I have bought a few revolvers during this era for a collection. I only go by the condition looking new. My question is can a gunsmith examine a revolver and tell if it has been shot outside the factory? In my opinion you put a box of ammo thru it at the range and clean it I can't see how you could tell. What say you?
Advertised ANIB Appears Unfired ???
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Sure a crook could do it. Shoot it a box, clean it up completely then shoot it enough for the test fire pattern. I was at a gun show this weekend and it seems every gun with a box was being sold as "I don't believe it's ever been fired". I even saw a rifle that had a scope, bases and rings added being sold as "set up, but never shot".
1911haulic
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I have bought "never been fired", I solved that problem. 
I'm a skeptic. Seems there are more "as new in the box" revolvers for sale now than I ever recall. Road apples!
Ignorance breeds liars.
Most of the sellers I've asked about their "never fired" claim don't know S&W shot three rounds though every model I'm interested in, age-wise.
I'm probably going to shoot it so I don't care if it's not an after-factory virgin.
Can a gun smith tell? Hopefully some of our "smiths" will chime in.
Ignorance breeds liars.
Most of the sellers I've asked about their "never fired" claim don't know S&W shot three rounds though every model I'm interested in, age-wise.
I'm probably going to shoot it so I don't care if it's not an after-factory virgin.
Can a gun smith tell? Hopefully some of our "smiths" will chime in.
Exactly! For me personally if advertised unfired as new it better look like new. That's what I go by and it rules out the guns that are scuffed up. I'm sure some of my revolvers have never been fired and some that were advertised as unfired were. As long as they look new that's good for me. Still curious if a expert gunsmith can look at a firearm and tell?
THE PILGRIM
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So I go down to this guys house and look at his Beretta 21A's he has for sale.
One is his, been fired.
The other was his Ex-Wife's, unfired.
We couldn't tell which was which!
I didn't want to buy the EX Gun.
Bad Karma! I did buy one, not sure which one.
And it's temperamental to say the least.
I might have bought the Ex Wife Gun!
If a Revolver has only been shot a few shots beyond the Factory and thoroughly cleaned, the FBI Crime Lab Will trouble determining how many rounds.
One is his, been fired.
The other was his Ex-Wife's, unfired.
We couldn't tell which was which!
I didn't want to buy the EX Gun.
Bad Karma! I did buy one, not sure which one.
And it's temperamental to say the least.
I might have bought the Ex Wife Gun!
If a Revolver has only been shot a few shots beyond the Factory and thoroughly cleaned, the FBI Crime Lab Will trouble determining how many rounds.
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The obvious place to look is above the forcing cone under the top strap.Just because the three charge holes had the burn rings cleaned off doesn't mean it was fired.People my age are from an era when powder was corrosive.No one I knew that was buying something to hold onto stored it in their safe with out a thorough cleaning and oiling.
PauldL
Member
Well, if a gun that old looks like anib- then obviously it's been very well taken care of.
I mean, if your out using and firing that revolver, your gonna wind up scratching it up to some degree.
I dunno. Who really knows except the original owner?
At any rate, IF it's just absolutely pristine/mint condition- shouldn't it deserve at least a little consideration that it hasn't been fired outside the factory?
I'm talking about absolutely beautiful - no scratches whatsoever condition.
Seems to me like it would deserve some consideration that it hasn't been fired outside the factory.
I mean, if your out using and firing that revolver, your gonna wind up scratching it up to some degree.
I dunno. Who really knows except the original owner?
At any rate, IF it's just absolutely pristine/mint condition- shouldn't it deserve at least a little consideration that it hasn't been fired outside the factory?
I'm talking about absolutely beautiful - no scratches whatsoever condition.
Seems to me like it would deserve some consideration that it hasn't been fired outside the factory.
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PauldL
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Pef
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It's nearly impossible to tell. I had a 28-2 that I purchased years ago that appeared unfired. It came with box and dox. Not even a turn line. I recently sold it because I had purchased another 28-2 that I use as a "shooter."
I had not shot the 28-2 when I sold it. In the listing I wrote "I've never shot it. If it's been fired, it hasn't been fired much." And I did tell the buyer "it looks unfired, but of course, I don't know for sure."
