Information on "Shames"

[AudieMurphy]

Need more info on "shame" guns....Seems there quite a few that pop up every so often. Is this a catagory? condition? or just an opinion? for example OP shows their latest find and others chime in with the usual posts. You know the drill...."shoot it!" "give us a range report,later" BUT then there's that one poster...."Its been reblued, whats a SHAME". why is it a Shame? seems a frequent dig on someones property....

 

[THE PILGRIM]

That's usually because the poster thinks that gun with original finish is more desirable as a collectible than it is reblued.
And quite often the reblue is often less than well done.
Did you ever see a 100 year old gun with a new looking shiny finish and badly worn grips?
Wow! A sock drawer gun , barely shot or carried, but the grips wore out!
Here's a reblue where previous people apparently decided the original grips looked so shabby it would be appropriate to just thrown on some new ones.
And that 4 inch Pre 29? Pretty rare gun. I don't think I've ever seen one!
Need Cokes? No problemo! Plenty of those around.
Throw down some Benjamin's!

 

[Doug M.]

The people who say that are collectors, not what I would consider serious users. A firearm is first and foremost a tool. It might be a tool for defense (the use I value most of the time) or hunting; maybe some kind of competition. I bought a used K38 from a member some years back; while it could be used for defense or hunting, it really exists in my world to make me look like a decent shot.

 

[LVSteve]

It's a big deal in milsurp collector circles. Steaming out the dings in a stock and slapping on the Tru-Oil are seen as destroying the history. Then there are those who believe polyurethane or yacht varnish are the ideal fix to make a gun look "nice". Reblueing is a major blasphemy.

 

[Bullet Bob]

I must not get out enough, I've never seen that term used on a firearm forum. Of course there is some evidence that I'm a little "slow".

 

[30-30remchester]

People are odd about things. I have seen people abandon a firearm because it has a scratch and others do a complete refinish should a small imperfection is detected (visit my brother as an example). Other like the Japanese culture where damage is highlighted. If a jade object has cracks, they highlight the cracks with gold inlay. I like these types of people. A friend was a mountain lion guide and carried a 6" model 19 for so many years during his career that it was virtually bluing free and the grips worn smooth. He said it was never out of arm's length. All evidence of a fabulous adventurous lifetime. His brother sneaked it out of the house and had it re-blued and threw away the grips and put brand new ones on, then returned the gun as a Christmas present. Completely destroyed its storied life. My friend has never shot the gun again and last time I asked, he didn't even know where it was.

 

[LVSteve]

People are odd about things. I have seen people abandon a firearm because it has a scratch and others do a complete refinish should a small imperfection is detected (visit my brother as an example). Other like the Japanese culture where damage is highlighted. If a jade object has cracks, the highlight the cracks with gold inlay. I like these types of people. A friend was a mountain lion guide and carried a 6" model 19 for so many years during his career that it was virtually bluing free and the grips worn smooth. He said it was never out of arm's length. All evidence of a fabulous adventurous lifetime. His brother sneaked it out of the house and had it re-blued and threw away the grips and put brand new ones on, then returned the gun as a Christmas present. Completely destroyed its storied life. My friend has never shot the gun again and last time I asked, he didn't even know where it was.

That's right up there with cleaning the gunk out of the bosun's coffee cup.

 

[lkabug]

I still have the model 10-5 service revolver I was issued in 1969. It's worn , most of the blueing is non existent. The stocks are worn with little detail remaining and my DNA is enbeded in every crevice. It has been down many a dark alley and never once told anyone how tightly I was puckered. Some would consider it to be down right ugly. The history of that gun is priceless to me. To reblue would be erasing all that history.
I do have several reblued guns, there's no sin in doing so. But that 10-5 will never be one of them. That 10-5 is simply beautiful.

 

[30-30remchester]

I have a friend that showed me his Winchester 94 that he often carried around the mountains of Colorado. Many of us do tote this type of rifle in our outings in the mountains. His was the typical 1950's carbine with normal wear. The unusual part was the buttstock. It looked like it went through a woodchipper. When asked why he didn't replace it or at least sand it smooth again he told a story that had I not seen his hat or carbine, I would have a hard time believing. While hunting mountain lions, his dogs' tree a lion. Setting the carbine down to leash the dogs, the cat jumped from the tree and right on top of him. The cat took one swipe at his head and shredded his hat when he ducked. The only thing he could reach to keep the cat at bay was the carbine leaning against the tree. Grabbing the wrong end, his only choice was to shove the buttstock as far as he could down the cats mouth. After a struggle, the cat retreated leaving him with a great story and not a scratch. His daughter wanted the hat and is hanging in her living room.

 

[Muley Gil]

Well, I reckon I'm guilty as I made a "shame post". I would rather have a well-worn original finish revolver than a poorly refinished one.

