sub-moa
US Veteran
The 9mmP was developed specifically so select individuals could make complete fools of themselves on the internet a hundred...and then some, years later 
9mm seems inferior to me. Why?
- Thread starter fallhunter
- Start date
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
What he said. I use it too, and have no desire to change.
All I need.....
I punch holes in paper and the 9mm seems fine for that. My wife is learning to shoot and I believe she can handle a 9mm so it's just fine for me. If I need more I've got my .357.
I punch holes in paper and the 9mm seems fine for that. My wife is learning to shoot and I believe she can handle a 9mm so it's just fine for me. If I need more I've got my .357.
CatSnipah
Member
Right there with you on your 9 mm commentary. That's why I have 45 auto and/or 410 for HD.
Auto's, revolvers, this caliber, that caliber, + P's, JHP's, to me it's what you are comfortable shooting, to be able to hit what you're aiming at...
Some folks use a scope when shooting a rifle..Why? To be better able to place the shots where they aim...Some folks can do it with iron sights.
Some folks here can shoot the eye out of a squirrel at 100 yards with a .22, some folks can't...
From the day that gun powder was invented and made to use in a firearm, they have been killing things, Animals and humans.
Through out history there have been improvements in the guns and with the ammunition for them. But the fact remains, big guns, little guns, super fast bullets, and slow bullets. They both have been able to do the job they were intended to do.
It is true, some folks have been shot and killed with even a BB gun. Some have kept going with several large caliber bullets in them...Even with a shot to the heart, a human will live for...even just a little bit.
I'm sure there are some gun owners here that I wouldn't want to stand in front of at 100 yards, perhaps some others a person might not be able to hit the broad side of a barn standing inside it.
Personally, I have been shot with a .380. No it didn't even come close to hitting any of my vital organs. Did it hurt? It didn't even hurt at the time. It scared both of us more than anything. I knew I had been shot, and he knew he had shot me...The fight was over. I made my arrest, and went to the emergency room for treatment. Yes it throbbed after that for several days. The point I make of this, at that close of range, with a .380, if I had received a torso hit, I may not be here writing this tonight. ANY gun can be a lethal weapon.
If you are intending on shooting another person, you may be able to stop the other with one shot, or it may take several....
If you follow your instructors they will tell you, "What ever it takes, to stop the threat, be it one shot or empty your gun". This will apply be it a .22 or a .454 Casul .
If you believe you can stop a threat with only one bullet, then you can put your mind at ease, and use that caliber of gun to do so.
As others above have posted, their OPINION as to what they believe is the most effective...
I believe only you Fallhunter, can make that decision....Not I.
In my OPINION, the best caliber is the one I won't have to use...ever....
Fallhunter, if you are more comfortable shooting a larger caliber, then I say go for it.
WuzzFuzz
Some folks use a scope when shooting a rifle..Why? To be better able to place the shots where they aim...Some folks can do it with iron sights.
Some folks here can shoot the eye out of a squirrel at 100 yards with a .22, some folks can't...
From the day that gun powder was invented and made to use in a firearm, they have been killing things, Animals and humans.
Through out history there have been improvements in the guns and with the ammunition for them. But the fact remains, big guns, little guns, super fast bullets, and slow bullets. They both have been able to do the job they were intended to do.
It is true, some folks have been shot and killed with even a BB gun. Some have kept going with several large caliber bullets in them...Even with a shot to the heart, a human will live for...even just a little bit.
I'm sure there are some gun owners here that I wouldn't want to stand in front of at 100 yards, perhaps some others a person might not be able to hit the broad side of a barn standing inside it.
Personally, I have been shot with a .380. No it didn't even come close to hitting any of my vital organs. Did it hurt? It didn't even hurt at the time. It scared both of us more than anything. I knew I had been shot, and he knew he had shot me...The fight was over. I made my arrest, and went to the emergency room for treatment. Yes it throbbed after that for several days. The point I make of this, at that close of range, with a .380, if I had received a torso hit, I may not be here writing this tonight. ANY gun can be a lethal weapon.
If you are intending on shooting another person, you may be able to stop the other with one shot, or it may take several....
If you follow your instructors they will tell you, "What ever it takes, to stop the threat, be it one shot or empty your gun". This will apply be it a .22 or a .454 Casul .
If you believe you can stop a threat with only one bullet, then you can put your mind at ease, and use that caliber of gun to do so.
