.45 ACP: What is it good for? Absolutely nothing?

[IAM Rand]

Am I missing something? Has a bad guy complained about getting shot by a 45? Have they complained about being shot by any round? If the bad guy is complaining about being shot then the person pulling the trigger did not shoot in the right place or stopped too soon.

 

[nachogrande]

AND HERE WE GO.

The FBI agents were a bunch of wimps that could not handle the 40 cal. pistol !!

They backed it off to a wimpy 9mm, to where ALL there "Agents" could qualify.

That statement should be good for 2-3 more pages, or getting the thread locked. Popcorn anyone?

 

[Echo40]

How about we just stay on-topic and not derail the thread based on one poster's radical opinion?

9mm vs .45 ACP posts are one thing that I'm willing to begrudgingly accept in context, but having the thread derail into some lame argument in regards to the FBI over a single post is just dumb.

If you want to see that argument play out then I'm sure you can find it elsewhere.

 

[RoninPhx]

Many reports of .45 ACP ball knocking down lightly-built japs during the Pacific.

One well documented case, though it may have occurred later in Vietnam I can’t remember, was one Marine or Soldier was in a rice patty (yeah I think it was Vietnam now) and was ambushed by three enemy. He pulled his Colt’s M1911A1 .45 and with a single shot each, dropped each enemy with authoritude.

He later said that if he were armed with a lesser gun, namely a 9mm, he would have been dead. Time has shown in theater that 9mm ball has next to 0 stopping power on an aggressive indoctrinated foe, while the .45 even with hardball will drop them almost every time.

And as far as modern hollowpoints go, the same advances touted for the 9mm have also occurred with the mighty .45 Automatic Colt’s Pistol. True you do give up some capacity vs. a 9mm gun, but with so many failures to stop with the “Tiny-9” it more than makes up for it in sheer knock-down dropping factor.

Just my $0.02.

the man you are refering to was in a rice paddy in vietnam. His name was John Holbrook, a frequent poster on culver's shooting pages. He brought the 1911 home with him, and had an extensive collection of 1911's. Also produced a hold open device for the garand if i remember right. His story in the rice paddy was on the culver's forum at various points. Use to correspond with him from time to time, he was a acknowleged expert on 1911's.
hoping this is acceptable to post, here is his story:If You’re Serious, Get a .45! or The Colt M1911A1 in Combat >> Sight M1911

 

[RoninPhx]

I have a Beretta 92FS and the less said about it the better. The other 9mm is an old Sig P6 made in West Germany. Yeah it's a single stack with 8 rounds. Having said that I shoot the P6 much better than the Beretta. normally all I use at the range is WWB 115 grain FMJ's. Still got pretty good accuracy. However I bought about 500 rds of the Swiss 124 grain FMJ's sometime back. Found out the P6 loves the 124 grain bullets plus they are loaded to CIP specs which I found out they are a little hotter but do give me better accuracy. Been shooting 45 acp for years. Truth be told wouldn't want to be hit by either of them. I have an aversion to foreign metallic objects hitting me. Speer used to sell a 45 acp load with a 200 JHP called the flying ash tray. Fed in both my 1943 Ithaca and my Springfield Armory 45. Great accuracy from both but the SA one always did better especially with the highly visible iron sights than the Ithaca. This 9mm versus 45acp arguement has been going on for years. next one will be the 4 megawatt pulse rifle versus the 10 megawatt pulse rifle. Frank

at one time you could buy that p6 for about 230bucks. some had the factory targets and were basically unused. friend in bavaria told me average usage, if used, was about 50 rounds a year. manufacture date was on gun, so multiply 50 times the number of years till importation, get the usage of the gun. Few years ago, being in love with the speer flying ashtray, i located about ten boxes of the bullets, still use them. the complaint was with the wide hollowpoint they would hang up in some guns. i never had that problem. loaded with power pistol, it is awesome the way it smacks water jugs.
as to that p6 and accuracy, my daughter first time shooting one, was popping spent shotgun casings time after time at about ten yards.

 

[RoninPhx]

i could add one more comment. years ago a guy i knew, deputy, had to fire a 230gr ball out of his 45 at a bad guy in a double wide trailer. it went through the guy, a wall, and hit his partner on the other side. They will penetrate.

 

[jupiter1]

And if the 9 is wimpy, I guess that makes Americans smarter than the whole rest of the world, who haven't in a hundred years figured out that their 9mm is weak.

Mega handgun power is an American thing.

