.30supercarry

[Echo40]

I honestly feel that the firearms market has pretty well stagnated at this point, hence why even when a new cartridge is introduced with an actual tangible benefit or compelling features, it goes largely overlooked.

For example, consider the .357 SIG, a cartridge designed to duplicate the performance of a .357 Magnum FBI Load out of a 4" Barrel. It was relatively powerful, penetrated hard barriers like autoglass while maintaining a flat trajectory with enough energy to reach vitals, and could fit in the same size frame as the popular 9mm/.40 firearms of the time, yet only a few police departments adopted it, so it never really caught on and has since faded into relative obscurity. (Last I heard, SIG stopped chambering the P320 in .357 SIG.)

Another example would be .458 SOCCOM in Rifles, a cartridge designed to duplicate the performance of a modest .45-70 load out of a standard AR-15 Pattern Rifle, using standard, unmodified AR-15 Magazines. It's one of the most powerful cartridges you could possibly fire out of an AR-15, yet it never really caught on, always overshadowed by otherwise gimmicky AR cartridges which only featured a minor increase in performance if any, with some benefit which was only situationally useful for specific builds like higher velocity out of shorter barrels or better accuracy.

Of course, there are many other examples of cartridges with otherwise compelling, entirely tangible benefits, yet they were completely overlooked. So it's really not surprising that .30 Super Carry didn't catch on either when it really didn't have much at all going for it besides marginally higher magazine capacity in 9mm sized pistols.

It honestly seems like the only way to make a splash in the civilian firearms market is to first score a major government contract which in turn becomes widely adopted by law enforcement agencies across the country, since civilians mostly turn to law enforcement for an example of what they would be best suited to carry, ergo cartridges like .30 Super Carry which were designed to appeal towards the civilian concealed carry market don't stand a chance.

Granted, since there's clearly a demand for it, if .30 Super Carry could somehow be finangled into a smaller frame pistol comparable to that of .380 Pocket Pistols, then it could sell, but seeing as it was clearly never designed with Pocket Pistols in mind, that's pretty well impossible. Perhaps if it were shortened, downloaded to less extreme pressures, and rebranded as ".30 Micro Carry" then it might be more compelling, but that would come at the expense of being comparable to 9mm in power, thus likely making it too similar to .380 ACP.
Still, I think that it would be possible to accommodate .30 Super Carry in an intermediate frame size between a Pocket Pistol like the Ruger LCP and a Micro Compact like the SIG P365, or perhaps just a beefed up, Ruger LCP, but then it would likely inherit the same degree of limited longevity which many of the popular Pocket Pistols such as the LCP are known and ridiculed for.
Unfortunately, there's just no such thing as a free lunch in that regard. You can either have a durable pistol that can hold up to a lifetime of weekend shooting, or you can have a featherweight pistol that can be comfortably carried 24/7.

 

[M29since14]

45,000 PSI MAP in a small, plastic-frame pistol doesn't much appeal to me. 9x19 +P is bad enough. For that reason alone, I'll pass. That round in a 1911-size pistol just seems…

 

[Alk8944]

I didn't understand why they called the .30 S.C. when it is really a .32. But then .32 caliber cartridges have not been very successful in the U.S. although Europeans have thoroughly embraced it! Basically it is the 7.65 French MAS loaded to much higher pressure.

If I were younger and not living on a pension and Social Security I would be interested in playing with if it was chambered in other guns Since I have always been a ".32 Guy" since I bought my first S&W .32-20 about 60 years ago. Only other .32 fans would understand, and if you aren't, you won't! But don't bad mouth this cartridge because you aren't one.

I just wish all of you that think you are authorities would just shut-up and let the market decide instead of trying to discourage new shooters with your biased comments!

The same with so many who claim the .40 S&W dead or worthless because it isn't the 10mm, it wasn't intended to be! It has been around 33 years now and still going strong in spite of your constant harping/carping! That is pretty successful in the firearms field!

 

[Rpg]

There's nothing wrong with this new cartridge.

But it isn't an improvement on an existing cartridge as the 40 cal is to the 10mm, and it doesn't offer better performance as the 357 does compared to the 38 special.

I have no interest in buying one: it doesn't do anything better than a 9 mm except hold an extra round or two.

That's not worth the money I'd have to spend on the gun.

 

[Shibadog]

Hi-point is making it in their carbine.

Now there's a quality option. Nothing says"quality firearm" quite like a zinc alloy

 

[AJ]

Now there's a quality option. Nothing says"quality firearm" quite like a zinc alloy

Not that I am advocating the High Points, but the statement reminds me of the old "Saturday Night Specials". The price and quality is what most determine a SNS to be. I look at it from an economic standpoint. Folks that can afford s $1000 firearm tend to look down on a very less expensive firearm. If you make a 100+K a year you buy what you can afford Someone making less than 25K a year buys what they can afford. So "Zinc Alloy" vs Stainless Steel is just where you fit in the Social-Economic scale.