Thread 'Would an appreciate a little info on 4” pre model 29'

Thursday at 8:37 AM

I picked this revolver up a couple of weeks ago, love it. 5-screw, 55-56?? I know the grips are not correct, but they are cool. I assume it should have a set of cokes. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

• Shootsomething
• Replies: 39
• Forum: S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961

• 

 

[THE PILGRIM]

A while back, seems like everything is a while back,
Ran into an Old Buddy at a Gun Show.
We just cruising around , chatting and looking at the guns.
Then we see this Nagant Carbine.
John picks it up. He's way more familiar with them that I am.
He looks confused, I look closer then I'm confused .
Dated early 1940s, and it looks brand new!
1940s, the Russians were under the gun, sending folks into combat with shovels, and here's a gun that looks brand new!
So was it really one that got overlooked? Or is there some type of replica?
And if it got overlooked and unissued there, how did it get here?

 

[Sebago Son]

".... A firearm is first and foremost a tool. It might be a tool for defense (the use I value most of the time) or hunting; maybe some kind of competition.... "

You forgot a "tool" for INVESTMENT.....

 

[Sebago Son]

Anyone who has a doubt about the validity of the concern about refinished guns needs to educate them selves by trying to peddle one....

 

[glenwolde]

You forgot a "tool" for INVESTMENT.....

Yeah, that's a myth collectors tell themselves. No investment professional would agree. They don't really make any sense as an investment. I've tried but the ROI just isn't there. There's always a better investment choice. Sure there's a tiny segment of significant, rare, and/or antique weapons that might be considered so. The problem is identifying what will be valuable in the future and buying it today before it becomes so.

I understand why someone would not want to refinish a gun that represented their history. But a gun that represents someone else's history? Who cares? You don't even know the history. It might have a horrible, tragic history.

 

[BloodyThumb]

My best looking 226. An old friend for 40+ years. This is just a handy example. I have many old Smiths that are similar in condition cosmetically.

It's all opinion, including this one... We need to stop looking for something to be pizzed off about.

Post back, tell me it's a shame. I don't care. It's an opinion.

Believe me, if you want to feel disparaged about something it won't be hard. I just hate to see that mentality here.

 

[javbike]

People are odd about things. I have seen people abandon a firearm because it has a scratch and others do a complete refinish should a small imperfection is detected (visit my brother as an example). Other like the Japanese culture where damage is highlighted. If a jade object has cracks, they highlight the cracks with gold inlay. I like these types of people. A friend was a mountain lion guide and carried a 6" model 19 for so many years during his career that it was virtually bluing free and the grips worn smooth. He said it was never out of arm's length. All evidence of a fabulous adventurous lifetime. His brother sneaked it out of the house and had it re-blued and threw away the grips and put brand new ones on, then returned the gun as a Christmas present. Completely destroyed its storied life. My friend has never shot the gun again and last time I asked, he didn't even know where it was.

That's funny you mention that about the jade my mother gave a jade bracelet to my wife it had a 24 carrot hold wrap around it about 2 inches wide mom said because she cracked there and had it mended in gold . She still has it

 

[Sebago Son]

Yeah, that's a myth collectors tell themselves. No investment professional would agree. They don't really make any sense as an investment. I've tried but the ROI just isn't there.

Maybe you just aren't looking closely enough or in the right places. Try again.

I understand why someone would not want to refinish a gun that represented their history. But a gun that represents someone else's history? Who cares?

Right now, anyone who is reading this knows you are not a collector or able to speak for us....

 

[glenwolde]

Maybe you just aren't looking closely enough or in the right places. Try again.



Right now, anyone who is reading this knows you are not a collector or able to speak for us....

No, I'm not a collector and I don't speak for them. Didn't say I was. I'm replying to the OP.

Like I said, I have looked. They aren't there.

 

[flyer338]

I have a pre-Model 29 with a 4" bbl. that was facory refinished. It is beautiful and has the original coke bottle grips. I bought it that way.
I have another pre-Model 29 with a 6.5" bbl. The finish is yellowed in places but strong in others with the original coke bottle grips. I have kept it the way it came to me.
Both revolvers are excellent mechanically as are the bores.
I shoot what I collect and I am very happy with this pair.

 

[Frailer]

Need more info on "shame" guns....Seems there quite a few that pop up every so often. Is this a catagory? condition? or just an opinion? for example OP shows their latest find and others chime in with the usual posts. You know the drill...."shoot it!" "give us a range report,later" BUT then there's that one poster...."Its been reblued, whats a SHAME". why is it a Shame? seems a frequent dig on someones property....

I can't claim to understand why people feel it is appropriate to "talk down" other people's guns. If a poster actively solicits opinions, fine. Otherwise, I'm in the "if you can't say anything nice, keep your mouth shut" school.

I think some people might justify such actions by claiming they are "educating" the poster. Perhaps that is indeed true in some cases, but I suspect it is often the result of the very human urge to feel superior. It seems to be an unpleasant aspect of most collecting communities.

 

[AudieMurphy]

I can't claim to understand why people feel it is appropriate to "talk down" other people's guns. If a poster actively solicits opinions, fine. Otherwise, I'm in the "if you can't say anything nice, keep your mouth shut" school.

