357 Mag in 38 SPC Revolvers.

[shocker]

I saw in another forum that Hornady 357 Critical Defense ammo will fit into the charge holes of some Smith 38 SPC revolvers.

This Isn't Supposed To Be, Critical Defense 357 | The Leading Glock Forum and Community - GlockTalk.com

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Something is not right there..............

 

[RMFnLA]

It's all about tolerances...

 

[hkcavalier]

Forks fit in 120v wall receptacles too.

Don't do it.

 

[Fishinfool]

Many of the Hornady cases using the FTX bullet are shorter than normal, as the FTX is a long bullet for its weight, and needs a shorter case to maintain proper OAL. At least this is so in their 45/70 FTX round.

These .357 cases are still longer than a .38spl case to prevent the situation you are noting. I would guess your chambers are bored slightly on the long side, combined with the shorter .357 cases, maybe some endshake, and they fit. I would not fire them in that gun....

Larry

 

[Dieseltech56]

My 64-5 38 special will almost chamber a 357 mag but not quite. It would be pretty easy to trim some magnum brass a few thousandths. I've thought about it but I haven't tried it.

 

[BB57]

It's possible the slightly shorter than normal for .357 Magnum cases are fitting in a fairly generous throat in a .38 Special revolver, but it could potentially be a perfect storm in terms of the kaboom potential.

While the .357 Mag round with the shorter FTX length case might fit in the .38 Special chamber, it may not have enough clearance with the case stuffed in the throat to cleanly release the bullet from the case. So you've got a higher pressure round, that will run even higher due to inadequate clearance.

I wish Hornady would stop with this short case nonsense in all their FTX offerings. Maybe a law suit from a .38 Special blowing up would help the cause.

 

[stansdds]

I sure as heck would not fire a 357 Magnum round in a firearm designed for and chambered in 38 Special. You might not destroy the firearm immediately, but the increased stress is likely to lead to rapid wear and potentially catastrophic failure.

 

[shocker]

Next question - could you drop a 44 mag Critical Defense in some 44 spls?

BTW, I don't think anybody advocates shooting a 357 in a 38 just because it fits. I find it interesting that 2 SAAMI manufacturers could circumvent an engineering safety control that shooters suppose is in effect.

A friend of mine told me that during a group sight in for deer season one of the party members (his dad) shot a 308 from a 270. Not only did it not blow up but the now .277 diameter bullet hit the target.

 

[hkcavalier]

A friend of mine told me that during a group sight in for deer season one of the party members (his dad) shot a 308 from a 270. Not only did it not blow up but the now .277 diameter bullet hit the target.

That's one overachieving firing pin.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I recall that during the 1970's there were quite a few .38 Special revolvers being rechambered to accept .357 magnum ammunition. Fairly simple job for a gunsmith with a .357 magnum chambering reamer. I have seen S&W N-frames (.38-44 Heavy Duty, etc), Colt SAA, older Colt Trooper .38 Specials, Colt Official Police, and others that seemed to have no problems with this. I have also seen S&W Model 10 (M&P .38 Special) revolvers with the chambers reamed out, and I found that just a little bit scary.

Now there are airweight alloy-framed J-frames factory chambered for .357 magnum, something unthinkable just a few years ago. J-frames such as the Model 36 were not even factory-approved for +P .38 Special ammo for many years.

The primary reason why the .357 case was made 0.135" longer than the .38 Special was to prevent its use in .38 Special revolvers. Even at that, there were (and are) plenty of .38 Special revolvers around (US and foreign) with chambers that will readily accept .357 ammo (usually chambers bored straight through).

I guess I have always accepted the theory that the manufacturers knew a lot more about what they were doing than I did.

Moot point for me anyway. I stopped using factory .357 magnum ammo decades ago. I still reload and shoot .357's in medium and large framed revolvers, but my loads are well below maximum pressures. I have taken a couple of mule deer with .357 revolver, and even with my ".357 Light" loads I have more than enough power. I also don't have to use a dowel rod and mallet to extract fired cases, or have my dental work fixed after a range session with .357 ammo!

 

[BB57]

A friend of mine told me that during a group sight in for deer season one of the party members (his dad) shot a 308 from a 270. Not only did it not blow up but the now .277 diameter bullet hit the target.

We had a lady come into the shop with a bolt stuck closed in her Model 70 Winchester. She indicated she had fired about a half dozen rounds and that the bolt had been hard to open with those rounds, but that this one was stuck solid.

It was chambered in .270 Win and after a great deal of work we got the bolt open without breaking anything. What we found was a badly deformed case with almost nothing readable on the head of the case, and the case was basically melted from mid shoulder forward.

However, the one thing I could make out on the case head appeared to be a NATO cross. There is no ".270 NATO" so it appeared to be pretty obvious what happened, which also explained the short remains of the case.

