9 MM. 3 1/2" barrel, CCW ammo selection?

[KSCowboy]

I just came across this thread and thought I would add some chrono data from my M&P9c. None of these factory loads are +P or +P+.

Win. 115 gr Silvertip 1187 fps
Speer 124 gr Gold Dot 1048 fps
Fed. 147 gr Hydroshock 985 fps
Win. 147 gr Law Enforce HP 917 fps
Handload:
Ranier 124 gr HP 6.5 gr Power Pistol 1187 fps

Now just to throw in something I have worked up for my Colt Gov't 380, 3.25 inch barrel:

Cast lead Lee 120 gr Truncated Cone, 4.6 gr Power Pistol 951 fps.

 

[Erich]

Ah, the illustrious Courtneys.

Yes, they might well be defensive.

Well, as long as we're throwing links up, let me suggest any interested newbies examine what pathologist Col. Martin Fackler (whom we've used as an expert witness) has to say on the subject - since he's seen a few thousand shootings. Here are some starters:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

 

[Spotteddog]

I don't think Kevlar and class III are the answer Mike? More like going through the help wanted section! On the plus side, I do meet an interesting cross section of address less vagabonds. My role I feel is that of housekeeping at a 5 star hotel. It's my job to leave a mint on the cardboard that is their pillow.
Thanks everyone for the opinions and links!
Even if it doesn't change the laws of physics, I always feel better learning and knowing more!

 

[Spotteddog]

I'm thinking the 147's for winter (now). Which will give me time to consider what would be an appropriate weight/type of bullet to use the other 3 seasons. Or if I even need to switch?
Now it's time to make sure they feed and hit at the sights.
Thanks Again fellow Forum members!

 

[flop-shank]

Continue to use what's proven in your gun, by all means. Just remember that heavy clothing is a reason to go to lighter bullets if anything. In my tests, I've found that heavy clothing really doesn't stop bullets in the least. Penetration may be a little shallow by turning a fragmanting bullet into a slower expanding, but ultimately bigger bullet. Usually heavy clothing causes deeper penetration. Velocity is the key to getting clogged bullets to open.

I would find a really good load. Run it year round, then forget about it.

 

[Spotteddog]

Thanks F/S!
I'm at the point where as long as I can duplicate FBI load weight and 4 inch barrel velocity performance, I'll feel OK. The big plus that drove me into the gun to begin with was the 12+1 capacity. Which is 2 1/2 5 shot J frames worth. Not that a 342PD can't be lurking someplace unsuspected too!

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
Let me throw this at you.
How about a bullet that is light in weight
[100gr] hard with a fair flat on the nose and fast.
The speed and the low deformation will get you
penetration the flat will get you damage
and the low weight will get you faster
split times.
Winchester winclean NT 9mm 100gr Jacket tin
flat nose [sc9nt] at 1200fps

 

[Doug M.]

First, it has to work every time in your pistol. Without that, you are not in a good place. After about 1000 malfunction (jam goes on toast) free rounds*, worry about more detailed issues.

Google up Dr. Gary Roberts and his data/recommendations for various calibers. One of my favorites in 9mm is well rated - the Winchester 127gr +P+, the last generation of the Illinois State Police load (which was originally 115gr +P+). ISP reported good results in actual shootings, it has worked well in several 9mm pistols for me**, and Dr. Roberts approves it.

* My duty 1911, a Yam 10-8 on a Springfield, has at least 2K rounds through it. I had 4 malfs with a load he said would likely not work (well, DUH - he knows more than I do), and 1 with standard ball equivalent (Blazer, who cares?) - none with any quality ammo including hundreds of rounds of duty ammo (230gr. Gold Dot).

** Glock 17, with both generations of this load, and a Wilson KZ9 with both generations of this load (and several other loads - no malfs since the magazine redesign; I quit counting after 800+ rounds without cleaning).

 

[safearm]

I carry the 9mm in a semi-auto platform exclusively as a sd round (I also have a S&W J frame in a pocket holster). In the short barrel guns (3-3.5" bbl), I use the 100 grain PowerBall. With all of the variables that can affect a proper shooting grip in a sd scenario, I like the fmj profile for reliable feeding, but with the tested ability to expand. In my full-size guns (4+" bbl), I use Gold Dot 124 grain JHP. It's a reliable round with an excellent track record with NYPD, Denver PD, and others.

 

[Spotteddog]

I thank all the folks continuing to post their opinions on this. Rest assured, they ALL are being read!

 

[38-44HD45]

I just found this thread; thought I'd add a few comments. First, I NEVER carry 147s in a 9x19, and sure wouldn't carry them in a short barrelled one; too slow. The chances of expansion are essentialy zero, and I want expansion. I'd opt for Ranger-T +P+ 127gr or 124gr.+P Gold Dots, or even Cor-Bon 115gr. JHP or Federal 9BPLE 115s. Placement combined with penetration kills; placement combined with shock stops. One does not need heavy bullets in 9x19 to get adequate penetration, but one does need expansion, which requires velocity. If you couldn't tell, I am not a Facklerite!

Just another note: My good friend Erich has worked more shooting cases than most of us will ever hear about. And he's right about the need to place and penetrate, to kill. However, a dead body was not necessarily a STOPPED body, right away. Some yes, some no.

I've shot a fair number of critters, small, medium and a few fairly large. I've seen a cull buck about the size of a large greyhound run 35 yards after its heart and lungs were destroyed by a .30-06 bullet that passed fully through. Every time I've seen an animal literally drop in its tracks, it has been after being shot with a highly energetic round that transmitted lots of shock due to expansion or fragmentation. Texas DPS switched from .45 ACP to .357 Sig, in order to get back to the ballistics that had worked so well for them when they carried .357 magnum revolvers, in part because they did not get immediate incapacitation nearly as often with .45s as they had with .357. All I've spoken to are very pleased with the switch.

 

[justbob]

I run 124 gr. "standard" Gold Dots in my nines year-round because they shoot to POA, function with monotonous reliability, and I like the color of the hollow pointedy thingy that sticks in the silver part of the other thing.

The 124 gr. +Ps are dandy, too, but I prefer the way the standard GDs shoot.

FWIW, I could not tell you how many freezer beef I saw dropped with a single .22 LONG lead bullet to the "imaginary x" (intersection of lines running from eyes to opposite ears).

Bullet placement matters.