A day at the range.

[tcc1953]

You are doing the right thing - shooting! No amount of internet research can replace trigger time. Just my opinion...

 

[jmbrowning]

Nice shooting, but I'm sill trying get past standing prone and putting a $200+ trigger on a 22

 

[trebor127]

Nice shooting, but I'm sill trying get past standing prone and putting a $200+ trigger on a 22

that $200 trigger there becomes $336 here in england

but hey ho easy come easy go

keith

 

[tomcatt51]

You are doing the right thing - shooting! No amount of internet research can replace trigger time. Just my opinion...

And you won't improve if you spend that trigger time just repeating the things you're doing now that you could/should be doing better...

 

[tomcatt51]

...I'm sill trying get past...putting a $200+ trigger on a 22

Good triggers do cost money (there's a Geissele trigger in one of my 15-22s) and are NOT 15-22 specific so they can be kept and put in a "real" CF AR...

 

[YeshuaIsa53]

Where were you aiming? Maybe that group would tighten if you were aiming at something smaller every shot. I don't care how you hold the rifle:
just let me know. Move the elevation a few clicks and shoot at a pin head. I'd like to know what they are capable of doing.

That said, nice bunch of bulls-eyes.

 

[Elmerviking]

I understand what you mean Bud Jr. It is much easier to shoot tight groups when you aim at a small area. My first 5-10 shots are much tighter than this 25 group. Next time at the range I will save a 5 group target. I aimed at the middle of the group I shot, which means that I spread 1/2 the group, i.e a less amount of shots would show a group maybe half the size. Still learning though. I consider myself having good trigger control due to my pistol shooting background. Thank you for ll your comments guys!
(Excuse my bad English, I am Swedish married to an American woman and living in Michigan)
Elmerviking

 

[10xatten]

I think you need to lower the target about 1/4 inch

 

[pineappleshooter]

Got me beat, I go for minute-of-soda can at 25 yards with iron sights!

 

[tomcatt51]

It is much easier to shoot tight groups when you aim at a small area.

Yes. If you're shooting just for best group you can adjust your scope so POI is an inch+ from your aiming point so you're not chewing up your aiming point.

Round black "bullseyes" really suck with crosshairs. I used to use targets with a 1" grid. For 100 yds and less I'd blacken 4 one inch "squares". The ones in the corners of a 3" x 3" block. That leaves a nice white "cross" inside the black squares that's easy to see and center the scopes' crosshairs in.

 

[KJG67]

Elmer - get the irons back on there or pick up the Magpul ones, find 2-4 10 round short mags, get a GI sling, and see if there's a Appleseed Project event in your area. You don't need that scope and handle. You can easily do that same shooting and much farther with irons on the 15-22.

Appleseed will teach you the rifle marksmanship fundamentals you need to learn (as a Bullseye shooter, you can appreciate that), and it's a lot of fun. You'll take the Army Marksmanship Qual test at the end of Day 2, and you'll be amazed what that 15-22, or any quality 22lr can do! Google Appleseed Project - you'll find great reviews out there from amateurs and pros alike.

 

[tomcatt51]

you'll be amazed what that 15-22...can do!

What amazing group sizes are you getting with a 15-22?
Group size, number of shots and distance.

 

[Rob1]

Guys. I don't think this group size photo range thing is ever gonna give anyone a concise answer. With or without pics there is and I think always will be someone who does not agree/ believe or concur with what is said. ElmerV was tough on my shoot along with others. And here the same debate goes on with his large group at his choice of range and optic etc.

I will say this. I can do what I can do. ElmerV can do what he can do. Everyone else will do what they can do and each will have a different reason for the way their 15-22 performs with or with out optics/irons/grips/rests and any other modification they choose to spend money on.

TO EACH HIS OWN. Surely the common theme is that we should ALL keep shooting and enjoying what we do. Wherever we get to do it.

Rob1

 

[KJG67]

Well Tom, I'm a lurker here and this thread just caught my eye. Putting rounds inside the X ring at 25 meters with irons I think is more than reasonable with CCI Standard Velocity ammo.

As Rob1 said, we'll each do our best and hopefully have fun. Elmer did great! Any of us would be happy shooting his grouping. My point was as a new rifle shooter and a pistol bulls eye shooter, I'm willing to bet he understands learning the fundamentals correctly makes or breaks a shooter. He can learn it on his own, he can do Appleseed, he not do anything - doesn't matter to me. More than one person who thought they were a good shot was humbled at Appleseed, but walked away better than when they started.

He doesn't need a scope on a 15-22 to shoot that group at 25 yards was my point. Too many people want to put all sorts of gadgets, triggers, etc, on their rifles thinking it will magically make them accurate without understanding the fundamentals of shooting, but then they wouldn't know what to do if their scope and all the gadgets broke. Call me old school - learn on your irons first.

 

[tomcatt51]

Elmer did great! Any of us would be happy shooting his grouping. My point was as a new rifle shooter and a pistol bulls eye shooter, I'm willing to bet he understands learning the fundamentals correctly makes or breaks a shooter. He can learn it on his own, he can do Appleseed, he not do anything - doesn't matter to me. More than one person who thought they were a good shot was humbled at Appleseed, but walked away better than when they started.

He doesn't need a scope on a 15-22 to shoot that group at 25 yards was my point.

No a scope isn't required if your vision is good enough.

Elmers group was fine and he actually knew the distance he shot it at. He also asked how he could improve his groups and that's where I thought the discussion was going before being drifted.

I assumed a reasonably competent bullseye shooter would understand sight picture and trigger control but bench rest shooting has other technical things that also come into play.

