A Victory Frankfurter

[red9]

I just picked up a .38 Special Victory, 4", U.S. Property on the top strap #V485758. Left side is stamped/engraved "RAILWAY POLICE." I am not usually a collector of Victory models, but I have a vague recollection of 5" .38S&Ws marked "BAHNPOLIZEI." Is this a British/US zone variation or a senior moment(unfortunately, it wouldn't be my first)? Lanyard loop missing due to Goodyears it was wearing at time of purchase.

Bob

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Howdy red9,

Frankfurt was in the American sector after WW II, so I believe it makes sense that your Victory would be a 4" .38 Special without British marks.

The "/M" after the city name means "am Main" or "on the Main River."

I'm sure the "BP" stamp equates to your memory of "BAHNPOLIZEI."

I'd guess S&W shipped yours early in 1944.

Absalom will be along to fix anything I've broken here.

 

[Absalom]

From what I've been able to find, from 1946 to 1951 the arms of the Bahnpolizei in the three Western zones were uniformly American, M1 carbines, 1911 pistols, and both 4" and 5" Victorys.

I know of a 4" gun marked Stuttgart, and now this one marked Frankfurt, in the American zone. However, Charles Pate also lists Frankfurt and Augsburg as recorded on 5" British Service variants.

The fact that trains crossed sector boundaries all the time and the rail network was one structure likely was the reason that the Bahnpolizei also didn't conform to those.

 

[murphydog]

Hot dog!

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Cool gun!

 

[jpage]

I own a 5" Stuttgart, (WB-S-STG) on backstrap.

 

[tenntex32]

A really interesting Victory.....which most likely has a story or two to tell.

It looks as though the original barrel end style extractor rod was replaced with a later knurled end style extractor rod.

Aside from the missing lanyard loop (and original stocks) are there any other anomalies (possibly s/n wise) that you have noticed?

Dale

P.S. I need to add a foreign use 4" marked .38spl Victory to the "accumulation"!

 

[dpast32]

Hello Guys, IIRC, the 'RP' Stamp on the Left Frame indicates 'Rheinland Pfalz', if I'm correct ? I have an similar stamp on my 1963 proofed West German Polizei issue Walther PP. It refers to the 'Lander' or State in which it was authorized to.

Best, dpast32

 

[Absalom]

Hello Guys, IIRC, the 'RP' Stamp on the Left Frame indicates 'Rheinland Pfalz', if I'm correct ? I have an similar stamp on my 1963 proofed West German Polizei issue Walther PP. It refers to the 'Lander' or State in which it was authorized to.

Sorry, no.

Rheinland-Pfalz marked their pistols with an RP (not BP) inside a circle, like on your Walther PP, but those stamps were applied to all pistols in inventory, including retroactively, much later, after a German federal law from 1968 required all guns in public service to be so marked. These revolvers were long off duty by then.

 

[budhall]

Interesting thread....I've got a 5" Victory in .38 S&W Ctg. It's stamped "Bavaria Municiple Police" on the left side of the frame under the cylinder latch; no other foreign markings that I've noticed.

 

[Absalom]

I own a 5" Stuttgart, (WB-S-STG) on backstrap.

...I've got a 5" Victory in .38 S&W Ctg. It's stamped "Bavaria Municiple Police" ....

Both these BSRs were US-assigned to German city police forces. For reasons unexplained, US occupation authorities supplied Victory revolvers in both versions (4" US and 5" Brit.) to German police in their zone. The pattern is random; likely it just depended on what was available in the supply chain.

 

[dpast32]

Oops, SORRY !! I Apparently misread the stamp as RP, not as it is BP. I was in hurry though, so for that but if misinformation, I apologize.

Best, dpast32

 

[Waveski]

What effect do these post war assignment markings have on value?
For me personally , my interest would be enhanced , but open market value?

 

[Absalom]

What effect do these post war assignment markings have on value?
For me personally , my interest would be enhanced , but open market value?

This is part of the "history vs. original condition" discussion among collectors that's always ongoing. On Victorys in general, history has a stronger pull since nobody buys a Victory for pristine beauty to begin with

Market-wise, the German occupation marked guns are a niche market, so it depends on the collector. It's like with other police markings.

To give you an example, some years ago a member here put a nice Bavaria Police Victory up for sale. Now I would have happily paid his original asking price if I had gotten a chance to notice his WTS post. But he got impatient too fast, and started dumping his price within a few days until someone snapped it up a few hundred below what I considered it worth. I came across the post some hours after it sold. Too bad, we both lost out. As I said, a niche market.

 

[Beemerguy53]

...nobody buys a Victory for pristine beauty to begin with .

I respectfully beg to differ...

 

[two-bit cowboy]

... nobody buys a Victory for pristine beauty to begin with

Well, that doesn't allow for the idiosyncrasies within a few of us.

I did. I wanted a Victory, and at that time I did not appreciate a S&W revolver with "character." I'm happy to say I've since repaired my thinking on that last part.

Anyway, I bought what I hoped would be a 1943-shipped Victory. It didn't fight any battles, not even after it was in "service" with the Bavarian Police in "SK Fürth Mun".

I was stationed in Germany twice, and I really liked Fürth so it was my connection to the town and region that drew me to the pristine Victory, too. I paid $750 at a time when other nice Victories could be had for $500. It's condition certainly tipped my scale, but the real draw was the postwar Germany connection.

Turns out the Victory shipped on December 15, 1943, a perfect example to mate with my other 1943 memorabilia: steel pennies, silver nickels, Boyt WW II holster, and Wyo license plate.

 

[Absalom]

Well, yes, but to the conventional collector the Victorys are ugly even when they're pristine

I think I've told the story before of the guy who sold me a nice original decent-condition Victory for a low price, that he had advertised as an "old M&P with the blue finish all worn off" ....

 

[two-bit cowboy]

I recall some cliché about "beauty" and "eye of the beholder" (thank you, Margaret Wolfe Hungerford in her 1878 novel Molly Bawn).

 

[Wiregrassguy]

I think they are ruggedly handsome...sorta like me.

 

[rayb]

scratched Victory

Here's one that was made into a presentation piece.
Metal and wood both had some work on them.

 

[red9]

Chris (ctg4570) was offended by the incorrect ejector rod, so he graciously provided me with a correct one. Thank you Chris.

Bob