Am I missing missing the mexican boat here? DEPUTY SHOT in Desert

CAJUNLAWYER said:
Half of me says "Yea Baby" but the other half is scared to death of the "Papers Please" mentality. I see this as a dangerous slope, notwithstanding the problem and the good intentions behind the law. But until we do something to stop the flow-like fining and putting in jail the people who hire the illegals, the problem is going to persist..
I much prefer the armed border approach.
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I worked at a plant years ago where the contract work was done by illegal aliens. The guy who hired them stated that if he ever got fined for it, well, that was the cost of doing business. He was not going to change because illegals worked cheaper and took more crap than American workers would.

I suspect that down the road, this thread will be locked. But the fact is, this country has been heading down this road for a long, long time and I feel it is too late to stop it to any reasonable degree that will not involve the forfieture of some individual rights and priveleges.

We, as a nation, let it get this way and this far in the first place.
 
"Sad to hear about the Pinal Co. Deputy. Hope he is OK."

The deputy is reportedly just fine, having suffered only a minor "flesh wound". Latest reports suggest some of a large group of drug smugglers in custody, most still the subject of a massive manhunt. If the usually geographically challenged reporters might be believed (?), they are reporting the incident occuring variously near the intersection of I-8 and AZ 84, and also, five miles south of I-8. This would place it near Antelope Peak Wilderness Area, and the Vekol Valley, a significant smuggling corridor, where visitors are warned by signage of the risk of encountering dangerous smugglers, and scanty law-enforcement presence and no cell phone service --- essentially --- no man's land, uncontrolled by US authorities, enter at your probable peril. Only idiots venture into the remote Vekol Valley unprepared for a forceful self defense ... This is another example of the disgraceful failure of the Feds to seal the border.
 
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Our politicians, all of them, are the bought and paid for property of corporations. Corporations like cheap labor and more customers. No one in charge of the issue in Washington D.C. cares about security or jobs of mere citizens.
 
There is a real potential for abuses under these new laws. As a law-abiding US citizen, I don't feel that I should be stopped/questioned/ harrassed because my skin is brown or because I happen to have a Spanish surname. I already get delayed on NCIBC eveytime I purchase a new firearm. This law doesn't do anything to combat the root problem. It is simply "feel good" legislation.
 
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If the law does nothing other than force the politicians in Washington to get off their collective partisian butts and do what their oath requires them to do it will be worth it.
 
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My thought is there's a sort of reverse profiling going on. As in: If your a white citizen of the USA of course it's your responsibility to care for anyone who reaches the country no matter what the circumstance or cost. That PC crap is liken to "white man's burden".
 
larbike said:
There is a real potential for abuses under these new laws. As a law-abiding US citizen, I don't feel that I should be stopped/questioned/ harrassed because my skin is brown or because I happen to have a Spanish surname. I already get delayed on NCIBC eveytime I purchase a new firearm. This law doesn't do anything to combat the root problem. It is simply "feel good" legislation.
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It is written to keep it from being abused.
Also... after you plug a leak in a boat, you shouldnt bail the water overboard?


Jim
 
This law isn't different than the "seatbelt" law. Gotta be stopped for something else to get "green stamps" for the belt. Now do I believe the . gov should get my cash just because I don't like having a "nanny" you bet. A lot more voted for what we got. Everybody, me included, better deal with it. Joe
 
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Evil One said:
It is written to keep it from being abused.
Also... after you plug a leak in a boat, you shouldnt bail the water overboard?


Jim
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The problem is that this law does not "plug the leak" nor does it "bail water". What it does is add the potential for additional burdens and infringements on the personal freedoms of citizens. Suppose a number of states enacted legislation to combat illegal possession of automatic weapons.They empower their law enforcement officers to routinely monitor shooting ranges and inspect suspicious weapons to check for illegal modifications and to check serial numbers and verify proof of legal ownership. Even if this law was carefully written I think you can see the potential for abuses. Those people shooting AR-15 and AK 47 style weapons would likely be hassled a lot more often than someone shooting a revolver. Many people might even think that this law was perfectly reasonable and a necessary compromise to prevent illegal activity. While my analogy is not perfect, I hope that it gets my point across. I find restrictions and infringements on personal freedoms as abhorrent as those against our second amendment rights.
 
