5 shot snub & recent MD shooting

I put my job at risk by carrying a Kahr .380 to work every day before I retired.

Bohica nailed it. I would rather die fighting than under my desk pleading for my life.

Sure, I would have preferred my 1911, but my situation demanded deep concealment or unemployment. And thank the Lord, I never needed the .380.

Copy that me too on the job front. Always pocket. .32 .380 , 442 , and c even pull off a L C9 in rotation..To get caught would loose job for sure. But forced to do a daily business bank drop usally very late I carried always. Glad I am retired I rarely pocket these days I W B 40 or 45.
 
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Mass vs. Targeted Shooting

It appears that the MD killer targeted that news office over some previous grievance. It wasn't a random attack against anonymous citizens as in the more common mass shooting.

A mass killer often picks a target-rich environment. If you're not the first person he selects, you may have the opportunity to deliver a single accurate shot before he knows of your presence. My guess is that the shooter would suffer from tunnel vision and only see the person in his sights at that instant. You could be standing next to that victim and the gunman may not see you.
 
I was not there, I don't know the sequence of how this shooting occurred.


It is my understanding that this mad man used a pump operated shotgun....

What's being described as someone hearing the shooter reloading,
in all likelihood was the action being cycled, not the magazine being replenished.

If a 38 snub was what I had on me at the time...
That's what I would engage with at the first good opportunity to make a disabling shot(s).

With that being said, and what with the foreknowledge of these kind of happenings, comes wisdom.

These kind of things in life...Causes me to choose a 44 or 45 caliber EDC.
I've had lots of jobs, I've got only one life.
And, I've got a woman that loves me and children & grandkids that I adore...
I kinda owe it to them to try and stick around.





Think I could get by with this'n......


S_W_37_3_inch.jpg



But, life's experiences have taught me a few tough lessons.


What I have learned......


44_RM1.jpg


.




.
 
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I do not think its possible for a civilian to have an answer for every possible scenario that one may encounter in public. When it comes to these type situations where you have a shooter with an AR, AK, shotgun etc, most common carried concealed firearms are going to be at a disadvantage on a firearm for firearm basis(ignoring the shooters ability). You also have to take into consideration the work environment. A person may not be able to come to school, work or whatever packing full commando style and ready for anything that most likely on a odds basis will never happen.

Scenarios do change when these shooters are engaged.

A 5 shot J frame in the pocket with a speed strip is fine for me in most situations for EDC and in my personal situation being in a hot climate its really the only set up that insures that i am carrying all the time.

If I worked in a higher risk place where my dress code could conceal better like a jewelry store, convenience store etc, I would add something with a higher capacity while keeping the J frame as backup.
 
I am sure that carrying a gun would get you fired. I'm a gun guy to the end, but my current job does not allow firearms. I'm not gonna lose my job and be arrested and explain that to my wife and kids. Much better odds of being discovered and losing my job than being in a work shooting. People need to work to support themselves. There are many places where we voluntarily disarm to avoid arrest.

Same here. I'm a commercial driver for a publicly funded company in Illinois, of all places. If I were to get into even a fended-bender it's an automatic drug test and all the entailing contact with law enforcement, paperwork, etc. I couldn't go through that with a concealed gun. And the cops would know right off that I have a permit. It's against state and federal law, I believe, for me to carry on the job.
 
It takes no imagination to understand how this could happen at my doctor's office or the office where I used to work (I am retired as of last Friday!!). We all have to make choices in how we prepare for such an event. I would think that reaching into my pocket for my Model 649 would be a lot more effective than reaching for my Swiss Army knife or the Glock 17 I had to leave in the Jeep.
 
It takes no imagination to understand how this could happen at my doctor's office or the office where I used to work (I am retired as of last Friday!!). We all have to make choices in how we prepare for such an event. I would think that reaching into my pocket for my Model 649 would be a lot more effective than reaching for my Swiss Army knife or the Glock 17 I had to leave in the Jeep.

Or being limited to calling 911 and hiding. Makes my mind explode.
 
This "stone cold killer" was hiding under a desk when the cops showed up. I think my 5 shot snub would have worked just fine.

Only my impression from reading news stories, but my impression is whack job shooters like this guy seem wilt at the first sign of resistance. Not always, but most of the time. Gotta go with the odds.
 
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I've hear a few comments from posters that a 5 shot isn't going to match a shotgun armed Murderer. Good grief,..... you cannot be serious. ANY firearm in that scenario is far better than no firearms. People are getting way too focused on what weapons are used and can they be matched. I am quite sure one of those folks murdered or wounded would have loved to be able to defend themselves from this Homicidal Coward. Or as another poster commented,..... why wasn't he taking incoming assaults as he was reloading? I'm no Hero but I am not a Coward neither. Live. Go after him with all you have or whatever improvised weapon you can muster. God bless the dead and wounded and I curse this Murderer and may he rot in the sea of fire.
 
I was stationed in Maryland. I tried to get a carry license. They would not issue one for personal protection, but "if I owned a store I could get one to protect the money."
This whole rant about "what they should carry in MD" is irrelevant and borderline ignorant.
Few ordinary people in MD can carry anything legally.
 