I asked her if she had any more ammunition for it, the other fired cases, and the box the ammunition came in. She had no more ammo and the cases and empty box were at the range (about 2 miles away). A quick trip to the range confirmed that she'd been shooting .308 Win in it.

Since she was an occasional hunter, she had gotten the .270 as part of her divorce settlement and her kind hearted ex husband had given her some ammo for her .270.

She certainly had some knowledge gaps, but still if it had been up to me, I'd have charged him with reckless endangerment. I was however very impressed with the strength of the Model 70 taking that abuse for a half dozen rounds.

 

[BB57]

.../

/...I stopped using factory .357 magnum ammo decades ago. I still reload and shoot .357's in medium and large framed revolvers, but my loads are well below maximum pressures. I have taken a couple of mule deer with .357 revolver, and even with my ".357 Light" loads I have more than enough power. I also don't have to use a dowel rod and mallet to extract fired cases, or have my dental work fixed after a range session with .357 ammo!

I still buy federal 158 gr JSP for my .357 Magnum rifles as it is accurate (1.5 to 2.0 MOA) and has great ballistics and I buy it when I can get it for around $22-$25 per box of 20. I can hand load Hornady XTPs for around $0.32 per round ($16.00 per box of 50) but that's not counting the brass, and new .357 mag brass is expensive, and at anything over $18 per 100, it's cheaper for me to just buy the federal ammo.

However, in my revolvers, I load my own and I normally limit my personal maximum pressure at the point just below where the cases start to stick in the chamber, especially in my self defense loads. That's usually not far below the SAAMI max in a K or L frame, but J Magnum frame revolvers start having issues with sticky ejection at lower pressures.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I tried several standard length .357 brass sized to .379" O/D and
tried to put them in my 38 specials.

None of the chambers would swallow the case.
About a 1/4" of the back, struck out.

Those revolvers that accept the short Hornady 357 round must be really shot out
or had some relief work done to them, if
they have a S&W factory cylinder.

Mine will NOT accept a JHP bullet pushed in from the front of the cylinder,
let alone the added diameter of the case, that is holding a bullet.

Time for a new cylinder, maybe?

 

[seldon14]

I tried several standard length .357 brass sized to .379" O/D and
tried to put them in my 38 specials.

None of the chambers would swallow the case.
About a 1/4" of the back, struck out.

Those revolvers that accept the short Hornady 357 round must be really shot out
or had some relief work done to them, if
they have a S&W factory cylinder.

Mine will NOT accept a JHP bullet pushed in from the front of the cylinder,
let alone the added diameter of the case, that is holding a bullet.

Time for a new cylinder, maybe?

I've dropped them in a factory new Taurus before if I recall correctly.

 

[nachogrande]

OR...

Stick to pushing bobby pins in 220 outlets.

 

[shocker]

I tried several standard length .357 brass sized to .379" O/D and
tried to put them in my 38 specials.

None of the chambers would swallow the case.
About a 1/4" of the back, struck out.

Those revolvers that accept the short Hornady 357 round must be really shot out
or had some relief work done to them, if
they have a S&W factory cylinder.

Mine will NOT accept a JHP bullet pushed in from the front of the cylinder,
let alone the added diameter of the case, that is holding a bullet.

Time for a new cylinder, maybe?

I copied over a photo from Glocktalk. Gun is a 637. Sticking out from the charge hole, like it should, is a 357 Golden Sabre. The round fitting nicely is the Critical Defense. Original poster found the "problem" with his 642.
Can assume this is typical of the late production J frames with the "long" cylinder.

 

[Nevada Ed]

"Can assume this is typical of the late production J frames with the "long" cylinder. " .......... quote


Yes I can fully understand how that can happen with the 38 SPL.
built with those "Long cylinders".
To me that is just a bad idea...................
a 38 needs a short cylinder, for this reason.

If the weapon is .357, put those long cylinders on the darn pistol.

If it was me, I would have a recall on all those weapons with long cylinders.

Maybe even have hornady , stop shaving the brass and extending that bullet to .357 specs.

Just two bad ideas, that happened.
Stray safe.

 

[reddog81]

The length of the cylinder is not the problem. The problem is how deep the charge holes are drilled before the throat starts.

According to post #16 in the other thread brass in question is much closer to .357 spec than it is to .38 Special. These rounds shouldn't fit in a SAAMI spec .38 Special chamber.

The difference between .38 Special and .357 brass should be 1.29" vs 1.115" (both with a -.002 tolerance). A SAAMI spec .38 Special chamber should have a diameter of .380" diameter down to 1.16" deep and then taper to .358. Any brass longer than 1.16 should not fit into a 38 special chamber. The brass in question is supposedly around 1.25" long.

Both the brass and chamber appear to be out of spec, however the chamber is much more out of spec.

 

[gman51]

I have often seen warnings " don't try this at home". I think this applies here.