He bought the gun and was going to put it away in his safe as a safe queen. We both went away satisfied with the deal.
I had not shot the 28-2 when I sold it. In the listing I wrote "I've never shot it. If it's been fired, it hasn't been fired much." And I did tell the buyer "it looks unfired, but of course, I don't know for sure."
He bought the gun and was going to put it away in his safe as a safe queen. We both went away satisfied with the deal.
Pef
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Just a side detour - I have found that many people selling guns on forums (not here) have no idea about how to accurately describe the condition of a gun. I've seen guns in "Good" condition (wear marks, swapped grips, etc., your run of the mill "Used but not abused" gun) listed as "Excellent." So much for the long streak of holster wear on the muzzle....
My favorite, however is "LNIB." "Like new in box." Okay. So it's not new. So what is it?
I usually let the picture of the firearm speak for itself.
My favorite, however is "LNIB." "Like new in box." Okay. So it's not new. So what is it?
I usually let the picture of the firearm speak for itself.
If the gun remains in pristine condition, truly looks new, I don't mind if a few rounds have gone down the tube. I also don't mind a turn line on a Smith.
I also don't get too twisted up if the box and docs are absent. It's all about the condition of the gun.
That said, I've seen guns at gun shops, which I knew for a fact were ordered in by the dealer, directly from his distributor, for his new inventory, which had gone through so much handling after they arrived, that they had picked up all sorts of marks. NIB guns that I wanted nothing to do with.
One exception: A very well priced Colt NF .45 which was perfect aside from a scratch on the ejector tube. $20 for a new one, corrected that issue.
I also don't get too twisted up if the box and docs are absent. It's all about the condition of the gun.
That said, I've seen guns at gun shops, which I knew for a fact were ordered in by the dealer, directly from his distributor, for his new inventory, which had gone through so much handling after they arrived, that they had picked up all sorts of marks. NIB guns that I wanted nothing to do with.
One exception: A very well priced Colt NF .45 which was perfect aside from a scratch on the ejector tube. $20 for a new one, corrected that issue.
There are probably hundreds of thousands of what we call "sock drawer guns"...... guns bought, loaded and stuck in their sock drawer; "just in case". When they pass, their heirs find the gun and a box of ammo with 44 rounds still in it.
Lots of heirs .... take them to a local gunshop and sell them for pennies on the dollar.
Prior to the 1968 Gun Control Act that changed the law a lot of folks would bring in guns they found cleaning out the parents house to the Police Station.... with "I don't want this!!" Next roll call "anyone want this _________?" Dad brought home a number of guns ranging from a Colt Model 1917 .45acp, to Steven Favorite.22 rifles and a "collection" of .25 pocket Colts.
Lots of heirs .... take them to a local gunshop and sell them for pennies on the dollar.
Prior to the 1968 Gun Control Act that changed the law a lot of folks would bring in guns they found cleaning out the parents house to the Police Station.... with "I don't want this!!" Next roll call "anyone want this _________?" Dad brought home a number of guns ranging from a Colt Model 1917 .45acp, to Steven Favorite.22 rifles and a "collection" of .25 pocket Colts.
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"Unfired" is a useless term. I've seen guns that I'm sure were not shot outside the factory, but were severely degraded by poor storage or excessive handling. We had a guy bring his collection of Winchester commemorative 94's to one of our shows a few years back. I'm sure he never shot them, but he stored them in their boxes in his attic for decades and every one was trashed.
The bottom line is condition and even the "experts" can be fooled. There was a story in the American Rifleman about an old Marlin lever gun that won an award for best of show. I'm pretty sure Doug Turnbull was one of the judges. After the show he did some digging and found that he had restored the gun years earlier for a previous owner. I think they retracted the award.
The bottom line is condition and even the "experts" can be fooled. There was a story in the American Rifleman about an old Marlin lever gun that won an award for best of show. I'm pretty sure Doug Turnbull was one of the judges. After the show he did some digging and found that he had restored the gun years earlier for a previous owner. I think they retracted the award.
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Buy the gun, not the story!
jcelect
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This^^^^^ is the bottom line!
Roger Kipwell
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I know a lot of guys who bought guns thinking that they wanted a Nine or an Ay-arrh and then never took them shooting. When my brother passed away I know that his collection of three pistols had never been fired.
