357 Ammo for Lightweight Snubby

[Boscobarbell]

Yes I have - quite a few. Recoil is substantially more with the HST’s, but you are firing a full power 357 magnums out of a light-weight revolver. Both rounds were very impressive in my tests.

I've seen several tests of the Golden Sabers, and they seem to offer a near ideal combination of expansion and penetration. I'll have to check on some of the HST results.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

I just haven't seen over-penetration in good JHP ammos with 357.

When I first attended FLETC the subject of over-penetration was discussed. The instructor’s opinion was that since most shots fired by police missed their target…over-penetration in the target was a non-issue. He felt the emphasis had to be on hitting the target…not missing it.

 

[edl]

Marshall was discredited when some of the agencies he claimed to have pulled data from publicly stated that they had not. I believe one even said that Marshall made up a shooting that he claimed happened in their jurisdiction.

There are many departments have claimed that Marshall and Sanow grossly misrepresented the information they provided, or that shootings that Marshall and Sanow attributed to their department never took place.

Further, Marhsall and Sanow exclude all situations where one shot failed to stop a criminal and additional rounds needed to be fired.

Successes are meaningless unless you factor in failures. And Marshall & Sanow's numbers do not factor in situations when one shot was not enough, therefore they are meaningless.

 

[stansdds]

My experience with my Model 640-1 has been that full power 357 Magnum ammo produces significant flash, a whole lot of blast, and tends to bite the hand that is feeding it. I'm pretty sure that I don't want to use full power 357 Magnum ammo in a lightweight compact revolver. I find that 38 Special +P is much less ferocious to shoot and I am faster with follow up shots. NYPD had good results with the Speer 135 grain Gold Dot +P load and ballistic gel testing suggests the Remington 125 grain Golden Saber +P load would be effective.

 

[.455_Hunter]

As to the High Velocity it was 1974 and I can’t recall.

At least Federal and Remington made such loads.

I have a box of ~1977 production Remington .38 Special 158 gr LRN +P. In the same range session out of a 1942 6" Colt OP, it's average velocity was within 3 fps of ~2007 production Remington .38 Special 158 gr LSWCHP +P. They were both in the 990's fps level of performance.

So much for watering down...

 

[CH4]

Another vote for the Gold Dot 135 SB 357. Problem is finding it. I have several 50 rd boxes of the 38+p version and 44 spl stashed away. That said, Hornady Critical Defense or similar would be my second choice.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

Winchester silver tips have great expansion. I no longer carry 357 for a variety of reasons, but I tested just about every 357 defensive round I could get my hands on and the clear winner was the silvertips which outperformed everything, including Gold Dots in terms of expansion.

 

[Sakràn Dog]

OP, these are the projectiles recovered from my short barrel tests: 357 Magnum 154gr HST on the left, 357 Magnum 125gr Golden Saber on the right - both fired out a Ruger LCR with a 1.875” barrel. Fired through 4 layers of BDU trouser fabric into water jugs from 5 yards. The HST dented the back of the 5th jug, the GS dented the back of the 4th jug.



Best of luck on your decision.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

... getting a snubbie, preferably in 357.

So I figured I'd ask you guys if you know of any 357 ammo that is suitable for a lightweight snub ...

For a snubby are you thinking K Frame or J Frame size?

357 snubby is better served with 38 +P just my LEO perspective.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

I think any small frame revolver is better served with .38 Special rather than .357. Just because a gun can chamber the round doesn't mean its a good idea.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I used my issued .38 on the street three times and it always did the job. First, 158 grain lead round nose standard pressure, next 158 grain lead round nose high velocity & last 158 grain +P hollow point (FBI round). Maybe luck was on my side. In retirement my EDC is a no-lock 340PD loaded w/Remington 110 grain +P semi-jacketed hollow points.

Great information and thank you for sharing.

From my LEO experiences the 158 LRN got its job done too. When we went to the +P 125 JHP it did well too.

In retirement I am using Winchester 125 grain +P JHP.

 

[Boscobarbell]

Winchester silver tips have great expansion. I no longer carry 357 for a variety of reasons, but I tested just about every 357 defensive round I could get my hands on and the clear winner was the silvertips which outperformed everything, including Gold Dots in terms of expansion.

Did you shoot it out of an alloy snub? Recoil?

 

[jem102]

Well now. I just finished testing (seat of the pants) The Buffalo Bore 19E "Lower" Recoil/Low Flash ammo in a 3" Kimber K6s. It appears to be loaded with a Hornady 158 gr. XTP. I fired 48 rounds at 30' all double action and I did not attempt to stage the trigger, just straight pull through. I was able to keep all rounds navel to upper chest and well centered left and right on the standard ATF silhouette target. I fired double taps with about 2-3 seconds between sets and did not lower the revolver until it was time to reload.
I am not recoil shy but 8 cylinders full was enough without risking a sore hand.