 

[Shibadog]

Not that I am advocating the High Points, but the statement reminds me of the old "Saturday Night Specials". The price and quality is what most determine a SNS to be. I look at it from an economic standpoint. Folks that can afford s $1000 firearm tend to look down on a very less expensive firearm. If you make a 100+K a year you buy what you can afford Someone making less than 25K a year buys what they can afford. So "Zinc Alloy" vs Stainless Steel is just where you fit in the Social-Economic scale.

I agree to a point. Thing is there are an awful lot of "used" weapons of much higher quality on the market that I'd feel a lot better defending home and family with. With that said, the Hi Points DO work. They're butt ugly, physically large and cumbersome pistols but they do seem to function. Neighbor has one of the 9 mm carbines and he seems to like it. It's surprisingly accurate.

 

[AJ]

I agree to a point. Thing is there are an awful lot of "used" weapons of much higher quality on the market that I'd feel a lot better defending home and family with. With that said, the Hi Points DO work. They're butt ugly, physically large and cumbersome pistols but they do seem to function. Neighbor has one of the 9 mm carbines and he seems to like it. It's surprisingly accurate.

It all boils down to what you can afford. I can buy any of the major manufacturers guns that I want, as I can afford them, heck maybe even a Korth if I wanted one and saved a few ducats to do so. However, the folks in the lower economic stratosphere can not, hence the need for High Points, Jennings, etc.... Getting off the subject now. PM me if you want to continue this discussion.

AJ

 

[STORMINORMAN]

The HighPoint JPX10 has proven (at least to me?) to be an excellent, affordable, reliable and very accurate 10mm platform... A BIG TIME Bang for the Buck!

Their 10mm carbine is equally very highly reviewed and is a huge seller.

Cheers!

P.S. More expen$ive does not ALWAYS insure that something is actually "better"...

 

[smithra_66]

There's nothing wrong with this new cartridge.

But it isn't an improvement on an existing cartridge as the 40 cal is to the 10mm, and it doesn't offer better performance as the 357 does compared to the 38 special.

I have no interest in buying one: it doesn't do anything better than a 9 mm except hold an extra round or two.

That's not worth the money I'd have to spend on the gun.

People want a tiny, tic-tac sized gun nowadays but with massive capacity. Power is no longer a factor nowadays.

Everyone believes they simply cannot carry anything bigger than a Sig 365 and they will be slaughtered at wal-mart if they don't have 20 rounds in the mag.

This thinking is where the 30 Super Carry came from. It came from trends in the consumer market itself!

 

[cnj]

Was in Sportsman's Warehouse this past week and saw they had the 30SC version of the S&W EZ pistol on "clearance". Not sure what that means, if anything...

 

[Mike-AK]

...despite the fact that .38 Special is substantially less powerful than 9mm.

The Underwood 38+P I carry in my J-frame snubby advertise a 125 grain XTP at 1,250 which is about 100 fps faster than a 124 grain 9mm round.

 

[orangehole]

The Underwood 38+P I carry in my J-frame snubby advertise a 125 grain XTP at 1,250 which is about 100 fps faster than a 124 grain 9mm round.

I wouldn't believe those numbers. That is 357mag numbers. Underwood probably tested with a 6" barrel to get that. Anything full weight over 1000fps in a snub is super hot

 

[djohns6]

When the ammo gets as cheap , and as plentiful as 9mm . I'll think about it . Until then NOT INTERESTED .

 

[Autonomous]

Compared to the ubiquitous 9mm, .30 SC looks like a good round with the advantage of being able to fit more rounds in a magazine of a set volume. Especially helpful in free states that allow more than 10 rounds in a magazine.

Will the advantage of having the stopping power of a 9mm with higher magazine capacity be enough to overcome 9mm's 120-year head start?

 

[Mike-AK]

I wouldn't believe those numbers. That is 357mag numbers. Underwood probably tested with a 6" barrel to get that. Anything full weight over 1000fps in a snub is super hot

In the spirit of apples to apples, what does a 9mm do in a 1.75" barrel?

 

[Daryl Licht]

In the spirit of apples to apples, what does a 9mm do in a 1.75" barrel?

Interesting question. There really isn't much difference in the length of the barrel when you consider that auto pistol barrel lengths include the chamber. Looking at it this way, if I measure my Ruger LCR .38 from the back of the cylinder to the muzzle it's 3.25" +/-, pretty close to the 3.1" Shield. The revolver is likely to lose here due to the barrel/cylinder gap, and the fact that the hop between the bullet and the start of the rifling is somewhat farther than it is in an auto. But in the end the comparison looks closer than it appears just looking at "barrel length".

 

[gnappi]

It's likely to be the next "Bambi Secret Agent" weapon of choice.

 

[rosewood]

I wouldn't believe those numbers. That is 357mag numbers. Underwood probably tested with a 6" barrel to get that. Anything full weight over 1000fps in a snub is super hot

I chronyed and that load was about 1150 in 4" model 15. Got some voodoo going on there.

