Advantages of 40 vs. 45 ACP?

[Wolf1775]

.40 has higher mag capacity and better intermediate barrier penetration with most loads.

Actual felt recoil during defensive shootings will likely be negligible. During competition it'd depend on too many variables to give a blanket statement.

Terminal ballistics in handgun rounds are all comparable, and the advantages/differences are small.

 

[Peakes]

Place em center mass, and the subject on the receiving end will have little debate on either! Have both, and feel safe with either holstered up.. I do like the 45 simply because I seem to shoot it better..Shot placement and bullet selection way more important than caliber.

 

[sodacan]

This is like the 41 mag 44 mag debate.
Good points -41 is more powerful than 357 and kicks less than a 44.
Bad points-41 kicks more than the 357 and isn't as powerful as the 44!
No need for the 40s&w or the 41 mag.

+1 for this. Also, I don't care what the numbers say because nothing beats a slow, fat, heavy bullet to put a bad guy on his back porch. If you're that sensitive to recoil from a "standard" defensive pistol round, maybe you should find a new line of work or spend more time on the range.

 

[brentb636]

I can't see why people complain about recoil of the .45 ACP round. I'm just a little guy and I have no trouble shooting it. Especially in an autopistol where much of the recoil is absorbed by the springs.

I complain about the recoil of the .40 cal. I much prefer shooting the 45 ACP in my CS45 or 4513TSW . When I had a .40 ( or two) only the 180gr ammo was palatable . Give me the big bullet, obsolete or not .

Brent

 

[Joe A.]

I carry a 9mm in the pocket and a 45 iwb. Best of both worlds.

 

[Maximumbob54]

The partially unsupported chamber is a contributor to the problem. Brand new factory loads have blown them apart as well, not just reloads. The pressures in the S&W .40cal are very high.

I see this all the time. The .40SW and the 9mm are the same 35,000 psi rating.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

And even a grazing shot with a .50 BMG won't either!

I know a dude here in town who took two 12.7s. He managed to get his FAC plane down.
All the doctors kept saying that he was not supposed to be alive.
He was hospitalized for over a year.

 

[twin40fives]

To all the naysayers of either caliber, would you prefer to be on the receiving end of one versus the other? Why take the chance? Shoot em if you got em.

 

[jwk]

A 40 is a compromise between capacity and bullet diameter. There is nothing wrong with that but if I want capacity, I use a 9MM. If I want a big hole in something, I use a .45 ACP in a 1911 platform. Those are my preferences and that might be based upon the fact that before the 40 was invented, I was already shooting Browning Hi-Powers and 1911s. That said if I could only own one handgun that had to do everything (target shoot, carry and home defense) I might pick a .40.

 

[rwsmith]

It's been tried.....

The 10mm has been tried and found to be too big with too much recoil and the .45 is even a little bigger and a lot of people can't readily handle it well, either. It seems that the biggest gun and round that MOST AGENTS CAN HANDLE is the .40 so unless they come up with another 'in between' caliber to try (I don't doubt that this can and probably will happen) it's the end of the road unless they want to intensively train people to be able to carry tougher weapons.

I made the point on another thread that LEOs and armed agents won't benefit from bigger handguns as much as they would having ready access to heavier weapons, in particular, rifles.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/398218-my-rundown-miami-shootout.html

 

[yeti]

40S&W is favored for competition because it can be reloaded to make both major PF and minor PF from the same pistol, plus capacity is decent.

40S&W is a capable and versatile caliber that borrows benefits from both the 9mm and 45acp. The best of both worlds? I don't know about that, but IMHO it has excellent performance & flexibility...especially when handloaded.

 

[Boox]

Wow, a five year old caliber war thread, and just for S's & Giggles I would state that it will never be resolved. There is, to my knowledge no remarks from any paper, cardboard, plywood, steel, tin can, foam ball, pig , cow horse , deer, or human targets to dissuade anyone from thinking their chosen cartridge is the "BEST".
Without such information I would propose that any anecdotal evidence, put forth without supporting evidence as to the actual lethality of any aforementioned round is supposition and subject to interpretation by anyone. JMHO

Me, right now I like the 45GAP, unless I'm carrying my 3913, or my BHP, or my 4506, or my .586. YMMV

 

[yeti]

This argument will go on for another 5 years...easy.

