I shot the underwood 158+p keith swc coated hard cast in a 340 m&p and a 442 with steel cylinder. The fired brass is slightly sticky to extract in a steel cylinder, but nowhere close to the difficulty in extracting in a titanium cylinder. I will use them in steel cylinders, but probably avoid titanium due to how tight the brass gets upon firing.
340PD for bear protection
- Thread starter Bakch0w
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Black bear, brown bear, white bear = .44 Magnum, end of story.
Cal44
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A 340pd would be fine for Koala bear defense.
elpac3
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When I am in bear country, I always try to travel with a buddy in case of emergencies. For a side arm, I would recommend a model 18, and a pair of good running shoes. You don't have to outrun the bear, just your buddy. (if your buddy is faster than you, that is what the model 18 is for, a knee shot will slow him down)
Something solid...
No hollow points. To me, best is a hard cast SWC with a stout load behind it. You have a light gun. See if you can tolerated emptying the chambers fast and accurately in case you have to. I can take all kinds of recoil IF NECESSARY, but I sure don't like practicing with such a combination.
Bears have heavy fur, a lot of fat, thick skulls and heavy bones. I wouldn't trust a .38 Special.
No hollow points. To me, best is a hard cast SWC with a stout load behind it. You have a light gun. See if you can tolerated emptying the chambers fast and accurately in case you have to. I can take all kinds of recoil IF NECESSARY, but I sure don't like practicing with such a combination.
Bears have heavy fur, a lot of fat, thick skulls and heavy bones. I wouldn't trust a .38 Special.
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smithra_66
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I'd get a woods gun.
Buffalo Bore .357s.
HEAVY 357 MAG OUTDOORSMAN
➤ 3-inch S&W J Frame
a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
MIGHT jump the crimp out of a Airweight .357... so I suggest you test it well (if your hand can take the pounding.)
Or HSM Bear loads.
Bear Load | HSM Ammunition
There is an old joke I am reminded of..........
For hiking in bear country, you should have bear spray and wear little bells on your shoes and know how to identify bear scat.
How do you identify bear scat?
It has little bells in it and smells like bear spray.
For hiking in bear country, you should have bear spray and wear little bells on your shoes and know how to identify bear scat.
How do you identify bear scat?
It has little bells in it and smells like bear spray.
Biggfoot44
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In this instance , the limiting factor will be the OP's ( of similarly situated persons) limiting factor will be accuracy and control with the 340 , not the chrono reading .
Biggfoot44
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I don't have a 340 . But I have practiced and qualed with 158 +P in 13oz M37 .
And it's definitely the upper limit for me to be somewhat resembling acceptable control for reasonably ( non slow) follow up shots . And my hand only hurt for a Dat afterwards ( and I enjoy .454 and .50AE one handed) .
So yeah . IF a 340 was the only handgun you owned , a hard cast 158 SWC .38+P such that you can make hits with , would be * Least Worst * option.
Biggfoot44
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oddshooter
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My understanding of bear spray is that it is not a bear stopper; it is a bear irritant. If it is a stream type, you need to hit the bear in the eyes or the nose/mouth. That is several hundred times harder than a bullet. That's why the sellers introduced bear spray as a fog. The real problem is that an angry bear can easily reach you after being irritated by the fog.
Imagine an angry bear running at you through the fog created by your bear spray. The bear may not even take a breath in while running. They may not even notice the irritant during a charge. That doesn't seem to be advisable as a plan.
We lived in the backcountry of Montana and there were lots of bears. The record was six different bears in one day. Most I believe see humans as another predator. Most predators will not take on other predators for fear of being injured. Injured in the backcountry is a death sentence. Unless there is a dire situation, I don't see bears attacking.
I carry bear spray, but I don't believe in it. When I camp I try to get off ,and away from, game trails. I have occasionally used bear spray on the ground leading to my camp near the break off from the game trail. I'm hoping to keep the bear on the game trail when they sniff my nasty ground spray leading to my camp. I have no idea if it works, but I have seen new large paw prints in the morning on the game trail and nothing leading to my camp.
Now on what caliber and gun to carry?
The one you can carry and shoot.
I am too light in the butt to pack anything on my waist. After spending a day hiking up my falling down pants, I get tired of it. I'm also 74 and not as spry as I used to be. I can no longer carry even medium weight on my shoulders or I suffer for days.