I "perceived" the felt recoil to be less than the .357 Mag. WW 145 gr. Silvertips, posted MV of 1,290 (536 ft. lbs.) barrel length unknown, I have been shooting but not by much.


BB posts a MV of 1,172 (481 ft. lbs.) from a 3" S&W M-65 with the 19E load which is 23 ft. lbs. more than their .38 Spec.+P FBI LSWCHP-GC with a posted MV of 1,143 (458 ft. lbs.) from a 3" Ruger SP101 with the 20A load. The .38 load seems to shoot "softer" than what the numbers would lead you to believe...might be the cast bullet...


Positive: The Hornady XTP has a good reputation for penetration and this is the cleanest .38/.357 factory ammo I have ever fired, ever, and I have fired thousands of rounds On an overcast day on a covered firing line there was no distracting flash firing with both eyes open.


Negative: This is most likely the lowest MV which will give any expansion from a readily available JHP. You can change weight and velocity but its an endless spiral chasing "enough" to give the energy, expansion and penetration to get the job done. But in a light weight, short barreled gun it is still a bit too much...


We need the Rim Rock LSWHP loaded to 950-975 fps from a 2-3" barrel in both .38 Spec and .357 Mag.


Best and good luck to you all.

 

[bushmaster1313]

See my comments above. I've never seen one that performs consistently in gel tests out of short-barrel revolvers.

I, no doubt, could be missing one (or more), but all my searching has only yielded disappointment so far.

Here is a review of Hornady .38 Critical Defense.

https://www.targetbarn.com/broad-side/hornady-critical-defense-38-special-p-110gr-ftx-review/
Penetration was good but expansion was not. Still, I would feel well armed with this round.

 

[pasound]

In all my j-frames, for carry, the Winchester Silvertip 110gr 38spl has been my go-to for years.

 

[hardluk1]

My wife brough home a S&W 360 J 357mag late last year that weights 15 oz empty and I have an old taurus 85 ss 38sp . First change made was a apex J frame trigger kit and next was a hogue mono rubber grip so 3 fingers can be used on it to help with absorbing recoil with the s&w . Now its shoot able for me with old rem 158gr sjhp and its a good solid all around load But not for my wife. Shes prefers the federal 130gr hst micro .

I hope we never need to carry a short barrel revolver as to many 9mm, 40sw and 45 just out preform these 357mag or 38sp .

 

[BE Mike]

All handgun bullets in .38 SPL and .357 mag. can fail to stop. Shot placement is king. I've killed small Texas deer from 40-50 yards with a Super Vel 137 gr. jacketed soft point with a 4" S&W model 28, back in the day. In my opinion, penetration trumps expansion.

 

[The Rabbi]

In my Kimber K6 I carry the Winchester 145gr Silvertip .357mag. They seem to be on the ragged edge of comfort. But the LHP +P 38Spc (FBI Load) works well with a long history of success.
Frankly I don't think you gain much going from .38 to .357 in a short barrel. The downside is a lot of muzzle flash, recoil, noise.
As for over penetration, we used to say "no gun fight was lost due to over penetration."

 

[Boscobarbell]

In my Kimber K6 I carry the Winchester 145gr Silvertip .357mag. They seem to be on the ragged edge of comfort. But the LHP +P 38Spc (FBI Load) works well with a long history of success.
Frankly I don't think you gain much going from .38 to .357 in a short barrel. The downside is a lot of muzzle flash, recoil, noise.
As for over penetration, we used to say "no gun fight was lost due to over penetration."

At 24 oz, my Kimber is heavy enough that just about any 357 is manageable. My question was intended to find a suitable round for one of the aluminum alloy revolvers.

As for 357 v 38 in a short barrel…357 is a significantly better performer; check out the luckygunner labs and see how much more consistently 357 performs out of a 2” barrel. It’s really not even close…..

 

[The Rabbi]

At 24 oz, my Kimber is heavy enough that just about any 357 is manageable. My question was intended to find a suitable round for one of the aluminum alloy revolvers.

As for 357 v 38 in a short barrel…357 is a significantly better performer; check out the luckygunner labs and see how much more consistently 357 performs out of a 2” barrel. It’s really not even close…..

The standard is 12-19 inches of penetration. Just about all of them do that, with the .357s tending to over penetrate. Given the downsides of flash and recoil in the .357 I just don't see much advantage. But YMMV.