38 J frame almost +P reloads

[Nevada Ed]

I have some 158 LRN I have been using for target loads and finally got some 158 Lswc delivered to the house. Now I can put a little more crimp on the bullet and try for around 775 to800 fps out of my snub nose if possible, for some longer shots at the range, than just 15 yards, hopefully.

I have Bull, Red, Unique, w231 and Sr4756 on hand with a few wsp, f100 and cci500 primers. Not looking for loading data, just what powders might have got near 800 fps in any of your snub nose J frames or even K frames. One gentleman told me that Bullseye might not get it done before high pressure sets in and I use Trail Boss for my target loads but it is not for high pressure loads.

With the 1 7/8" tube, will I have to forget about a medium crimp and put the screws to the die and strangle that bullet in a death grip to get the higher velocities? Never had to "Crush" a lead bullet before in the "Little gun".

Thanks for any help.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

4756

Of the powders you listed, I'd think 4756 would be "most likely to succeed" in reaching your goal.

 

[alwslate]

Of the powders you mention I think 231 is your best bet. Remington
158 gr +P lead HPs clock 817 fps out of my 1 7/8" md 60. With Win.
brass,WSP primers, 4.5 grs 231 and 158 gr cast SWC I get 800 fps
even out of the md 60. Near +P velocity at standard pressure. I just
use a good roll crimp in the groove on any cast bullet. This load has
not been chronographed out of my 2" md 10-5 but any load that I have
ever clocked from both the 60 and 10 runs a little faster out of the
md 10 as might be expected.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

SR-4756 and those CCI-500 primers will get you where you want to go.

I have a .38 Special +P recipe using HS-6 that will push that bullet to 889 fps from a 2" barrel but it might be a little too hot for most reloaders and the data is not published in any CURRENT manuals.

 

[OKFC05]

4.5gr HP38/WIN2231 gets you there with no fuss and less blast than the slower powders in a stubby. Just a normal firm crimp is fine.
This was my standard .38 range load until IDPA lowered the required power factor, and I have loaded and shot a lot of these over the years.

 

[moxie]

The old Speer #8 lists special loads for snubbies. Unique is listed as getting you mid 800s.

I'd start at least 10% lower than the listed load.

That strangle crimp really won't increase velocity by much if at all. It will certainly deform the bullet badly. That's bad. You just need enough of a "firm" crimp to prevent "bullet jump." Don't worry about any correlation between crimp and velocity.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have 5-2" or shorter revolvers in 38 special. Since I have 23 pounds of Win 231 on the shelf, I always use that. ( I just found a 12 pounder I forgot I had.) The 158 grain projectiles give the best accuracy and 125 grain is bad. Speer loads a 135 grain JHP in their "short barrel" ammo line, and I believe this to be about as light as you would want to go. I have a Lee 146 grain HP mold here some place and should try it out but haven't. Softer alloys work best, but pure lead seems to "lead" the barrel and most "scrap" alloys are a little hard as the contain a lot of wheel weights or type alloys. Lyman #2 is also a bit on the hard side. I've had good luck with 20:1 and 30:1 (lead:tin) alloys and have yet to try 40:1 but it should be accurate as well. I haven't had to go to any sevier crimps, I use a 9mm taper crimp die separate from the seating die in progressive loading. By the way the lighter bullet loads are fine my 4+" revolvers, so they won't have to be disassembled, but I won't load any more. I really don't need or want any ammo that isn't good for all my 38's. Ivan
P.S. By the way, my F-I-L's target load is a very soft 146 grain DEWC over a very light charge of Bullseye @ 650+/- fps in a 4". He went "Distinguished" with that load and during my ccw class I qualified with a small ragged hole out of a 4", and have done almost that well with a snub nose. (He always does better!)

 

[hotrod150]

I like 4.5 gr W231 behind a swaged Speer 158 gr SWC-HP. I haven't chronied that load but it oughta be somewhere between 800-850 fps. I use the same charge behind a hardcast 148 gr DEWC for probably about the same velocity.
I like a firm crimp.I recently bought a carton of Speer swaged 148 gr HBWC's-- the picture of that bullet in my old #10 Speer book shows a crimp groove and three grease grooves, but I was disappointed to see that they no longer have a crimp groove. I loaded some of those up over 3.6 gr W231 and just roll-crimped the case mouth into the bullet. Seemed to work fine.
I also loaded some of these in an inverted position as "lead hollow points" over 4.5 W231. I was hoping to crimp into a grease groove but the ones on this bullet aren't really any smaller diameter than the bullet itself- you can see them, but you can't really feel them with yourfingertips. I crimped into the side of the bullet again and it seemed to work OK. BTW I could see evidence of keyholing when I shot these so apparently this load isnt gonna work out like I hoped.
FWIW I crimp in a seperate operation from seating the bullet. I started out doing it in one fell swoop when I first started loading 38 spl but got some bullet distortion so went to a two-step procedure.

 

[hotrod150]

I have 5-2" or shorter revolvers in 38 special. Since I have 23 pounds of Win 231 on the shelf, I always use that. ( I just found a 12 pounder I forgot I had.) ......

I wish you lived near me- I'd break into your reloading room and "requisition" some of that W231. (just kidding-- don't shoot!) Nobody around here has any. I'm not a high-volume reloader- just one pound would take care of me for a year or more. Even if I can find some online, it looks like close to $30 hazmat fee to ship plus the regular S&H costs plus the cost of the powder itself. No way-- I refuse to pay 50 bucks or more for a $20 can of powder.

 

[hotrod150]

The old Speer #8 lists special loads for snubbies. Unique is listed as getting you mid 800s.
.....

My Speer #10 book doesn't have that special section. How about sharing some of the data...or maybe taking a photo of those pages & posting that?
I have an old "Shooting Crony" chronograph from my rifle-laoading experiments years ago, but when I drug it out it didn't seem to be functining correctly. I need to mess with that some more and see if I can get it working- it'd be nice to hard some accurate data instead of having to extrapolate from the loading manual's results with 4" & 6" barrels.

 

[moxie]

I don't want to post that info, for several reasons. Send me a PM with exactly what you want and I'll reply.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Thanks for all the ideas, guys...........

Reason that I asked was the very low fps that I got out of my 158gr LRN starting loads with a light crimp, cci500 :
3.2 Bullseye at 572 fps
4.0 gr w 231 .... 587
4.0 Trail .......... 646

Going from this up to 800 fps seemed sort of out of the question. Guess a good medium crimp and .5 grs or more powder does make a big difference in that small 38 case?

If I find a good load I will try to take a picture and pass on the information.......... thanks again for the help.