As others above have posted, their OPINION as to what they believe is the most effective...
I believe only you Fallhunter, can make that decision....Not I.
In my OPINION, the best caliber is the one I won't have to use...ever....
Fallhunter, if you are more comfortable shooting a larger caliber, then I say go for it.
WuzzFuzz
CatSnipah
Member
Yes. And since its crappy, you should ship it all to me tomorrow, at your expense, so that I can properly dispose of it for you.
I can give you an address to send, I mean dispose of it to.......
bmcgilvray
Member
I've heard some 'experts' actually tell people a .38 Special is more effective than a 9mm.
9mm - 124gr JHP usually around 1150fps.
.38 Special - 125gr JHP usually 875fps
.
Why do folks pick and choose when they post .38 Special loads to make a point about 9mm? One isn't constrained to use watered-down .38 Special ammunition.
Works both ways.
S&W mod. 60, 2 inch- 1040 fps (379 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66, 2.5 inch- 1059 fps (393 ft. lbs.)
Ruger SP101, 3 inch- 1143 fps (458 ft. lbs.)
S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch- 1162 fps (474 ft. lbs.)
Hmmm... and with a heavier bullet too.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108
http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/144598-some-38-special-chronograph-tests.html
I have to confess that I admire .38 Special performance better than I do the 9mm.
bmcgilvray
Member
The 9mm is roughly a tenth of an inch smaller in diameter than the .45 ACP.
The .25 ACP is roughly a tenth of an inch smaller in diameter than the 9mm.
Hey, they're all mere tenths of inches anyway. Perhaps the .25 ACP's nearly as good as 9mm.
The .25 ACP is roughly a tenth of an inch smaller in diameter than the 9mm.
Hey, they're all mere tenths of inches anyway. Perhaps the .25 ACP's nearly as good as 9mm.
All I know is this........
If sixteen rounds of Win 127 +P+ doesn't stop someone, I shoulda brought a long gun.
Or stayed in bed.
There are many documented cases of all handgun calibers that failed to stop. And the difference in them in negligible.
9, 40, 45, it doesn't matter. Just shoot well. I stopped worrying about caliber long ago.
Stopping Power - YouTube
If sixteen rounds of Win 127 +P+ doesn't stop someone, I shoulda brought a long gun.
Or stayed in bed.
There are many documented cases of all handgun calibers that failed to stop. And the difference in them in negligible.
9, 40, 45, it doesn't matter. Just shoot well. I stopped worrying about caliber long ago.
Stopping Power - YouTube
I might add, in the original post, or by others here after, I didn't notice anything about re-loads of their ammo.
If you do re-load, by using silver of a melted cross instead of lead, and dipping the ends in garlic will not necessarly stop the bad guy.
Blessing your ammo before hand and praying that you hit what you aim for may help, but I doubt it...
I will go a little more to the distance, and that being.....stop watching all of those movies, where the bad guy gets shot and the bullet sends the bad guy back 5 feet. It doesn't happen that way. Nor do they always fall face forward.
Also, I believe "Bigger is Better", only on women!!!! ... Even women will tell you, it's not the size that counts....It's the motion of the ocean....
Other than that..practice, practice, practice...
WuzzFuzz
If you do re-load, by using silver of a melted cross instead of lead, and dipping the ends in garlic will not necessarly stop the bad guy.
Blessing your ammo before hand and praying that you hit what you aim for may help, but I doubt it...
I will go a little more to the distance, and that being.....stop watching all of those movies, where the bad guy gets shot and the bullet sends the bad guy back 5 feet. It doesn't happen that way. Nor do they always fall face forward.
Also, I believe "Bigger is Better", only on women!!!! ... Even women will tell you, it's not the size that counts....It's the motion of the ocean....
Other than that..practice, practice, practice...
WuzzFuzz
CatboatWilly
Member
I carried a 9 mm in the service and never once did I think it would NOT stop my adversary......I bet my life on it.
I think you should shoot what you are comfortable with and staying in control of the weapon.. I got a question from a woman who has a much weaker wrist than a guy, about using a .22 cal. as a home protection weapon.
My answer is yes....if you can stay in control of the weapon.
In my mind..what is the sense of shooting a larger caliber and then having the gun jump out of your trembling hands and not able to able to take the second shot ?
I think this caliber thing is really over blown when it comes down to real life.