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Classic case of gun laws meant to "make us all safe" simply leaving good people defenseless.....

Most of us know the truth about gun laws/gun free zones...all political feel good nonsense.

Prayers to the victims in MD
 
Within shotgun range, I wouldn't want a 5 shot snub nose, 1911 45acp, 17 shot 9mm, or a 44 magnum, but any of them would be far better than nothing.

"Within range" is a great point! Within shotgun range I'd want anything rather than nothing, agreed. But at the further reaches of shotgun range I'd skip the handgun altogether and run like heck. For me as a civilian, survival is the name of the game, and the gun isn't always the best option, at least while I'm still young enough and able enough to book it.
 
Thinking on the OP's question....of course no one wants to go against a shotgun with a snub. I think we can over think this sometimes.

In active shooter situations the evil guy chooses weapons that can kill as many as fast as possible....as the victim/defender we are only concerned about stopping the evil shooter (usually one...I know anything's possible) Having a small gun that is ALWAYS with you puts you way ahead of the unarmed person when going against a single attacker. 5 rounds of .38+p ain't that unarmed!

Sadly as stated before, some good people in some places have had that choice made for them by their government.
 
Maryland is a "shall issue" state, albeit with slightly more restrictive laws than say, Florida. So there's really no excuse that absolutely no one was armed except that journalists are mainly flaming liberals who all think that only police and military should be armed.

Maryland issues permits like NJ: they are may issue, which means nobody but the well connected gets one. I lived in Maryland for 5 years. No one gets to carry there except the gangsters and the police.
 
Title pretty much says it. In that scenario, 12ga against your 5 shot snub. Would you want something else for your EDC?

Fred, I don't pick my off-duty/retirement weapons predicated upon only facing a certain type of attacker's weapon.

The training, quals & drills I practice for use with my J-frames are the same as those used with my larger belt guns.

Comes to that, how is this any different than the earlier days of carrying a 6rd service revolver on-duty? I fully expected I might have to use that revolver against someone armed with a shotgun. As a matter of fact, I remember one night in an "active" beat where I saw a man walking down the sidewalk carrying a Mossberg pump shotgun with an extended mag tube, and the first thing I reached for was my 6rd duty revolver.

The only difference is that I realize my diminutive 5-shot snubs require more effort on my part in order to obtain practical accuracy and controllability, compared to larger pistols and revolvers.

Yes, the inherent 5rd ammo limitation probably means the smaller weapon is likely anticipated as being sufficient to use against 1-2 attackers (although I remember learning of a case where a cop effectively and successfully used one against 3 armed robbers).

Another way to look at it is when considering one of the threat targets we've often used for some training & quals, when we use those large, full color pictures of different people holding different firearms. One of them is a "threat" wearing obvious body armor over a t-shirt and holding a subgun. Yes, I've used that particular threat target when running one of my 5rd snubs for practice drills or a qual, and when wandering out and about in public I have in the back of my mind that I might run into some nutcase who would essentially fulfill this "scenario" ... even if I'm only carrying one of my J-frame snubs.

The size of the gun can introduce training and manipulation difficulties for many shooters, and even require more frequent loading (reloading) for extended drills and qual courses-of-fire ... but it's still just a handgun.

When the rubber meets the road, it's still the skillset, mindset, training and experience of the guy/gal carrying it that's likely to mean the difference.

So, yes Fred, I still anticipate that one of the real-world threats I might encounter could be a shotgun wielding nut in some public place, and I still often choose to carry one of my 5-shot snubs as a retirement weapon, even keeping this in mind. (Ditto one of my 6-shot LCP's comes to that.)

Would I rather have my own 12GA shotgun, or even a rifle, if facing a shotgun wielding nut? Of course.

It's certainly preferable to being unarmed.
 
Single nutter with pump 12 ga blows out window to gain access and commences fire. Pretty hard to save the 1 st victims, I am neither a cop nor a hero. Nutter stops to stuff 12 ga in the tube, unholster 642 and let go 4 shots from 25 yds. Nutter shouldn't have "collateral targets" around him (sorry, it's almost always guys) and they should be going away from shooter at that point. Perish forbid I missed all 4, fire last rd and quickly reload. Hopefully shooter down with 1 st 4, maybe last shot, and hopefully at least shooter might think I have already reloaded and hesitate until I have. I typed all of this sitting safely in the house with a bucket of guns. This message would be entirely different if'n somebody was shooting at me. Joe
 
Not a 5 shot but my Beretta has 13+1 and would have shot till the threat was neutralized when was reloading .. Don't just wait to die ..

I know several that carry against the rules of their employer for exactly the reasons in this story ..
 
ANOTHER ARMCHAIR WHAT IF/ WHAT WOULD YOU DO/USE.

YEAH, BUT let's see the other fella conceal carry the shotgun. :rolleyes: Condolences to the victims families. I wasn't there, I don't know how it went down or IF they died cowering. NO JUDGEMENTS from me.
 
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