.38 148 Grain HBWC Test

[hotrod150]

.......IMO a 148gr DEWC @ at least 800 fps would be a better choice than a HBWC loaded normally or backwards. The skirt really doesn't help in expansion anyway. The whole reason we use a WC is for the full caliber meplat, not because it will expand.

The HBWC is really not a wadcutter any longer when it is loaded backwards, it is a hollowpoint carried to the extreme. if you think the skirt doesn't help in expansion, look at the
"atomic ammo" thread on the ammo forum and follow the link to Atomic's "lead hollow point" page and look at the photos of the expanded bullets.

 

[hotrod150]

If you wont to hop up a hbwc get some copper plated ones and turn around and let them stick out 1/8 inch.

Why? What's the advantage of the copper-plated bullet over a soft lead bullet? Besides, I don't think I've ever seen a copper-plated HBWC. The plated wadcutters I've seen are bevel-based solids- sometimes with a button nose like Berry's.
One disadvantage to a plated WC is that the ones I've seen don't have a crimp groove, or of course any grease grooves which might be used as a crimp groove. If you let one of those hang out the front of the case without crimping the case into a groove, some degree of "bullet jump" is likely with stout loads.

 

[Moonman]

HBWC are NOT INTENDED for "STOUT" LOADS.

HBWC would be SOFT lead and SWEDGED, NOT CAST.

 

[Forrest r]

It pays to cast your own hbwc's, the harder alloys allow the bullets to be driven harder/faster. Jacketed hbwc's are even better!!! 38spl's top & 44spl's bottom



I've always extended the wc's/hbwc's out further in the cases. I use them in revolvers not semi-autos. The cylinders on the revolvers are tapered & I like to extend the bullets out until they just start to feel snug in the cylinders. Some lyman 358495's loaded in 38spl cases.



I load the cast hbwc's for the 38spl & the 44spl the same, crimped in the bottom lube groove. The bullets on both of them stick out into the cylinders eliminating the freebore in the cylinders.



The cast hbwc's expand nicely.



So do the jacketed hbwc's



The pistols I carry/the bullets pictured are used in, a 38spl & 44spl.



Controlling the expansion/huge meplat is key to any hd bullet. Another thumper, a home made swagged jacketed bullet for a 45acp, a 225gr jhp. The bullets nose is designed to frag (60gr) leaving a hole for the huge meplat of the 165gr slug to follow & keep penetrating.



To aid in bullet tumbling in snub nosed revolvers, load the wc's/hbwc's out further. That will aid in stopping the freebore/bullet skidding/deformation of the bullet.

 

[jimmyj]

Are you sure you're actually getting keyholing? Are you using a solid backer for the target? In the past shooters have seen what they thought was the bullet keyholing but the paper target was actually moving and making the hole appear as the bullet keyholed.

IMO a 148gr DEWC @ at least 800 fps would be a better choice than a HBWC loaded normally or backwards. The skirt really doesn't help in expansion anyway. The whole reason we use a WC is for the full caliber meplat, not because it will expand.

Hi:
I hadn't considered this. The only place I have to shoot is an rather ancient indoor range with POOR lighting. The paper B-27 targets are hung at the top by two clips on a electric driven cable. Any movement at all has the target "Dancing".

 

[jimmyj]

Forrest r:
Is the Charter Arms .44spl with 2" barrel a factory offering ?

 

[Forrest r]

Yes it is, the 2"bbl's ca has been my favorite carry/backup revolver for decades. The 44spl's are under rated, the 220gr hbwc will do the same thing the 148gr hbwc for the 38spl will do. Only better, more smack.

 

[Nevada Ed]

If it is allowed........

We hung a rag off each side of the target with a heavy string
that acted as an anchor to keep the target still for the longer
shots. Can't have it on the very close shots due to a possible
fire danger.

 

[STCM(SW)]

I have 32 of this

from many years ago but don't remember what load I had or powder.

 

[hotrod150]

With the little posts inside the cavity, those look like the early Hydrashock bullets. I don't know if they were sold as components also, or just in loaded ammunition. Load them up to about 850 or so & they oughta perform very well.

 

[hotrod150]

Forrest r:
Is the Charter Arms .44spl with 2" barrel a factory offering ?

I don't care for the newer Charter revolvers, but I kind of liked the old ones. They sure aren't a S&W though. I saw a blue Undercover at the LGS the other day for $245 & I was tempted (very briefly) to buy it, but I think I'll stick to my Chiefs.
I owned a 2" blue 38 Undercover & 3" stainless 22 Pathfinder back about 30 years ago. I don't know about later versions, but I recall the original 44 Bulldog being a 3" gun. if you look closely at the photo of Forrest's 2-incher, you'll see the barrel says "DOG 44 SPL"- obvious cut off from a longer barrel. The front sight has kind of an unusual shape tyoo.