 

[KSDeputy]

There is none, I only own .45's. If you hit what you are aiming at, you don't need a huge magazine capacity. With a .45 you have a much better chance of making a one shot stop. My sheriff's office changed to the .40 caliber after I retired. They hired a lot of female deputies, who have smaller hands. I think female deputies are great, we had some when I was working. They handled the .45 caliber 645 & 4506 that we had, and did it well. I think the change to .40 caliber makes it easier on them, and I am all for that. With the .40 caliber they need a larger magazine capacity, because one shot stops are quite rare with that caliber. What I do disagree with is they went to Glock handguns. I have never fired a Glock and have no wish to, I like Smith & Wesson products. We had them from back when we had .38 special revolvers, then .357, and changed to the 645 and later the 4506.

 

[Cal44]

Here is another link with supporting data.

http://www.neiassociates.org/caliber.htm

The 357 magnum, 9mm, 45 and 40 are all 90+% on one stop shots.

The .40 is the winner but only by a tiny percentage.

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with carrying a nice compact 9mm or 40 as both have decent stopping power and more capacity than a typical 45.

The above is a really old post, and the link the poster included no longer works.

But I found the following article on the same site:

NEIA Associates - Selecting Duty Weapon

As most of these articles usually conclude, 9mm, 40, 357, and 45 are about equally effective.

But the interesting thing to me is the comparison in "stopping power" (as defined in this article) between 380acp and 38 special from a 2" revolver shows the 380acp to be slightly superior.

Now from a 4" revolver, 38 special is quite a bit better.

This is interesting. I suspect that, in real use, many of the SD bullets just don't achieve enough velocity from a 2" revolver to expand much (or any).

Perhaps this is a vote in favor of the 380 mouse guns for pocket carry.

On the other hand, this article is several years old and maybe some of the new "short barrel" 38 special rounds do better than the ammo available back then.

Dave

 

[sharp40]

recoil on the 10 semi auto vs 40 & 45

The thread on 10 mm vs the 45 for agents I have a colt gov 10 love it my son has the 45 The FBI I think ordered the 10 for more smack over the 40 but the thought process is be lighter than the 45 when in reality the 10 had a hard racking system because of the double recoil spring vs the single spring in both other models my son would be a better suitor for this but because he is in law enforcement and because of his position he will not respond most of the 10 mm carriers on the force has changed back to the 40 because of the qualifying issues with weight and racking of the 10. Past that don't have a mp 45 in the collection any thoughts would be appreciated please bare in mind I only have one arm.

 

[Barrie]

I will take a 45APC over most anything else for the stopping power. Especially if my shot is accurate. I do my own reloading and a 225 grain bullet will do the job with 5.5 grains of powder. One or two of them should stop any attacker in his tracks very quickly.

 

[gen3guy]

I consider the 40 S&W a 9x19 Plus. The bullet diameter has been increased from 9 mm to 10 mm. Nothing to get excited about.

I shoot 9x19 in practice and competition for its economic ammo availability, no need to reload.

I shoot 45 ACP in competition because of Major scoring and the challenge.

I do not shoot 40 S&W, because it is just a 9x19 with a bigger ego.

The Square Cube Law. An 11% increase in bullet diameter yields a 56% increase in mass. Between the 9 and the .40 the muzzle energy increases by about 50 foot pounds. Still not nearly as good as the .45 but the inflated ego is not entirely unjustified.

 

[Old cop]

Back in the '80s my agency transitioned to the Glock 19, but after a couple of officer involved shootings the 9mm was coming up short w/respect to stopping the bad guy. We decided on the Model 23 b/c Glock offered us an even swap, no need to buy new holsters and mag carriers, women could handle the size of the Glock 23 better, and the .40 was supposed to be a better stopper than the forty-five.

Our SWAT guys pushed hard for the .45 but were on board w/the .40 after handling them, plus real world street performance. I've been retired since 1997 and still have my Gen II Glock 23, which was retired w/me, and it still runs great.

 

[Shorty 45 MK2]

One more time! But don't hurry I need more popcorn!

Don't really care one way of the other. Both will work if you do your job.