As to irons or optics, we aren't all 20 yrs old. Many of us have "old eyes" and optics (or new lenses but my cataracts aren't bad enough to quailfy for them, yet) are what lets us still be competitive.

So what did you think were amazing groups you were shooting or seeing shot with a 15-22? You made the statement.

 

[Elmerviking]

Tomcat and others..
As I said earlier I am now 69 years old. My eye vision is no longer what it used to be, that's why I got the scope. I am still pretty steady compared to other guys my age. Pistol shooting is a VERY different technic than rifle shooting. As a bulls eye shooter you aim below the black on the target, shoot one handed etc. I have been shooting my 15-22 for around one month...never shot a rifle before that. I wanted opinions how to improve my shooting...what technic to use and so on. I also would like to see what you guys consider beeing a really good 25 shot group at 25 yards. I still highly doubt that you can shoot a 1/4-1/2 inch group at 70-80 yards measuring from outside to outside (all shots inside a circle 1/4-1/2 inch).
I believe you need a top of the line match rifle and a world champion to even come close to that. So Rob1: show me your 25 shot groups at 25 yard, which should be 1/3 of your 75 yards grouping!
If you can do that, I will fall down on my knees and with tear in my eyes ask you to forgive me being so tough on you.
/Elmer

 

[tomcatt51]

I thought your group was good, 'specially considering it was a 25 rd group rested as you described. There were things that could have been done better, that's what I tried to help with.

I got 1 1/8" (center to center) 10 shot groups at 50 M with CCI Tactical ammo and a less than best target and rest. I'm going to go back with a better target (see post #30) and a better rest and some different ammo to try. Just curious as my 15-22s are primarily for Ruger Rimfire Challenge, but, with a scope (1-4X on another riser to slide on) rather than a C-more with a 16 minute dot, make a fun plinker.

My two uppers are set up the same so I have a match back-up but my other lower will probably get a 2 stage Geissele trigger vs the Super Dynamic 3 Gun Trigger the one I've been shooting has.

 

[YeshuaIsa53]

Curiosity fueled the question of what these guns are capable of doing. Elmerviking looks like a good enough shooter to find out with a 4x scope, and it's good to hear from others what they are doing to get better shot groups. I do not own an M&P 15-22 or I would not have asked. I do know shooting bullseyes with a pistol is a bit of a different mindset. Only trying to share and help, and hopefully find out what I'm so curious about. That was a great post about the minute-of-sodacan, and we all like to have fun. I'd like to know how accurate these are compared to say the ISSC MK22. Most folk are just having fun, but I have to be curious. If I had the money, I'd buy one and test it myself.
Happy shooting, everyone.

 

[Rob1]

Tomcat and others..
As I said earlier I am now 69 years old. My eye vision is no longer what it used to be, that's why I got the scope. I am still pretty steady compared to other guys my age. Pistol shooting is a VERY different technic than rifle shooting. As a bulls eye shooter you aim below the black on the target, shoot one handed etc. I have been shooting my 15-22 for around one month...never shot a rifle before that. I wanted opinions how to improve my shooting...what technic to use and so on. I also would like to see what you guys consider beeing a really good 25 shot group at 25 yards. I still highly doubt that you can shoot a 1/4-1/2 inch group at 70-80 yards measuring from outside to outside (all shots inside a circle 1/4-1/2 inch).
I believe you need a top of the line match rifle and a world champion to even come close to that. So Rob1: show me your 25 shot groups at 25 yard, which should be 1/3 of your 75 yards grouping!
If you can do that, I will fall down on my knees and with tear in my eyes ask you to forgive me being so tough on you.
/Elmer

Was actually saying well done for your group even though, once again, the comments and debate was getting heated. ( if you read the post).

However it seems that what ever I say it will be misinterpreted. I don't shoot 25rd "groups" cos that doesn't show much more than a large hole.

If you want to try something different try 5 x 5 round groups. On same target. That way you can work on individual shot placement and not creating a "hole" to punch through.

That may help with what you are trying to improve on just a thought for what it's worth.

As I said in previous post. I AM NOT A CRITIC!! However I also don't spoil for arguments either.

I enjoy shooting. Maybe my style is different from yours, years of military training I guess means for me that individual shot placement is what I find important,but shooting non the less.

So it's up to you if you want to take the pat on the back or not! At this point now I really don't care any more.

So ElmerV, Tomcat and all you other guys keep shooting, keep enjoying and if you want to argue away till the world ends about how good or bad you think things are. I will leave it to you.

Once I post my final build pics I shall withdraw from the site cos I just can't be doing with the constant battle over other peoples over powering desire to wanna fight about who is right and who is wrong.

I have found some brilliant help and advice here but also waaaay to many who just wanna go over board and over argue their own point.

That's me and that's my opinion.

Thanks to all who have been positive with help and comments.

Best of luck with all future endeavours.

Rob1 (Mark).

 

[Majorlk]

I still highly doubt that you can shoot a 1/4-1/2 inch group at 70-80 yards measuring from outside to outside (all shots inside a circle 1/4-1/2 inch).
I believe you need a top of the line match rifle and a world champion to even come close to that.

My Ruger 77-22 will shoot 1 MOA (or a little less) all day with match ammo. It's stock except for having a 2 lb match trigger.

So Rob1: show me your 25 shot groups at 25 yard, which should be 1/3 of your 75 yards grouping!

25 round groups, at any distance, are useless. The standard is generally a 10-round group and even those can result in one ragged hole. a 5-round group is more indicative of actual, repeatable accuracy.

Elmer, just because YOU can't do it, doesn't mean other shooters can't either.