3913 closing issue

Dunno about the Aquila ammo. It's not uncommon for some of the 'budget' 115gr loads to be a bit on the lower end of the power range, though, which can contribute to the potential for grip stability issues to interfere with feeding and/or ejection. (Usually called limp-wristing, but it's not just a relaxed or 'broken' wrist which can fail to support the frame during recoil, as a grip which is too relaxed at the wrong moment can become problematic for some shooters).

I could see how being taught to shoot with a "light grip" could be problematic for some pistols.

The LadySmith 3913 looks "pretty", but it's not otherwise different when it comes to having to firmly support the frame during the critical moments of recoil so the slide can make its full run at the intended velocity.

Does it still have the factory delrin grip? if it does, you might consider trying the Hogue grips. That really seemed to help our smaller shooters of diminutive stature and somewhat lesser grip strength using 3913's.

Grip issues (either relaxed grip or an unlocked wrist) are weird, though. Some folks can't 'limp-wrist' a pistol regardless of how hard they try to do so, and others can do it at will ... and others only seem to experience it with an unpredictable range and selection of pistols.

Fastbolt,

Thank you for the tips. I took the pistol completely apart and cleaned it very well. It was fairly gunky inside the frame although the firing pin passage was not too bad. I dried all of the components and re-assembled everything and lubed all of the moving parts.

I will suggest the Hogue grips to her, but she may resist. She has small hands and part of the reason that she likes the 3913/14 is that it fits her hands perfectly.

Do you have any suggestions for ammo? Keep in mind that the purpose of this pistol is to be her EDC. She needs to find ammo that she can practice with reliably and then find ammo that she can be comfortable enough to trust her life with...

Thanks again, you've been extremely helpful!!!

Andrew
 
I dried all of the components and re-assembled everything and lubed all of the moving parts.

FWIW, armorers are taught to leave the internal parts of the frame dry, without lubrication. The exception is the hammer, which can receive a small drop of oil on each side where it rubs within the frame. Not enough for it to run off and migrate to places other than the flats of the hammer inside the frame. Excessive lubrication can attract fouling & debris and sometimes accumulate into a sludge. This sludge can interfere with the intended movement of the parts (like the sear, drawbar, disconnector, etc). I had to de-gunk (technical term ;) ) a 4566TSW because of an excessive amount of solvent/lube which had accumulated around the sear, hardening into a nasty mixture which prevented the sear from freely moving. It ended up being brought to my attention because the hammer started following the slide (sear couldn't snap back quickly enough to catch the single action notches on the hammer and hold it cocked during live fire). Once I cleaned the gun the "problem" disappeared and the gun worked just fine. The sear spring, sear & hammer all appeared in good condition. Just too dirty and fouled with a nasty sludge that gummed things up.

I will suggest the Hogue grips to her, but she may resist. She has small hands and part of the reason that she likes the 3913/14 is that it fits her hands perfectly.

Understandable. The Hogue grips will add just a bit of extra thickness and "meat" to the backstrap area. It might adversely affect trigger reach. However, a few of our females with small hands still found their 3913's to fit fine in their hands. It's a case-by-case determination, though.

Do you have any suggestions for ammo? Keep in mind that the purpose of this pistol is to be her EDC. She needs to find ammo that she can practice with reliably and then find ammo that she can be comfortable enough to trust her life with...

Have you tried any of the 147gr JHP's? Maybe even the 124gr Gold Dot or Golden Sabre (either the standard pressure loads or the +P versions of either). Sometimes a slightly higher pressure round, which can produce a bit more slide velocity, might help mitigate a minor grip stability issue ... but the downside might be a little more felt recoil. Just depends on the shooter. Felt recoil is a really subjective thing.

The shooter-related influence, being the grip technique and how well the shooter can hold the frame stable during recoil, can often be the most common cause of issues like this, though. It's not that the shooter needs to hold the gun in a "death grip" (a nicely consistently firm handshake grip seems to work for most folks), but keeping the wrist locked behind the grip is important.