 

[Countrycuz]

After the first year, S&W pretty much silent on the 30 Super carry. Not much promotion and no further models. At least Hi point tried a carbine. Just like the . 327 mag, which S&W gave up on too fast.

 

[Dave Lively]

I chronyed and that load was about 1150 in 4" model 15. Got some voodoo going on there.

Voodoo is a form of magic. There is no such thing as magic.

Higher velocity is the result of higher pressure. If you see a 38 load hotter than others that means it is loaded to higher pressure levels.

Choosing the right powder to maintain pressure as long as possible helps but all ammo makers do that, as any reloader will tell you it isn't hard to do.

If you are unwilling to believe a company's performance claims without independent verification you shouldn't take their word about pressure levels either. Most people that buy ammo from Underwood or Buffalo Bore do so because it is the hottest ammo available. They have a strong financial motive to err on the side of more pressure.

 

[rosewood]

Voodoo is a form of magic. There is no such thing as magic.
.

It is a figure of speech genius.

 

[Mike-AK]

Most people that buy ammo from Underwood or Buffalo Bore do so because it is the hottest ammo available. They have a strong financial motive to err on the side of more pressure.

I buy the Underwood 38+P because I don't enjoy shooting .357 loads out of my Scandium snubby. Not worried about 38+P pressures. Shorter cases make ejection easier also with the short rod on a snubby.

 

[Dave Lively]

I buy the Underwood 38+P because I don't enjoy shooting .357 loads out of my Scandium snubby. Not worried about 38+P pressures. Shorter cases make ejection easier also with the short rod on a snubby.

I do the same thing with my magnum revolvers. With factory ammo there is a big gap between +P and magnum. The hot +P loads from UW and BB fill the gap nicely.

Until a fire destroyed their building Georgia Arms was my go to source for in between power level ammo. In particular they made a 240 Grain FMJ in a 44 Magnum rated case rated at 1000 fps I thought was near perfect for my M69. Strong enough to be interesting but not so punishing I wanted to quit after a cylinder or two. A lot of their magnum ammo with hard cast or JHP bullets was also somewhere between +P and true magnum in terms of power. If they ever recover from the fire and start making ammo again they are worth a look. Same power levels but less expensive than UW and much less expensive than BB.

 

[Mike-AK]

I chronyed and that load was about 1150 in 4" model 15. Got some voodoo going on there.

Careful with +P in a Model 15. You don't want to potentially damage a fine old revolver. Some might reply that S&W made K-frame .357's, but those used different steel in the cylinders and you will recall they had forcing cone cracking issues.

 

[Cal44]

I'm glad to see the industry is still innovating.

I'm a fan of 32 caliber, and 30sc is a big step up in non rimmed ammo in .312 for semiauto pistols.

I consider 32 a better handgun caliber than 38.

But 38 has a huge head start in the market.

Can't buy a new 30sc gun here in CA yet, but I will when it becomes possible.

 

[rosewood]

Careful with +P in a Model 15. You don't want to potentially damage a fine old revolver. Some might reply that S&W made K-frame .357's, but those used different steel in the cylinders and you will recall they had forcing cone cracking issues.

Thanks for the tip, but I am aware of the issue.

Rosewood

 

[Shibadog]

Was in a gun store yesterday and saw that a 50 round box of Remington range/FMJ .30SC ammo was $39.99. Nearby was the same Remington range ammo, in 9mm, for $12.50. The .30SC is not long for this earth.

This I think is ultimately the issue. Nothing especially "wrong" with the 30 SC (just as there was nothing wrong with previous .30 auto cartridges, like the old Luger, Tokarev,French "long" and possibly others.). Those old time rounds are ballistically very similar to the best new thing. I personally like small bores and had high hopes for both the .32 H&R Mag and the .327. How ever neither of those made it to mainstream and I suspect the SC will go the same way. As long as ammo is 3x the price of 9mm while offering no real advantage the round is DOA. Same with the 5.7 (though it does have a bigger following than the.30.)

Why small bores like the 5.7 ever make it at all is beyond me. Buddy has a 5.7 Ruger. It's a fun gun to shoot, but ammo is $$$. I can have as much fun plinking with ammo that's a lot less pricey. Heck I can load .44's for WAY less $$$. I enjoy new things, but to be a commercial success requires volume, and without volume prices will always be high. I love the 7.5 FK, but I'll never own one for the exact same reason.

 

[Hub]

What can the .32 caliber do that a 38 caliber can't?


357 magnum 125 jhp is widely accepted as the best handgun manstopper made.


And with the right ammo you can also hunt deer and hogs with it.


Ther isn't anything you can do with a .32 handgun that you can`t do with a .38 handgun better.

 

[first-model]

What can the .32 caliber do that a 38 caliber can't?

Fit more rounds in a given volume of space.