So my situation dictates my caliber and gun. I carry the SW model 360PD in the backcountry when walking and solo camping. I think it's around 13 oz with titanium cylinder. I handload it with 180gr bullet hitting around 1375fps.
It is more than a handful and is entirely painful. I don't care !!!
It is the worst range toy ever invented. So don't do that. Practice with the heaviest you can shoot without flinching. Under stress, repetitive practice takes over for trigger control, and the recoil is not felt. I don't give a damn if I blow that little beast up. It's made for one purpose and a single incident.
I've had to fire in life and death situations, and I know for certain I never felt the recoil; my attention was elsewhere. Five minutes later I looked down at my black and blue hand and said "Ooowww".
We all know about calibers starting with a 4 or a 5. I have several and love to shoot. There are better bear guns than a 357mag. So what? Owning one doesn't count, having it with you and knowing how to use it under adrenaline is what COUNTS.
Do I think I'm under-gunned for bear? Yes.
Is there something I can do about it? Nope.
Imagine an angry bear running at you through the fog created by your bear spray. The bear may not even take a breath in while running. They may not even notice the irritant during a charge. That doesn't seem to be advisable as a plan.
We lived in the backcountry of Montana and there were lots of bears. The record was six different bears in one day. Most I believe see humans as another predator. Most predators will not take on other predators for fear of being injured. Injured in the backcountry is a death sentence. Unless there is a dire situation, I don't see bears attacking.
I carry bear spray, but I don't believe in it. When I camp I try to get off ,and away from, game trails. I have occasionally used bear spray on the ground leading to my camp near the break off from the game trail. I'm hoping to keep the bear on the game trail when they sniff my nasty ground spray leading to my camp. I have no idea if it works, but I have seen new large paw prints in the morning on the game trail and nothing leading to my camp.
Now on what caliber and gun to carry?
The one you can carry and shoot.
I am too light in the butt to pack anything on my waist. After spending a day hiking up my falling down pants, I get tired of it. I'm also 74 and not as spry as I used to be. I can no longer carry even medium weight on my shoulders or I suffer for days.
So my situation dictates my caliber and gun. I carry the SW model 360PD in the backcountry when walking and solo camping. I think it's around 13 oz with titanium cylinder. I handload it with 180gr bullet hitting around 1375fps.
It is more than a handful and is entirely painful. I don't care !!!
It is the worst range toy ever invented. So don't do that. Practice with the heaviest you can shoot without flinching. Under stress, repetitive practice takes over for trigger control, and the recoil is not felt. I don't give a damn if I blow that little beast up. It's made for one purpose and a single incident.
I've had to fire in life and death situations, and I know for certain I never felt the recoil; my attention was elsewhere. Five minutes later I looked down at my black and blue hand and said "Ooowww".
We all know about calibers starting with a 4 or a 5. I have several and love to shoot. There are better bear guns than a 357mag. So what? Owning one doesn't count, having it with you and knowing how to use it under adrenaline is what COUNTS.
Do I think I'm under-gunned for bear? Yes.
Is there something I can do about it? Nope.
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Long thread with plethora of info on firearms, loads, running fast, spray, etc. for bears. If can't carry a known bear gun cause of wieght or whatever, then take your hike knowing confrontation may/may not happen. Reccomend to have your affairs in order for family peace of mind. Enjoy...
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My understanding is Bear Spray is not to be used on aggressive charging bears. Just like pepper spray labels say not to use it on armed aggressors...
Great for nuance bears around the campsite but if a big bear starts running at you from 20 yards it is not so great.
Guns and Bear spray both have a place. Carry the gun in a very fast accessible holster in case charged.. spray in case you bump into a bear in camp or trail that is just posturing. There are videos on such as YouTube that show what a bluff charge is and how to recognize it. Just go to YouTube and search 'bluff charge grizzly'...
Here in Texas when hiking I always carry SOMETHING for two and four legged critters. A Ruger Blackhawk in .357, or Glock 29 in 10mm, or such... Black Bears are rare here but HOGS are just like rabbits. If in Griz country I'd just take my Ruger Redhawk .45 Colt and Glock 29 (Glock is for in town, Hawk is for on the trail.)
