ALWAYS COUNT - IT BECOMES INSTINCT AFTER A WHILE

[chief38]

My Dad taught me to count rounds fired since I was 11 years old when I was shooting my first rifle (I still have it BTW). There are a bunch of reasons for this but the most important obviously is so you don't pull the trigger in a gun fight on an expended round (revolver) or empty chamber on a semi auto. You would be surprised how many times I see a shooter pull the trigger on a pistol with the slide in the rearward locked open position and on an expended case! BTW, there are some semi auto's that the slide does not lock back after the last round is fired and yet there is no guarantee that it will even if designed to do so. It also helps greatly if you train yourself to drop the inserted magazine and reload a fresh one WHILE there is STILL a round in the chamber on an auto loading pistol. Doing so will not require you to have to rack the slide to jack a round in the chamber because it is already there - time saver!

I can not shoot any gun without counting how many shots I fire - it has become ingrained in my pistol shooting habits. When I bring someone to the range that I am teaching, I count their shots as well - just habit. BTW, this procedure also helps to avoid dropping the hammer on a 22 rimfire that should not be fired without ammunition - that is hard on the firing pin and can disrupt the metal of the gun when the firing pin hits it (metal on metal).

It is much harder to have seasoned shooters learn this little technique, but much easier if a new shooter has not shot much. So if you are teaching a newbie to shoot, it is better to start them off in this manner if you agree with what I am posting here. If you do not count rounds fired you might want to start doing this. In the beginning it might be sort of a chore but will become second nature after a while.

I LMAO when I see a fellow Hunter try and fire a third shot from a double barreled shotgun at a bird. I always tease them by saying....... Hey, did you put a silencer on that Double Barrel - lol!

 

[Baxter6551]

I totally count rounds both when I am shooting and, just like Chief, the students when I am instructing. I think this started in the police academy shooting revolvers. Not sure if the instructors suggested it or if I just did it on my own. In any case like Chief said I don’t even realize I’m doing it anymore. I agree with him it’s a good idea.

 

[Valmet]

I too instinctively count rounds whenever I shoot, but don’t know how instinctive or realistic it would be in a gunfight/self defense scenario?

 

[mikerjf]

I do at the range... like above, no idea if I could do it in a real situation.

In the words of Dirty Harry <2010 version>, "...I know what you're thinking... "Did he fire 18 shots or only 17???". Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a Glock 17, the most issued handgun in the world, and could make a small hole in you if I was lucky enough to hit you, I've got to ask myself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do I, mook?" <reloads...>

 

[chief38]

I do at the range... like above, no idea if I could do it in a real situation.

In the words of Dirty Harry <2010 version>, "...I know what you're thinking... "Did he fire 18 shots or only 17???". Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a Glock 17, the most issued handgun in the world, and could make a small hole in you if I was lucky enough to hit you, I've got to ask myself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do I, mook?" <reloads...>

Thankfully I have never been in a gun fight and hope I never am! That said...... because I do count each and every time I shoot a gun, I would hope that would hold true in the event I need to shoot in a SD situation. At least I have a better chance than most who do not count. It is something I never even think about - I just do it.

 

[gwpercle]

When my Dad taught me to shoot ... he instructed ... "count your shot's "
valuable lesson ... you need to know how many rounds are left in your gun . Nothing worse than taking aim ... getting a perfect sight picture and then ...
" CLICK "
Gary

 

[Denverd0n]

I too instinctively count rounds whenever I shoot, but don’t know how instinctive or realistic it would be in a gunfight/self defense scenario?

Same here. I think anyone who has never actually been in a gunfight, where they are taking incoming fire, doesn't REALLY know for sure that they'll be able to count their rounds, no matter how religiously they do it at the range.


Nonetheless, a good habit to get into.

 

[stansdds]

USPSA competition taught me to count rounds as I shoot. It's a lot faster to reload and get back onto target when you don't have to release the slide.

 

[BE Mike]

It is hard enough to get shooters to watch the front sight and control the trigger!

 

[Fastbolt]

Yep, while it was an early practiced habit in my pre-LE shooting days, it became a deeply ingrained thing in my younger firearms instructor years.

Dunno exactly when and why, but it happened. It was something happening outside my conscious thoughts, like there was an automatic running tally going on in the back corner of my mind, in what's sometimes been called the 'subconscious combat computer' by some folks.