In 1902 the Germans demanded a larger caliber cartridge than the 7.65mm Parabellum for their new Luger pistol. Thus, the 'big bore', 9mm Parabellum was born. For the rest of the world, the caliber debate had ended.

 

[LPD256]

I’ve been saying for years “it’s not the size of the wand, it’s the magic of the magician”. I wasn’t talking about guns, but the saying holds true here as well.......

 

[BigBill]

Ask any recent war vet how the 9mm vs the performance of the 45acp.

In a close quarter conflict it takes too many 9mm rounds to kill the bad guy. The 100yo 45acp will always be the rooster in the hen house amongst the ladies(9mm/40cal ect).

 

[BigBill]

I'm waiting for a 50 cal 1911.

.50 GI - Wikipedia

 

[max503]

The 45 acp is best because That Is What I Own and have owned for the last 35 years. My molds, dies, holsters, and magazines are 45 acp. My Dillon is 45 acp. So that makes it better.
(IfIwasstartingoutfromscratchtodayIthinkIwouldgeta9mm.)

 

[lrrifleman]

Mega handgun power is an American thing. Not that it lacks utility for hunting and certain competition, but anything bigger than 9mm or .38 is mostly overkill.

In an era of 10 round maximum capacity magazines, I would prefer 10 rounds of 45 than 10 rounds of 9mm to neutralize a threat. Honestly, in a defensive situation, the term "overkill" should not exist in a person's vocabulary. I would rather any armed encounter facing me or my family be over before it starts.

 

[mike campbell]

"And the Europeans and everybody else says, Look at those Americans. We've known all along that Nine is all you need."

This is all the reason anybody should need to favor the 45ACP. There was once 13 million Germans and 4 million Italians fighting 16 million Americans in Europe. Some carried 9mm's, some carried 45's. How'd that turn out?

 

[dogzebra]

No argument here. .45 AUTO and 9mm PARA, both have always been favorites of mine.

 

[growr]

Wonder what will become of the very large Government order for .40 ammo that was awarded to Federal....seems like it was for billions of rounds?
Probably destroyed somewhere or in the ocean.....

I am sure that the government made a very wise decision in regards to this.........

Randy

 

[Darkenfast]

"And the Europeans and everybody else says, Look at those Americans. We've known all along that Nine is all you need."

This is all the reason anybody should need to favor the 45ACP. There was once 13 million Germans and 4 million Italians fighting 16 million Americans in Europe. Some carried 9mm's, some carried 45's. How'd that turn out?

Actually, the THIRTY caliber pistol and submachine gun round that the USSR used probably made a much bigger contribution to winning the war than the .45 did. Better stock up on Tokarev!

 

[Walkingwolf]

I prefer buttered popcorn, but it is bad for my heart...

 

[smoothshooter]

Here's the dirty secret on the .45 ACP: it's a solution in search of a problem. Has been since before 1911.

The story is told about the Moros in the Philippines. How the .38 revolvers wouldn't stop the determined Moros. So they came up with the .45 ACP (original Browning spec was 200 grains at 950 fps; Army changed it to 230 grains at 850). And that solved the problem, no?

No. They never tell the sequel to the story: .45 didn't stop those Moros any better than .38 did. A lot of Moros weren't stopped by .30-40 Krag hits.

History repeated itself 80 years later. .40 S&W was invented because 9mm wouldn't stop determined Crooks. But .40 doesn't stop Crooks any better than 9mm. Another solution in search of a problem.

And the Europeans and everybody else says, Look at those Americans. We've known all along that Nine is all you need.

Having said all that, I love the .45. Been loading and shooting it for 40 years. It's low pressure, therefore easy on the cases and the gun. The big cases and bullets are easy to handle. It's slow so there's less tendency to lead the bore.

But it (and the .40) don't do a thing that 9 can't do better.


BOTTOM LINE:

At the range, I'm shooting .45.

On the street, I'm packing 9mm.

If I remember correctly, the only thing that put the Moros down decisively almost every time was the 1897 pump 12 gauge shotgun with buckshot or slugs.

 

[Westie1]

Would we be still having this discussion if DWM had continued on in the trials that lead to the adoption of the 1911?

 

[BigBill]

Actually, the THIRTY caliber pistol and submachine gun round that the USSR used probably made a much bigger contribution to winning the war than the .45 did. Better stock up on Tokarev!

The 7.62x25 tokarev round is one little speedy round. The surplus ammo was dirt cheap by the case. The Russian sub machine gun did win the war for the Russians, plus the millions of mosins and svt 38/40 tokarev.