Why no S&W? Mine are mostly nice older guns I just let sleep in the safe... I like to shoot them now and then but I'd rather just take a 'no big deal' Ruger or Glock when hiking.
HamHands
Member
Look at their 9mm "Outdoorsman" loads on Buffalo Bore's site and see what an Alaskan Tour/Hunting guide did to a 500lbs plus Brownie with his 3rd Gen Smith!
They certainly got the job done up close and personal. I have a box or two of them and they hit steel Hard. The only problem I have with them is once chambered you either shoot or go to the gun bench to unchamber a live round. At least on CZ model 9mm's due to their notoriously tight chambers.
But the concept of SWC's or Keith's from any Medium or Heavy Caliber Handgun hit hard and track deep. Plenty enough for a Blackie. But personally, a 3" barreled .44Special with 255gr Keith's, and/or my 4.5" CZ-97B loaded with 255grain Hard Cast Keith's in .45ACP+P's are my minimum carry for the "Woods..."
One is only going to get off 1 maybe 2 shots off on a charging/ambushing bear though at best so be comfortable with what you choose and solid hits are paramount.
HamHands
Member
Deleted, Deleted...
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I think you are talking about Phil Shoemaker in Alaska. He used to carry a S&W Mountain Gun in .44 magnum, as well as a .458 WM rifle, but has he got older he could not handle the loads. Hence the Smith & Wesson 3953 DAO 9mm. He was very lucky. I would still recommend a bigger gun IF you can handle it. Phil picked what he could shoot and prevailed.
You can read about it here.
Alaska Outfitter Defends Fishermen from Raging Grizzly with 9mm Pistol | An Official Journal Of The NRA
HamHands
Member
Correct, I was talking about Phil Shoemaker. He was very Blessed to be able to take that violent bear and get off the whole magazine I believe it was he pumped into that bear. I've read that account half a dozen times as it is an amazing story of how he and his clients suffered nothing but some briar scrapes and/or light bruises.
I too would be carrying a .44Magnum on my chest and a similar rifle to his .458 Winn Mag lever action.
The rifle/carbine I feel most comfortable in the woods with is my Ruger M44 "Deer Slayer" semi-auto (4+1) carbine chambered in .44Magnum.
A Reliable semi-auto compact/carbine is very desirable to me even if it's capacity is just 5 rounds and slow to reload... But those 5 rounds can be touched off very quickly on target up close and ugly distances with light recoil. The 18.5" barrel adds 400+fps to the already stout .44Magnum round when compared to a 5" Revolver using the same loads which is Huge.
When hunting in addition to the Ruger Carbine my back-up sidearm of choice is a 3" barreled .44Magnum (have a lot of trigger time behind this Revolver.)
The ability to share ammo in both the .M629 Revolver and the light and trusty Carbine work well together. Having both a Revolver and a Leaver Action and/or Long-Arm that shares the same ammo has been a long time historical favorite to do so of the frontier men taming the west so to speak.
If I were fishing on the banks of Alaska or similar activity I wouldn't hesitate to carry the Ruger Carbine as my primary and the 3" shorty M629 (on a chest rig or in a shoulder rig) for such adventures in the Alaskan Wild. Those 305grain "Keith" Loads rated at 1,350fps from Underwood and/or Buffalo Bore hit hard from a Revolver already... From the 18.5" Carbine the 305's hit so much harder than from a Revolver. At 100 yards the Hard Cast "Keith's" were "Still" cratering my hardened AR-500 Steel Plate Silhouette. 150 yards is the closest I'll shoot the Silhouette with this Carbine/Load as not to ruin the plate pictured below.
Range was 150 Yards with the Below pictured Ruger using Underwood's 305's. 5 shots taken, 4 lateral string (lower center to lower left grouping) & (1 flyer to top left shoulder) was shot as quick as I could get/stay on target in about 5 seconds. The relatively light-medium recoil makes for quick back on target work.
I'd love to see how fast n' accurate I could do 5 pops at 50 Yards but that Plate was expensive and I'm not going to ruin it, hahaha!
AR-500 Silhouette
Ruger M44 Carbine
M629 Mountain Back Packer carry combo with the Ruger Carbine
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crstrode
Member
Get your affairs in order.
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