ALWAYS COUNT - IT BECOMES INSTINCT AFTER A WHILE

[sophie]

Counting rounds just comes naturally.
I mean, after all you need to know.
I’m only speaking of target shooting and range shooting.

 

[dubshooter]

Never underestimate the potential for experiencing 'bare fear' to overwhelm conscious or subconscious awareness and decision-making. The physiological effects of the hormonal fear response may be debilitating.

Granted, enough proper training (and the requisite recurrent practice of it) may help mitigate some of the effects of such stress, but it's unpredictable, at best.

Some folks find they can continue to access their ingrained training and make solid conscious decisions when the world is suddenly going to hell around them, and others may blank out and remember little or nothing of what happened, or their actions. It can get weird, too.

I didn’t realize that I had topped off my shotgun after my last shooting. I thought rounds fell out of my side saddle until they did the round count afterwards.

 

[Fastbolt]

I didn’t realize that I had topped off my shotgun after my last shooting. I thought rounds fell out of my side saddle until they did the round count afterwards.

Things like that can start to give you some insight into, and appreciation of, what "unconscious competence" means, huh?

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

Was counting rounds on the first PA range day 52 years ago. Only had to count to six. Counted in firearms instructors school still six. Counted as a instructor for 18 years and had to count higher, 18.

Retired for 22 years and while I still count, mostly to 5, it surprised me when I realized I was counting rounds watching YouTube videos. Not at all intentionally but I'd know the slide was locked back empty before the shooter was jerking a dead trigger..

Again not intentionally but watching TV shows or movies I've blurted out to my wife, "that guys out of ammo five rounds ago." This is kind of weird when I couldn't tell you my cell phone number.

 

[fiasconva]

Honestly, I have no problem counting rounds at the range, but there is no way I'd be able to do it in a SHTF situation. I'd be too busy doing CYA.

 

[jimmyj]

In revolver days we were taught to count our rounds.
However in a real gun fight that was not a top priority with chicken jimmy as I was SCARED.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Blessed are those who, in the face of death, focus on the front sight. – Lt Col Jeff Cooper USMCR (Ret)

Amateurs Practice Until They Get It Right; Professionals Practice Until They Can’t Get It Wrong

 

[gjgalligan]

With most modern pistols having several different sizes of mags counting the rounds also means remembering which size mag is in use at the moment.
I guess a fella could never use but one size of mags. But that would require limiting his choice of firearms as different brands don't always offer mags of the same size as other brands.

 

[Execpro]

Taught to count 6 rounds with a revolver, but with one spare mag of 8 rounds (as a civilian) there is the option to count 6 then do a tactical reload and run gun dry then reload the mag removed.
In both State and Fed requals, part of the qualifications is to run the gun dry and reload with a new full mag.
To be honest, if under stress I would probably run the gun dry and reload with a full mag. There is a good chance you would drop the first mag and loose the available rounds left in it.
During requals it was faster for me to run dry then reload a full mag. Just Sayen

 

[K Frame Keith]

I can’t count past 10. Good thing I carry a 1911.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

With Autos it was drilled into us "never shoot to lockback" so some sort of counting must be going on, and if there is a "break in contact, reload. Even if you only fired a couple of rounds.

I think you just described a combat reload. You'll never convince me that in a really "busy" firefight any combatants count rounds. A break in the action simply requires a combat reload. It's not more complex than that.

That's for LEOs and military gunfights. Civilian gunfights not so much. If you're a civilian in a high, multi-round gunfight you are either in a house of worship, a large store or a shopping mall, or you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Matt_X]

Yes I think that's the practical approach for most military applications. At least in most of the 20th cent, the military training is shoot to empty, know it is empty, and reload. Military training of course focuses on long arms, and combat excersizes follow arms qualification and focus on teamwork, and fire control. At some point, some soldiers got lots of ammo for practice, but historically military shooting tried to conserve ammo.


I agree with the OP that counting is good to do and should be incorporated once a person is ready to do so. At what point in the learning curve a person should do that, I can't say. It probably depends a bit on the discipline the person is focusing on. A hunter with a 2 or 3 shot limit, or someone shooting a bolt action loading from a block of precounted cartridges, not so important.


My experience has been that even in a Service Rifle type match, its all too easy to waste time pulling the trigger on an empty chamber if not counting during the sustained fire targets (Garand users excepted!). Hence the importance of doing it until instinctive.

 

[Brian Parrish]

I think you just described a combat reload. You'll never convince me that in a really "busy" firefight any combatants count rounds. A break in the action simply requires a combat reload. It's not more complex than that.

That's for LEOs and military gunfights. Civilian gunfights not so much. If you're a civilian in a high, multi-round gunfight you are either in a house of worship, a large store or a shopping mall, or you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Truth here, thanks.
The current doctrine now is shoot and move and reload while you move.
Dropping the mag as in an emergency reload, or reserving the mag as in a tactical reload, depends on what is happening in the fight.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I Have some 25 round SIG 322 mags.
Not sure if I can still count that high!

 

[gym cat]

Been counting so long in my 1911-- never have to rack the slide when reloading. That's the whole idea!!!!!!!

 

[Venom6]

Chuck Taylor said, "ability degrades fifty percent in combat," and I think he's right. It was part of my job to do the tactical debrief of officers in shootings after the detectives were done (800 man agency). It was extremely rare for an officer to have been able to count his rounds. While a very few did, there's just too much stress and too many other things going on and to consider for most of us mere mortals. In two of my own shootings I was able to count all the way up to two, but those incidents involved a shotgun, not a high-capacity pistol.

 

[WardenRoss]

Chuck Taylor said, "ability degrades fifty percent in combat," and I think he's right. It was part of my job to do the tactical debrief of officers in shootings after the detectives were done (800 man agency). It was extremely rare for an officer to have been able to count his rounds. While a very few did, there's just too much stress and too many other things going on and to consider for most of us mere mortals. In two of my own shootings I was able to count all the way up to two, but those incidents involved a shotgun, not a high-capacity pistol.

When I went through the Academy, back in the days of revolvers, we were taught to NEVER count our rounds. It was based on what you quoted, or something to that effect..."ability degrades fifty percent in combat."

Your full concentration must be on the sight picture and target awareness. If the shooting stops, immediately dump and reload. Even though you may have only fired a few rounds. You want a fully charged weapon ASAP.

Just sayin'




,

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Auto Guys trained to reload before mag is empty-
Did you make an effort ro retain the dropped mag?

 

[fatcat3]

Auto Guys trained to reload before mag is empty-
Did you make an effort ro retain the dropped mag?

Have the new mag in hand and in position before dropping the old. Strip the old mag with ring and little finger, slam in the new with thumb and two fore fingers/palm, pocket old mag, if you drop it oh well let it go. Faster than it sounds and easy to do with a bit of practice. Don't know if I could do that anymore with my hands. If you made the mistake of shooting to lockback. Dump the empty useless mag while getting a fresh mag simultaneously.

 

[WardenRoss]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H14QwwskSpU&t=2s[/ame]