I have a Remington 870 in 20 ga that has never been fired. I also have a combloc pistol in 9x18 that has never been fired.
Some folks may be lying but there are many unfired guns out there.
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It matters not to me. I'm not willing to pay for unfired guns. I like them in nice condition but a little honest wear looks good to me. I'm more interested in how accurate it is.
racoonbeast
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I will echo that it would be very difficult to tell if a revolver has had three shots through it from the factory, or three plus six from the owner firing his new gun. Checking the area from the top of the barrel to the bottom of the top strap, as has been mentioned, is my first place to look. Fronts of cylinders can be cleaned off. That area is a little harder to get to and it does not take much firing to start flame scorching it a little and leaving a mark that can not be removed.
The thing that concerns me more than whether or not a gun has been fired is how much it has been played with. I have run into a number of guns that were advertised as "unfired" or "as new" that actually were fired very little, if at all. But, they were all but worn out from the cylinder being flopped open and slammed shut and/or ten million dry fires. I always check the back face of the recoil shield to see how much and what kind of wear there is there. I do a careful check of all functions to see if they are crisp and tight. I cock the hammer and see if I can "push it off". I drag my finger on the cylinder while I rotate it to lock up to make sure that it will without a push. Of course you want to check for cylinder end-shake (there should be none) or side to side cylinder wiggle (there will probably be a little, but not much) The "drag line" on the cylinder will give you a hint as well. They all have one. Well used ones have very pronounced ones. Actual new guns have little or no drag line.
I consider a new gun one that has just come from the distributor and is facing its first sale at the LGS. Someone might have a gun that he has bought from the LGS and put in his safe. But, that ain't a "new" gun anymore. I could consider it "like new" if everything else adds up. "New" commands listed retail price. "Like New" commands something less. It is up to you and the seller to figure out how much less that is.
The thing that concerns me more than whether or not a gun has been fired is how much it has been played with. I have run into a number of guns that were advertised as "unfired" or "as new" that actually were fired very little, if at all. But, they were all but worn out from the cylinder being flopped open and slammed shut and/or ten million dry fires. I always check the back face of the recoil shield to see how much and what kind of wear there is there. I do a careful check of all functions to see if they are crisp and tight. I cock the hammer and see if I can "push it off". I drag my finger on the cylinder while I rotate it to lock up to make sure that it will without a push. Of course you want to check for cylinder end-shake (there should be none) or side to side cylinder wiggle (there will probably be a little, but not much) The "drag line" on the cylinder will give you a hint as well. They all have one. Well used ones have very pronounced ones. Actual new guns have little or no drag line.
I consider a new gun one that has just come from the distributor and is facing its first sale at the LGS. Someone might have a gun that he has bought from the LGS and put in his safe. But, that ain't a "new" gun anymore. I could consider it "like new" if everything else adds up. "New" commands listed retail price. "Like New" commands something less. It is up to you and the seller to figure out how much less that is.
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If I purchased the gun new and never fired it, I would note that I am the original owner and factory fired only.
As others have stated, just because it has not been fired after it left the factory does not mean it is a flawless perfect gun. Ask anyone who has looked at 1911's that a newbie cleaned and scratched when reassembling.
The condition of the gun tells the story. Looking at the recoil shield, the area above the forcing cone, all visible screws, grips, backstrap and full function check tell the whole story.
Improper storage, handling and cleaning have probably been responsible for more value loss than the amount of firing.
Probably just restating what has already been said, but my .02.
As others have stated, just because it has not been fired after it left the factory does not mean it is a flawless perfect gun. Ask anyone who has looked at 1911's that a newbie cleaned and scratched when reassembling.
The condition of the gun tells the story. Looking at the recoil shield, the area above the forcing cone, all visible screws, grips, backstrap and full function check tell the whole story.
Improper storage, handling and cleaning have probably been responsible for more value loss than the amount of firing.
Probably just restating what has already been said, but my .02.
Thanks for all the info. I'm 66 years old and have owned firearms since I was 12 years old, but I am far from a expert when it comes to guns. I appreciate the replies. My recent S & W magnum collection is what got me thinking. I am happy with all purchase from gunbroker. They are all as new but do have a faint drag line. I can live with that!
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