If the wrist "breaks" either side-to-side (trying to angle the strong-hand wrist to "center" the gun in front of the shooter), or up-and-down (angling/bending the wrist to "lift" the gun up into the sight plane without raising the arm so the shooter's forearm is behind - and supporting - the wrist/grip) ... grip stability issues might result. Depends on the shooter.

Locking the wrist so the forearm is straight behind it, and then adopting a slightly "forward" stance (leaning the upper body somewhat forward, and NOT allowing the upper body/shoulders to lean backward under recoil) can usually help a number of folks when it comes to supporting the gun during recoil.

If someone doesn't maintain "follow-through" on their grip through their trigger press (versus holding on and then suddenly slightly relaxing as they think the gun is about to fire), then the frame might not remain firmly positioned and stable so the slide can travel fully rearward, at its intended and proper velocity ... and then return forward, under the intended spring tension, stripping a round from the magazine, feeding it into the chamber and then allowing the slide & barrel to continue forward and lock into battery.

A grip which is neither firm enough, nor supported by a locked wrist/forearm to the degree necessary, can sometimes "rob" the recoil spring of its ability to work as intended in feeding, chambering and locking up into battery. To put it simply, it can throw off the feeding timing.

Naturally, some attention to enhancing some grip & forearm strength is helpful to a lot of folks, regardless of their gender.

It's not possible to diagnose and give any sort of a definitive answer to theses sorts of things online. It really requires being present to observe a shooter to see the totality of what's happening with the particular shooter/gun/ammo combination. Sorry.

Just my thoughts in general, based upon what I've experienced and observed with other shooters as an instructor over the years.

Wish I could help, but I can't pretend to give you the "definitive answer" to your questions via an online discussion. :)

If I could, I'd have requested being able to "telecommute" when working as an instructor (safer, at times :eek: ) ... except when I wanted to put in some trigger time, of course. ;) ).
 
Fastbolt,

Thank you again for the great information!

We actually went to the range again last night and there were considerably less problems. She shot about 150 rounds of both the 115 grain Federal and the 124 grain Aguila and there wasn't a single case of failure to go to battery.

One of the guys at the range actually gave some advice that was almost word for word what you said in regards to grip, wrist firmness, and stance. I think that pep-talk did as much for the reliable operation as anything that I actually did to the gun. LOL

The range also had a Hogue rubber grip sleeve that they let us try. She actually liked how it felt but said she would prefer a set of full grips. I am going to get a set and that should help with greater control.

Andrew
 
Glad to hear it's better.

A solid grip (doesn't have to be a white-knuckled death grip), proper lubrication, and recoil & mag springs in good condition can do a lot to resolve a number of "gun problems". ;)

Bear in mind the low-cost, "budget" ammo sometimes does produce power levels that might run at the lower end of the normal range, and might not produce the slide velocities of some of the better quality (albeit usually more expensive) ammo, though. Personally, I tend to stay with ammo made by one of the major American companies who have gained experience making training & duty ammo for LE/Gov customers.
 
I received my replacement recoil spring and magazine springs today. The recoil spring was about 1/2 inch shorter then the replacement and the new one is noticeably stiffer. The magazine springs were also shorter than the new ones by about a 1/2 inch. I suspect my problem may be solved. My next trip to the range should tell.
 
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Okay. Hope it works out for you.

FWIW, S&W used to tell armorers that once a recoil spring reached 4 or more coils less in length compared to a new spring, it was probably wise to replace it. Now they just give a time in-service/rounds-fired replacement recommendation (5yrs left loaded/5K rounds).

I've seen 3913/CS9 mag springs still running well after becoming even shorter than losing half an inch of free length. They often will become at least a coil's length shorter just being loaded over a short time, but spring makers will generally tell you the springs are expected to take an initial 'set' when used. Once they start to get a lot shorter, or fail to lift the follower to lock the slide on an empty mag, or lift rounds fast enough for proper feeding timing ... you're ready for a new spring.

I like to replace my mag springs before they exhibit symptoms of having become too weak for normal function. The reason is I can't predict where that "first" symptom may occur ... on the range, or outside the range (for real). I'm usually a bit more conservative in my recoil & mag spring replacement intervals than that recommended by the factory. That's just me, though.
 