I think some people might justify such actions by claiming they are "educating" the poster. Perhaps that is indeed true in some cases, but I suspect it is often the result of the very human urge to feel superior. It seems to be an unpleasant aspect of most collecting communities.

some may feel superior they have the King Midas syndrome My stuff is gold and yours its junk,until its mine.... a Buyer does it to try and devalue the selling price...I cut them off immediately Hey! thats already factored into the price....I dont want to hear it,Talk or walk...either way its have a nice day

 

[45Smashemflat]

I can appreciate a truly unmolested example with all the accoutrements and box, etc. That said, I admire a gun that shows both use, and care, more.

 

[ammodave]

I don't have a problem with refinished guns as long as they're not represented as "mint".

 

[Krogen]

I can't claim to understand why people feel it is appropriate to "talk down" other people's guns. If a poster actively solicits opinions, fine. Otherwise, I'm in the "if you can't say anything nice, keep your mouth shut" school.

I think some people might justify such actions by claiming they are "educating" the poster. Perhaps that is indeed true in some cases, but I suspect it is often the result of the very human urge to feel superior. It seems to be an unpleasant aspect of most collecting communities.

I agree 100%. I have the same opinion of folks on this forum who love to disparage others' place of residence. "Move to a free state." "In the state of _____, we don't have THAT problem." Or, other unasked-for advice. I admit, I'm dismayed at what my state has become, but people don't need to remind me or tell me what to do. There are myriad reasons why we live in our chosen places, just like the reasons some of us like our refinished (or un-refinished) guns.

 

[DWalt]

Yeah, that's a myth collectors tell themselves. No investment professional would agree. They don't really make any sense as an investment. I've tried but the ROI just isn't there. There's always a better investment choice. Sure there's a tiny segment of significant, rare, and/or antique weapons that might be considered so. The problem is identifying what will be valuable in the future and buying it today before it becomes so.

Indeed it is a myth and a big one. Here is a fact about guns being a good financial investment. Consider this: If you had invested $1 in the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) on January 1,1975, ignoring taxes, reinvesting all dividends, and unadjusted for inflation, it would have grown to approximately $97 today, i.e., in today's inflated dollars. Let's just say for simplicity a growth of 100X over 50 years in the stock market, or about a 9.5% annualized rate of return over that time period. What gun that you could have bought for $100 in 1975 would be worth buying for $10,000 today? I would say $500-1000 would be much more realistic than $10,000. And what guns would appreciate in value by 9.5% every year for 50 years? I'd like to buy one. So which is the better investment, guns or the stock market? There were mutual funds based on tracking the DJIA available in 1975 that still exist today, so my rate of return calculation presented above is accurate and fully supportable. In summary, as financial investments, guns suck.

 

[Rock185]

I wonder if, as forum members age, they start to think more as collectors than shooters? Thus, if someone posts a picture of some possibly collectable gun, collector mentality of course has to examine the gun for the tinniest flaw, the tiniest discrepancy. If the slightest negative is found, "Shame that" must be posted. This, along with how much $$$ the firearm is devalued due to the "Shame that".

I've sure seen more and more posted in recent years, not about the gun's performance, etc. but about what someone paid for this or that gun, how much its worth, etc., etc.......

 

[45Smashemflat]

Along those lines, I'm watching a listing for an interesting 17-2 with some neat provenance (important presentation piece, with a Jinx letter to back it up). But, the gun is certainly not mint, and has no accessories, and I have no real interest in the person it was presented to. (It's not like it was Elvis, or John Wayne. . )

As such, trying to decide if the price is reasonable, for what it is, is kinda tough. To me, it's a real nice user 17-2.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Need more info on "shame" guns....Seems there quite a few that pop up every so often. Is this a catagory? condition? or just an opinion? for example OP shows their latest find and others chime in with the usual posts. You know the drill...."shoot it!" "give us a range report,later" BUT then there's that one poster...."Its been reblued, whats a SHAME". why is it a Shame? seems a frequent dig on someones property....

GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whats next?

 

[Doug M.]

FWIW, I have never looked at the magnas on my K38 to see if they have #s, and for all I know they are not period correct. It not only was not a consideration for purchase, but such is at best inane and irrelevant.

 

[DWalt]

Along those lines, I'm watching a listing for an interesting 17-2 with some neat provenance (important presentation piece, with a Jinx letter to back it up). But, the gun is certainly not mint, and has no accessories, and I have no real interest in the person it was presented to. (It's not like it was Elvis, or John Wayne. . )

As such, trying to decide if the price is reasonable, for what it is, is kinda tough. To me, it's a real nice user 17-2.

Depends on the buyer and the presentee. I would attribute much more value if it had been presented to someone of the caliber of Elvis or John Wayne, and documented as such, vs. to some minor has-been personality of little interest or notoriety. If the latter, I would attach no additional value to it at all. Would I go Gaga over a gun presented to PeeWee Herman? Not likely, even with a boxcar load of documentation.