 

[Forrest r]

The older "stratford" bulldogs could be special ordered with a 2" bbl. The standard bbl lengths were 21/2" & 3".

They were cheap guns back then & are still cheap guns today. They really didn't care about the lettering on the bbl. My brother ordered a new bulldog with a 2" bbl back in 1984, it had the same chopped up lettering. I ended up buying that pistol off of him, wore it out & have owned 2 more since then.

Are they a smith? No. They are a cheap truck/pocket pistol ( I have $300 in both of those pictured) that goes bang when the trigger is pulled, nothing more. When s&w comes out with a j-frame in 44spl, I'll buy 1.

 

[hotrod150]

HBWC are NOT INTENDED for "STOUT" LOADS.
HBWC would be SOFT lead and SWEDGED, NOT CAST.

As I understand it, the reason for warning against "stout loads" with the HBWC is that the gasses push on the inner bullet base (up inside the hollow base) more than on the edges of the bullet skirt, and too heavy a load will separate the bullet and send the end of the bullet down the barrel, leaving the skirt behind. Then the next bullet fired encounters the stuck skirt and bingo-- a bulged barrel. Reversing the HBWC lets the gasses push on the entire base of the resulting "ultra hollow point" bullet, so it will remain intact. Apparently Atomic Ammo hasn't had any problem with their +P "lead hollow point" (reversed HBWC) load- see the thread about them in the ammo forum. I don't know whose bullets Atomic uses, but I'm thinking about buying some Speer HBWC's & giving them a try in the reversed configuration.

 

[pete950]

Jimmy,

let me know if your interestead in any of these??
Cirillos "Safe Stop Bullets"

 

[hotrod150]

U ain't convinced me....I still don't see an advantage to the plated WC's, either hollow base or flat base. And I still see a disadvantage, since I don't have a 38 spl taper crimp die- just a roll crimp die.
The one advantage to plated might be to eliminate barrel leading, but so far I haven't had any leading issues with the Speer swaged SWC-HP at 800-850 fps so I expect I wouldn't have any with their HBWC either.
BTW Berry's website shows only DEWC plated bullets on the 38 caliber/.357" diameter page. The photo shows a button nose configuration but I don't know if both ends are button or if one is plain.

 

[4barrel]

plated 148 wc---- show & tell

U ain't convinced me....I still don't see an advantage to the plated WC's, either hollow base or flat base. And I still see a disadvantage, since I don't have a 38 spl taper crimp die- just a roll crimp die.
The one advantage to plated might be to eliminate barrel leading, but so far I haven't had any leading issues with the Speer swaged SWC-HP at 800-850 fps so I expect I wouldn't have any with their HBWC either.
BTW Berry's website shows only DEWC plated bullets on the 38 caliber/.357" diameter page. The photo shows a button nose configuration but I don't know if both ends are button or if one is plain.

U can back off on the roll crimp. Works in .357 also. My load aint in the book. They roll down the pipe close to the speed of sound. When they start getting squirrely @ 25 yards back off a little. A hollow base builds more pressure. I size my zippy loads to .356.

 

[gvsteve]

I load the Berry Plated DEWC with 4.1grs of HP38 in 357 Starline brass. Accurate and easy cleanup compared to Speer LHBWC. I'm shooting these in a 6" GP100

 

[H Richard]

Back when more modern ammo wasn't as available or easily obtained a self defense load for the 5-15 yard ranges was a 148 gr swagged lead HBWC seated in reverse for a pretty big HP. I just checked, and found a half box I made up in 1982. The load was 5.0 gr Unique with a CCI primer in a R-P nickle case. I seated the leading edge of the bullet out .100" from case mouth and taper crimped. I recall it being a reasonable good load, accuracy at 15 yards was in the 2" - 3" variety, and the velocity around 800 fps. It would mushroom out to double it's size in wet newspaper.

 

[hotrod150]

With the speed of sound being roughly 1100 fps, 4 barrel, those loads seem pretty steamy for a j-frame. I'd be more inclined toward something like what H Richard mentioned, only I'd use about 4.5 gr W231. Easy on the gun, easy on the shooter, but deadly on the receiving end.

 

[elpac3]

Key holes may not be necessarily be the fault of the bullet. When revolver shooting, you can induce key holes by "heeling" just as the round goes off.