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I wasn't too worried about the mag springs. They seemed to be doing the job but I bought a new mag so I put new springs in the old ones just to make them all even. I've never had much issues with mag springs in any of my pistols come to think of it. I just figured since I didn't know how old they were I might as well replace them. I probably should have done that with the recoil spring before I took it out the first time.
 
Fastbolt,

Thank you again for the great information!

We actually went to the range again last night and there were considerably less problems. She shot about 150 rounds of both the 115 grain Federal and the 124 grain Aguila and there wasn't a single case of failure to go to battery.

One of the guys at the range actually gave some advice that was almost word for word what you said in regards to grip, wrist firmness, and stance. I think that pep-talk did as much for the reliable operation as anything that I actually did to the gun. LOL

The range also had a Hogue rubber grip sleeve that they let us try. She actually liked how it felt but said she would prefer a set of full grips. I am going to get a set and that should help with greater control.

Andrew

Sounds like you have a pretty decent range there, too.
 
I shot around 100 rounds through my 3913 today. They new spring did the trick. It are everything and shot FANTASTIC. What a great pistol.
 
Good to hear.

Optimal feeding & functioning is pretty dependent on recoil & magazine springs remaining in good condition, as well as good condition magazines (lips, followers, etc).
 
Yup. I bought one new mag and new mag springs for the others. I numbered the mags too. Mag 1 would nosedive the first round into the feed ramp when shooting the 147gr WWB JHP. Ball fed fine. The other two mags had no problems at all. Now I just need to install night sights, and shoot a couple boxes of my carry ammo and its ready to rock. Thanks for your input guys.
 
Mag 1 would nosedive the first round into the feed ramp when shooting the 147gr WWB JHP.

Was that before or after the new spring?

If after, was that when releasing the slide by hand to feed the first round from the mag, or using the slide stop lever? (If by hand, on the first round, try using the slide stop lever ... or else make sure you pull the slide all the way back and then briskly & completely release the slide to run forward to pick up the round. Any hesitation to release the slide which results in "easing" it forward can cause a nose-dive feeding stoppage on the first round (with a new, heavy spring).

I've fed and fired many tens of thousands of rounds of the USA9JHP2 through 3rd gen guns over the years, including a lot of that through my own 3913 & CS9, as well as having watched it fired through other 3913's & CS9's.

If it was a stoppage induced just during feeding the first round,manually, it's not the same thing as what generally happens during live-fire, when the slide is running at its normal velocity back & forward.

Of course, it's still possible for the occasional shooter to exhibit a momentary problem with grip technique/stability and induce a shooter-caused issue now and again, but the 3rd gen guns seem pretty tolerant of such things, in my experience, as long as good ammo is being used and the gun is clean, well maintained & properly lubricated.

Then again, the "white box" stuff is bargain, low-cost ammo, and it pays to keep an eye out for an occasional QC issues that might affect things ... ;)

USA9JHP2 147gr JHP: (clickable thumbnails)

 
Sadly I numbered my magazine but I didn't keep track of which was the new mag and which were the two I put the new springs into. I did note which on had the problem though. Normally I dropped the slide using the slide catch. I'll have to try it with the "slingshot" next time to see if that takes care of it. In general it will be a range mag until it starts to work better.
 
I wanted to give everyone that is interested a quick update. Last week I installed a set of Hogue rubber grips on her 3914LS. I don't know why people complain about the fit and finish of these grips. Yes, they did require a little hand fitting to make them fit "just right" but it took a whole 5 minutes. Anyway, the grips felt great and she was feeling good about them as well.

Today we went to the range and she put about 100 rounds through it without any problems. We used both the Federal 115 grain FMJ and the Aguila 124 grain FMJ. No failures of any kind and she said that the felt recoil was less and she had better control. Good stuff.

Thank you all again for the helpful comments and suggestions.

Andrew

P.S. I am still in love with my 4516-2 and my Seecamp is much happier with the Speer Gold Dots.
 

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