it doesn't, try backing the sizing back to standard length, you may need to neck size the last .100 with a 32 ACP or 32 S&W die to get neck enough tension. At this point you are head spacing off the body taper and feeding may get a little tricky.

But what ever you do, your chamber is not the problem!

If you have over 100 of this short brass, it would be worth the effort, Fewer? that is a judgement call. Good luck.

Ivan

yes I collected around 200 cartridge cases, and new 30 carbine cartridges are quite expensive here in Belgium: 34€/50 so it is worth trying to reload them, I measured the conicity of a normal 30 and that of a 30 short, there is very little difference 1a2 /100 of a millimeter

 

[Fuch]

Can you go into more detail regarding where you came across that information?

I shoot normal 30 carbines, and the batch of 200 cartridge cases that I collected are shorter cartridge cases for French rifles only, these short 30 cartridges are no longer used, the French legislation on these weapons has changed and these rifles are no longer used. most people are interested in, it is impossible to shoot 30 normals in a 30 short carbine, but the opposite may be possible hence my question, I don't want to break my Winchester 30 carbine from 1944 which is almost new condition ii

 

[Fuch]

My thought is: The French have a short chamber. So, they require short ammo! A standard chamber with 1/10" short case MAY work, If it doesn't, try backing the sizing back to standard length, you may need to neck size the last .100 with a 32 ACP or 32 S&W die to get neck enough tension. At this point you are head spacing off the body taper and feeding may get a little tricky.

But what ever you do, your chamber is not the problem!

If you have over 100 of this short brass, it would be worth the effort, Fewer? that is a judgement call. Good luck.

Ivan

I shoot normal 30 carbines, and the batch of 200 cartridge cases that I collected are shorter cartridge cases for French rifles only, these short 30 cartridges are no longer used, the French legislation on these weapons has changed and these rifles are no longer used. most people are interested in, it is impossible to shoot 30 normals in a 30 short carbine, but the opposite is perhaps possible hence my question, I don't want to break my Winchester 30 carbine from 1944 which is in the almost new condition

 

[Fuch]

My thought would be no, with a tapered cartridge if shortened the bullet diameter could be bigger or the shape of the chamber different, both scenarios preventing viable compatibility.

there is only 1 to 2/100 of a millimeter difference in conicity between the 30 normal and the 30 short and 1 millimeter difference in length, in a revolver I am certain that there would be no problems like with a 357 mag that shoots 38 special but with my rifle??

 

[Fuch]

Perhaps you need to find a gun in .30 Carbine Short. Just to have something in which you can use the brass, of course.

in Belgium these short 30 rifles are impossible to find, and in France the short 30 ammunition is rare and very expensive 1.5 x the price of the normal 30, I much prefer to shoot with my original Winchester 30 from 1944 which came with the Boys in Normandy