.32 WCF Revolver

[kvanderploeg]

I'm a little lost on this one. My BIL has this revolver and it sure looks like a S&W .32-20 M&P, but the marking are nothing I've seen before. Then again, my knowledge is limited. Any thoughts on what he has here? There was also a stamping behind the trigger guard that looked like it said "Japan", but it was very worn. Some kind of Japanese knock-off? Sorry for the poor pictures. I only had my phone with me.

Kent

 

[Green Frog]

That aint no S&W! I'm not familiar with that logo, but I think I can say without fear of contradiction that it was never used by S&W. I'm going to further guess (and this is just a WAG) that the mark you are trying to read may be a dimly stamped "SPAIN" rather than "JAPAN." There were a plethora of Spanish, Belgian and other copies of the S&W Military & Police model made prior to WW I. The quality and strength of them varied from about OK to abominable. You'll have to evaluate that one, and in so doing look for evidence of soft parts. Good for a wall hanger or small boat anchor probably... JMHO, YMMV!

Froggie

 

[kvanderploeg]

Thanks for the quick reply. Spain may be it, but I'd have to look at it again. I definitely think it's a knock-off from what I've seen so far.

 

[DWalt]

Highly likely to be Spanish. Tons of those in .32-20 were sold in the US earlier in the 20th Century, mainly in the years between the wars. There were numerous makers.

 

[Green Frog]

kvanderploeg, I went back and studied your pix once again, and am even more convinced it's not a Smith. If you will look at a few details, you will see why you can be sure it's a knock-off.
1) the trigger guard appears to be pinned in rather than forged as part of the receiver.
2) there is a screw rather than a pin under the edge of the thumb release.
3) there are two extra pins under the cylinder window and apparently one on the yoke(?)
4) most telling of all, there is no side plate on the right side!

I'm going to guess that if you take the gun apart, inside it will be very different from a pre-War S&W. JMHO still.

Froggie

 

[DWalt]

There are actually collectors of these Spanish revolvers. I have previously heard that there may have been a couple of dozen makers at different times, and I imagine it would be a very challenging task to accumulate representative examples of all of them. The standard advice is that the Spanish revolvers should not be fired, as some of them (but certainly not all) demonstrate inferior workmanship and/or materials, and may be unsafe. If anyone wants to find out more, there is a book on the topic. See: Spanish Handguns: The History of Spanish Pistols & Revolvers: Gene, Jr. Gangarosa: 0037084061474: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518GHCSYA5L.@@AMEPARAM@@518GHCSYA5L

Not certain by any means, but the marking may indicate Ojanguren y Vidosa as the maker. Most were made in the Basque region of Spain, as that seemed to be the center of Spanish handgun manufacture.

Some Spanish handguns of high quality were sold in the US up until the late 1990s. I have owned several high quality revolvers and pistols made by Llama (Gabilondo), and can't say anything bad about them. Star and Astra were other makers of good repute in more recent years.

 

[dogngun]

Spanish revolver, chambered for .32-20.. Made by Orvia y Cia. in the Basque country of Spain. The company began in the late 19th century and was closed in the early 1920's because of lack of business after WWI. THis was probably called the Model 1905. Internally, there will be some similarity with a Smith, but also some Colt looking parts and some own design. I know people who have similar revolvers in .38 Colt, and a few in .38 Spl. If it is in good mechanical condition, you might shoot it sparingly using lead bullet cowboy action loads - NOT Remington or other Express loads. There was special .32-20 ammo made for rifles ONLY but that is long gone from commercial sales.

They were not the best quality, but not the worst, either, and several old Spanish/Basque handguns that I own are well designed and good reliable shooters...they are NOT copies-these companies used features of existing guns and often combined their own innovations, some of them very well thought out.

I understand that a lot of these revolvers were imported to the US in them1960's...sold cheap via mail order.

There are some people who collect these nearly hand made guns...I do, for one.

mark

 

[kvanderploeg]

Well, I knew I was asking the right crowd. Thank you all for your input and help. I'll pass along this info to my BIL. Any idea as to approximate value of this firearm? I believe he received it from a woman whose husband had passed. If he sold it, he would likely just give her the money from it's sale. Thanks again!

Kent

 

[Abwehr]

kvanderploeg,

Here is a link to the same revolver you are discussing that is for sale. I think the price asked is $250-275. The link is: SPANISH HAND EJECTOR DOUBLE ACTION REVOLVER 32-20 : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com

I hope this helps a little. Honestly, I even thought about buying it myself just to have a Spanish copy!

 

[mikepriwer]

That link above, of the gun for sale, is indeed the same gun. The grips are the
1920-1930 style S&W grips, whereas the BIL gun has gold medallions grips on it.
Makes me wonder about how much originality there was in these guns !

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[Modified]

I must say, looking at this gun, I would be intensely curious to take it apart if I owned it.

I love how so much of it is "right" as a S&W copy, yet the little things are off. Like the side plate in this case.

I would imagine that doing a comparison of all the different makers would be a fascinating thing, if you could rescue enough of these old spanish revolvers from the destruction they have been facing for so many years.

 

[DWalt]

"I understand that a lot of these revolvers were imported to the US in the 1960's...sold cheap via mail order."

Maybe my memory of the 1960s is fading fast, but I don't remember seeing the old Spanish revolvers being advertised for sale then, or their showing up in any quantity at the many gun shows I attended during that decade. I do remember seeing a few here and there, and they were fairly cheap. I've run across a few at gun shows last year. I remember one I saw in October in .32-20, and I think the seller wanted $250. I'm content to leave them to those who collect Spanish revolvers.

I've heard a tale from several sources that the reason so many of the Spanish revolvers are found chambered in .32-20 is that during WWI, the Spanish made some significant quantity of military revolvers for the French which were chambered in 8mm Lebel. As this cartridge was very similar to the .32-20, the Spanish makers just used the 8mm Lebel tooling they already had for civilian revolver manufacture. True or not, I do not know. Maybe someone else does.

 

[tlay]

A lot of us old dogs don't remember much from the sixties! I wonder why!

 

[JP@AK]

A lot of us old dogs don't remember much from the sixties! I wonder why!

Actually, I remember too much from those years. Some of it I would sooner forget . . .

On the other hand, the early part of that decade was wonderful. Among other things, that is when I started shooting S&W revolvers.