fxdrider
Member
Just spitballin' here...have you tried shooting the gun with its open sights to see if it does the same thing?
686 won't shoot good groups
- Thread starter Teep
- Start date
Just spitballin' here...have you tried shooting the gun with its open sights to see if it does the same thing?
If only I could shoot with iron sights. As much as I would like to do that old age has forced me to optics which makes carrying a handgun not nearly as convenient.
I have decided to wait until I can get some place for supplies and scrub the barrel good to be sure there is no lead in it and then test it with jacketed ammo. I'll post a follow up when this can happen, darn virus.
fxdrider
Member
Understood. I'm getting there myself.
You can use a jacketed bullet as a pin gage for the cylinder throats. See if you can slide a .357 bullet into the throats. You should try it in each chamber to check for variance between chambers. Bullets are pretty close to advertised diameter.
If you have a soft or swagged bullet oil up the bore and push it through the bore. Pay attention to the amount the of force it takes. The barrel may be choked down where it is threaded into the frame. Lead bullets MUST be .001 or .002" bigger than the barrel diameter. Your barrel may not be .357 like it is supposed to be. If larger you will need to go larger on bullet size.
Also on reloads the neck sizer die may not be sizing the case large enough. Die manufacturers assume you are using jacketed bullets and rheir neck sizer is probably not over .355 and likely smaller. When a lead bullet is used it can be sized down just by seating it in the case. Pull a bullet and see what size it is after seating. Also pay attention to your crimping procedure especially id using the Lee FCD.
Also older Smiths use a 5 groove barrel which make bore diameter tough to measure.
Are your groups vertical or horizontal or round?
If you have a soft or swagged bullet oil up the bore and push it through the bore. Pay attention to the amount the of force it takes. The barrel may be choked down where it is threaded into the frame. Lead bullets MUST be .001 or .002" bigger than the barrel diameter. Your barrel may not be .357 like it is supposed to be. If larger you will need to go larger on bullet size.
Also on reloads the neck sizer die may not be sizing the case large enough. Die manufacturers assume you are using jacketed bullets and rheir neck sizer is probably not over .355 and likely smaller. When a lead bullet is used it can be sized down just by seating it in the case. Pull a bullet and see what size it is after seating. Also pay attention to your crimping procedure especially id using the Lee FCD.
Also older Smiths use a 5 groove barrel which make bore diameter tough to measure.
Are your groups vertical or horizontal or round?
I finally had a chance to retest the 686 after thoroughly cleaning the bore. Using 158 gr. Sierra JSP at 25 yards I would not call it a group. Note the two circled in red as they are starting to tumble. Do I find a good smith or send it back to the factory?
Protocall_Design
Vendor
Your call. I would find a good smith. It looks like the barrel to me, if timing is good. Probably could fix the original barrel, if not, fit a new one. Can't say anything for sure without the gun in hand. We are just guessing.
Telecaster
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From a rest, or off-hand?
ruggyh
Member
Shoot a set of 5 from the same cylinder would help determine if you have a barrel issue. just a thought.
be safe
Ruggy
be safe
Ruggy
4barrel
Member
You could slug the barrel with a 40 caliber round ball to see if it has an easy spot. If you reload you could try a .360 lead boolit or try some 148 hbwcs a little hotter than normal in 38 special brass=like 3.2 of Bullseye. I would trade the gun and get another before I would do a barrel swap. If still in warranty send er back. Good luck and I would kike the end of the story. Vertical you have less than 1 1/2'' group.
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I won't push it off on someone else. Needs to be resolved before I get rid of it if I ever do. The vertical string really concerns me, looks like a bad shooter but my hold was very consistent and at only 25 yards. I can shoot my 617 under an inch at 50 yards from the same setup.
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357 shooter
Member
I would send it back to Smith if it is still under any kind of warranty. They produced the gun , give them a chance to make it right.
A good 686 should shoot much better than the target you fired even at 50 yards let alone 25.
The best target group I ever fired with my 6 inch 586 was using the 158 Sierra.
4barrel
Member
Someone that is not a good shooter would like to have it for a for a first gun or a bedside gun. Kind of like your first car--Not the best- but all you can afford.
hogblue
Member
Just surmising, if it was keyholing from leading up it would show up at less than 25 yds. Those two rounds don't really appear to be keyholes.
Maybe bbl crown or headspace issue.
Maybe bbl crown or headspace issue.
andyo5
Member
Often I find that if I staple my target onto a piece of cardboard that already has bullet holes in it, a hole shot into my target will look like those two if it hits adjacent to a hole that was already there in the cardboard.
Try it again with fresh cardboard that has no pre-existing holes.
scooter123
Member
Dont waste you time or money going to a gunsmith. If your 686 was made after 1990 (not 100% sure of that date, could be 1992) it has a LIFETIME warranty. Let S&W correct their mess.
Update
I removed my Vortex Venom sight and installed a Bushnell TRS-25 I had on an airgun. Went to sight it in with the same results as before. Then I shot some .38 Special reloads using 125gr. Acme PC round nose bullets and shot a 7/8" group. Decided to try some factory loads starting with Federal 158gr. JSP and put three shots in a 1" group at 25 yards. Something tells me I need to work up some loads and not blame the gun. The Federal rounds seemed to be hotter than the reloads I was shooting both 125gr. and 158gr. Thanks everyone for your assistance in helping me solve my problem and thank S&W for the great handguns. If anyone has suggestions for load development please feel free to offer your advice.
I removed my Vortex Venom sight and installed a Bushnell TRS-25 I had on an airgun. Went to sight it in with the same results as before. Then I shot some .38 Special reloads using 125gr. Acme PC round nose bullets and shot a 7/8" group. Decided to try some factory loads starting with Federal 158gr. JSP and put three shots in a 1" group at 25 yards. Something tells me I need to work up some loads and not blame the gun. The Federal rounds seemed to be hotter than the reloads I was shooting both 125gr. and 158gr. Thanks everyone for your assistance in helping me solve my problem and thank S&W for the great handguns. If anyone has suggestions for load development please feel free to offer your advice.
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Teep,
Have the same problem with a 686 performance center I bought about 6-8 months ago. Can't get better than 3" at 25 yards from a rest. That includes several .38 and .357 factory loadings and my best .38 hand load. I am very experienced with accuracy testing of pistols at that distance, so it is not me. I just don't have much confidence in S&W revolvers these days.
Had a similar problem with a 625 many years ago. This is not a suggestion but had Clark Custom replace the barrel. My test target below.
Hope it all works out for you,
fuzzy
Have the same problem with a 686 performance center I bought about 6-8 months ago. Can't get better than 3" at 25 yards from a rest. That includes several .38 and .357 factory loadings and my best .38 hand load. I am very experienced with accuracy testing of pistols at that distance, so it is not me. I just don't have much confidence in S&W revolvers these days.
Had a similar problem with a 625 many years ago. This is not a suggestion but had Clark Custom replace the barrel. My test target below.
Hope it all works out for you,
fuzzy
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