What's wrong with apprehending criminals?

larbike said:
The problem is that this law does not "plug the leak" nor does it "bail water". What it does is add the potential for additional burdens and infringements on the personal freedoms of citizens. Suppose a number of states enacted legislation to combat illegal possession of automatic weapons.They empower their law enforcement officers to routinely monitor shooting ranges and inspect suspicious weapons to check for illegal modifications and to check serial numbers and verify proof of legal ownership. Even if this law was carefully written I think you can see the potential for abuses. Those people shooting AR-15 and AK 47 style weapons would likely be hassled a lot more often than someone shooting a revolver. Many people might even think that this law was perfectly reasonable and a necessary compromise to prevent illegal activity. While my analogy is not perfect, I hope that it gets my point across. I find restrictions and infringements on personal freedoms as abhorrent as those against our second amendment rights.
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I have to disagree as your analogy just doesn't work for me. For the record I grew up on the border in San Diego, lived there for 51 years and have lived in Tucson for the last five. I have worked and traveled extensively in Mexico and have no problem with the Mexican people. I am very familiar with this issue. This law is just another tool for law enforcement and it does in fact begin to plug the leak and to bail the water. Anyone arrested cannot be released until their immigration status is verified. If they are illegal they are outa here. Anytime you are stopped by the police they have the right and you have the obligation to provide identification. Nothing new here. Most folks use a drivers license, which in Arizona you cannot get unless you have proven your legal status. Don't drive? No problem there are state ID cards, they look just like a DL and are issued on the same basis, you have to show your legal status to get one.

If you are here illegally you are a criminal, period! As such you are not entitled to ANY government assistance such as medical, welfare, education etc.. How anyone can be offended by the police apprehending criminals and letting the law be applied is beyond me. This law, though poorly written (it's already been seriously amended once), is the result of the federal government completely failing to do the job. It is a wake up call to Washington to address the problem. The border violence here in southern Arizona is off the charts. There are many areas that have become no mans land for law abiding citizens. We have to retake control of our state and reestablish law and order.

We not only have to get rid of the illegal population that continue to bleed the taxpayers dry utilizing government services that they are not entitled to but we must also secure our borders. If you want illegals to have all these wonderful benefits then change the law...but good luck with that. Mexicans (or folks from any other country), who come here legally should be entitled to exactly the same benefits that an American would receive in their country, no more, no less. If you come here illegally you should get a jail cell, just as an American would receive in your country.
 
beach elvis said:
Ok...waitaminnit...
Arizona makes it illegal to be illegal?.
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Been to a gun show in Arizona recently? Notice the hand carts loaded with .223 ammo being loaded into pickup trucks that are all dusty and have that "rural Arizona" look?

Bet yer booties that isn't for jack rabbits out in the desert. It's for protection from dangerous -Mexicans- hauling up drugs and people into OUR country.

For the elitists in D.C. their biggest alien problem is the "just can't find good help" kind. They're not getting shot at. When that happens, suddenly -they- will be demanding "something be done" too!
 
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Capt Steve said:
If you are here illegally you are a criminal, period!
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This will be resolved. A version of the Bush/McCain amnesty scheme will surely come about in the near future... no more law breakers.... all will be well.

Dirty little secret - America is headed towards an age demographics cliff. America didn't produce enough ninos the past 40 years for various reasons.... some of which are banned from discussion here. America will soon be begging for an expanded tax base (read immigrants) for retired baby boomers to suckle.
 
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My thinking is that this "law" was designed and intended to be the proverbial 2X4 on the head of the mule (Feds), an attention-getter.

Pete
 
This law, though poorly written (it's already been seriously amended once), is the result of the federal government completely failing to do the job.
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The law was written by a UMKC law professor who is an internationally known expert on immigration law. It was written to follow existing federal law(the only difference being local LEO enforcement) and withstand the expected legal challenges.

My hope is that the law finally gets the feds to do their job.

Bob
 
In 1861 there were approx. 31,000,000 in the U.S. (east if the Mississippi). In 1947 the year of my birth there were 155,000,000 people in the U.S.. As of the previous Census there's 300,000,000 here and maybe anther 12-20 million illegals. I believe Latino population now is close to 40%. If 40% is true then we need birth police or like locusts we're gonna run out of room to feed. Soylent Green? This racist BS has to be addressed with some facts. Who's going to do that? Not the bloated, everything's O.K. on my side of the fence government we have now. I mow my own lawn and make a pretty good taco. I can also hang siding in pinch, and do a little roofing. Everybody should learn these skills.
 
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