I'd find myself doing a tac-load (reload-with-retention, or whatever the newer generations like to call it) at the odd moment between movement or behind cover in some training scenarios, both as student and instructor in various venues, as that tally running in the background alerted me to running low or almost out of rounds in the current magazine. Even easier for the tally to send out an alert with a wheelgun, it seems.

 

[Old cop]

That happened to me in a 1974 gunfight when I had to reload in the midst of a gunfight. Somehow I knew I was empty w/o having to hear a click, reloaded w/a speedloader and was back in the fight in an instant.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Dirty Harry

In one scene Detective Harry Callahan is being patted down and disarmed and as they go through his pockets, they keep pulling out more speed loaders.
"How many of these have you got!?"

The more extra reloads you have the more often you can reload. You do NOT need to wait until the pistol is empty to reload it. If you have 30 more rounds on your belt, you may feel fine about dropping a mag which has a few live rounds in it.
Shoot and move.
Reload as you move.
If you run dry then move!
As you move reload.
If it is time to move, then MOVE! You do not need to wait until you are empty to move.
If you are moving, go ahead and reload.
If you fumble a magazine, go for the next one.

I remember however that I am NOT a cop. I do not need to do what they must do. I don't have to carry all the weight they do.
I don't have to chase down some perp to stop him from hurting others.
If I ever have to reload in a gunfight, I will literally be the first armed citizen to have ever done so.

Enjoyed the thread.
I recognize that I am espousing the alternative view. For several reasons I do not count rounds. If we are talking about winning a fight, of all the things, counting rounds is very low on my list. But please correct me. I say these things above so that the fine friends I have here on this excellent forum, men I respect and even admire, like Old Cop and Chief38 and even you can contradict me when I need it.

Best Regards!
BrianD

 

[Drm50]

Shooting target or hunting with a revolver doesn’t seem hard to keep up with the count. Whole different story when under fire. The slide or bolt held open after last shot is why the release mechanisms are on military weapons. You don’t see people saying did I fire 11 or 13? That’s why most cops don’t know how many shoots they fired in shoot outs.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Offhand, I don't know if I count rounds or not. It's easy enough to know your gun is empty at the range but I'm not so sure that the average shooter, experienced or not, is going to be counting rounds in a gunfight. Fortunately, most of us will never have to deal with that.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Police Academy

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

... You don’t see people saying did I fire 11 or 13? That’s why most cops don’t know how many shoots they fired in shoot outs.

That is the difference between the 1970s and the last 20 years.

Good cops will know and bad cops do not. FTFY ...

 

[fatcat3]

Works well for revolvers, but when you start talking 12, 15, 17 rd bottom feeders ya got to take your shoes off to keep track
I've been counting for years, but as a kid, Dad a WWII & Korea USMC combat vet said that's nice but you'll have other sh.... to keep you occupied.
By the time I went to work for the state I had been shooting J frames for years. During our week of firearms training and qualification I would shoot 1,2,3,4,5, and dump the cylinder. Luckily I was still in the habit of catching my brass, so I didn't have to bend over and pick up that one live round. You can teach and old dog new tricks. A few years go by and I'm not catching my brass, can shoot all six rounds, and we switch to autos, SON OF A GUN!
With Autos it was drilled into us "never shoot to lockback" so some sort of counting must be going on, and if there is a "break in contact, reload. Even if you only fired a couple of rounds.

 

[cracker57]

Heres what came up when I ask google do police officer who are in a shoot out count the rounds the fire?


No, police officers often don't count the number of rounds they fire during a shootout because of the high-stress situation.
Explanation
In stressful situations, officers may fire more rounds than necessary.
Many officers can't remember how many shots they fired right after a shooting.
For example, an officer might say they fired three or four shots when they actually fired 10 or 11.

 

[ladder13]

Carry 10+ and don’t worry

 

[Fastbolt]

Never underestimate the potential for experiencing 'bare fear' to overwhelm conscious or subconscious awareness and decision-making. The physiological effects of the hormonal fear response may be debilitating.

Granted, enough proper training (and the requisite recurrent practice of it) may help mitigate some of the effects of such stress, but it's unpredictable, at best.

Some folks find they can continue to access their ingrained training and make solid conscious decisions when the world is suddenly going to hell around them, and others may blank out and remember little or nothing of what happened, or their actions. It can get weird, too.