Bill
I think you should shoot what you are comfortable with and staying in control of the weapon.. I got a question from a woman who has a much weaker wrist than a guy, about using a .22 cal. as a home protection weapon.
My answer is yes....if you can stay in control of the weapon.
In my mind..what is the sense of shooting a larger caliber and then having the gun jump out of your trembling hands and not able to able to take the second shot ?
I think this caliber thing is really over blown when it comes down to real life.
Bill
kwselke
Member
I'd suspect the suspicion of anything less than .45 in handguns dates back to the Moro Rebellion in the Philippines during the late 19th Century and the Thompson-LaGarde Tests at the Chicago Stock Yards in the early 20th Century. When the US Army declares they will not consider calibers less than .45 for handguns it leaves a lasting impression after multiple wars and millions of servicemen trained.
The deep seated prejudice that developed combined with more recent events such as the 1986 FBI Miami Shootout lead people to think that bigger or faster bullets would have solved the problems in whatever the situation.
Personally, I think anything less than .44 Mag is inferior, but I own a bunch of lesser caliber handguns and will use whatever is at hand when needed.
mkk41
US Veteran
I'm sure ya can make any apples to eggs comparsion , but with equal barrel lengths and equal bullet weights , the 9mm when loaded to original Euro-specs , (not the liability lawyer watered down US-spec stuff) , the 9mm will win every time over the .38 Special , std vel or +P.
Much of the inferiority comes from the fact that for many years , the 9mm Luger was only loaded with the sorta pointy FMJ. Most factory stock 9mm pistols available up till about the 80s were only reliable with the FMJ. The keen eye will notice it's not totally unlike the old standard 158gr LRN , also a notorious non-stopper.
Given modern design JHPs , the 9mm has become very effective. I often carry my Firestar loaded with std.pressure 124gr Nyclads. Some of my other full-size 9s (CZ-75 , Star 30) carry 124gr +P+ Hydra-Shoks.
So has the old .38 Special! My 2in Mod.37 or 3in 36 is usually loaded with Glasers , but my speedloaders carry Nyclads , Hydra-Shoks , Silvertips , or the good ol' 158gr LSWCHP.
Much of the inferiority comes from the fact that for many years , the 9mm Luger was only loaded with the sorta pointy FMJ. Most factory stock 9mm pistols available up till about the 80s were only reliable with the FMJ. The keen eye will notice it's not totally unlike the old standard 158gr LRN , also a notorious non-stopper.
Given modern design JHPs , the 9mm has become very effective. I often carry my Firestar loaded with std.pressure 124gr Nyclads. Some of my other full-size 9s (CZ-75 , Star 30) carry 124gr +P+ Hydra-Shoks.
So has the old .38 Special!
My 2in Mod.37 or 3in 36 is usually loaded with Glasers , but my speedloaders carry Nyclads , Hydra-Shoks , Silvertips , or the good ol' 158gr LSWCHP.
I've heard some 'experts' actually tell people a .38 Special is more effective than a 9mm.
9mm - 124gr JHP usually around 1150fps.
.38 Special - 125gr JHP usually 875fps
.
But the .38 bullet is a teeny-weeny bit bigger in diameter, and bigger holes make all the difference.
You probably have never been hit by one.
jonesy814
Member
I watched a you tube video a while back that had an ER doctor talking about gunshot wound he had seen. He stated that all the handgun wounds from the common calibers of .38 special through .45acp pretty much all looked the same. You couldn't tell by the damage done what caliber was used until the bullet was recovered. He also stated that there was a huge difference between rifle and handgun wounds and that it was pretty easy to tell if a person was shot by a handgun or a rifle due to significantly more damage from a rifle. He did say that by examining the wound area you could tell if the person was shot with the good self defense rounds like gold dots and golden sabers since they tend to cut their way through tissue as opposed to just smashing their way through.
Gyrene6891
US Veteran
For everything out there someone will say it is not a good a _____ ! Different rounds in different configurations do different things. But if you don't hit the BG in a vital spot you pretty much didn't stop the fight. Nut like everything else said here there are exceptions!
mkk41
US Veteran
My former Doctor , who interned at an ER in Philly , saw many gunshot wounds. He was also a member of my gun club and knew his firearms. He told me the most impressive damage he ever saw was from a .45 Glaser Safety Slug. He originally thought it was a .410 shotgun contact wound. He said the ragged 'rathole' was not overly deep , but the trauma and massive tissue damage led to rapid blood loss.
