Any J frame shooting tips?

nanney1

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I pretty much stink at shooting my 442. Through two range trips, I've put 120 rounds through it. I guess you can say at around 5 yards I can hit center mass, but only if you count anywhere from the shoulders to the lower abdomen and anywhere in between. Usually high and low.

After my first trip, I realized it may have something to do with hand placement. I was using a auto pistol style grip last time. Today, I tried what I saw demonstrated here with Jerry Miculek:
MICULEK2

About 3/4 down the page, he shows his grip on a 642. I tried this today but got some buzz stinging on the top thumb. I'm a righty, so it was my left thumb getting zinged. Tried stabilizing with my left index on the front of the trigger guard, but that wasn't comfortable either. Regardless of what I tried, I was still off from where I was aiming.

Really, I should start shooting this gun at 3 yards before even trying at 5 yards again.
 
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I own 4 J's....3 stainless and 1 blue.

All I can offer is practice, practice, practice.

I have never shot any of the airweights but gotta believe the extra weight of a fully steel frame would be of some benefit.

At the range a couple of weeks ago, I was able to place fist-size groupings at 10 yards with 2 of my Model 60ND snubbies.
 
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Carried (and qualified with at 25 yards) either a M40 or 640 for almost 40 years. I would start with a steel frame model and target full lead wadcutters at 5 or 7 yards, practice till you can put all into 9 or better ring. Then increase distance incrementally, then increase power of load, if you desire (plenty of criminal perpetrators have met thier end by virtue of the 148 grain LHBWC).

You can still carry the airweights, but I would practice, practice, practice with the steel frame.

Also, nothing beats having someone with experience show you the ropes, in person, not that the guy you mentioned isn't pretty good.
 
First of all, do the grips fit your hand?
I couldn't shoot my 442 worth a darn with the factory grips. They just didn't fit my extra large hand.
I switched it for a Pachmayr Compact grip that fit my hand a lot better.


Personally, I use the crossed thumbs kinda grip. Works better for me.


Lotsa dry fire practice'll help with trigger control.
 
Many years ago I think it was Massad Ayoob who wrote that J frames should be "shot a little and carried a lot". That definitely goes for the lightweight versions; the all steel versions are a little easier to handle.

It is nothing but masochistic to blast away at the range with a lightweight J frame. They are not target guns and none of us are Jerry Miculek or the late Bob Munden. Making your living shooting fast and at long distance with these little guns is a far cry from getting used to one so you can carry it and use it correctly if you need to defend yourself.

In the world of "YMMV" guys will tell you that they carry their J frames stoked with +P loads, .357 Magnums, etc. In the world of my humble opinion I think it is a waste of time. You need second shot capability, not monster recoil - that you then lie to yourself about and say it doesn't bother you and you can handle it and won't notice it under pressure, etc. Baloney.

I've been shooting these little guns for 40 years - I don't like them. As an instructor I much prefer to teach someone to handle a gun that doesn't hurt. I often carry a J frame. Because it is convenient and easy. I prefer my 2" K frame or compact 9mm - both easier to shoot and neither that much more difficult to carry than a J frame. Both far more accurate, too.

So, that little rant behind me (not the first time I have written that way, either), let's talk about shooting the 442.

First, yes, find what's comfortable. THEN figure out how to aim it while your grip is comfortable. Next, yes, you should shoot that J frame at 3 yards until you can competently put reasonable groups into center mass of a silhouette target all the time before trying at 5 yards again.

Nine feet is not difficult. Fifteen feet becomes more problematic and, again, you want reasonable groups in center mass. You can graduate to 7 yards once you know that you are well defended at close distances - which is really what a J frame is for. Anything past 20 feet or so is not what J frames are about. I am not saying there are no shooters making groups at 25 yards - there are. The question is why bother to practice that much with a gun that will wear your shooting hands out when you will never get into a gunfight at 75 feet with that thing.

Good luck! I expect criticism from some circles but that's what YMMV is all about.
 
The airweight j frames are among the most difficult to shoot well of all handguns.

First, limit the number of rounds you shoot during each range trip.

We read about people shooting truly heroic numbers of rounds at each session: sometimes hundreds of rounds. Limit yourself to 25-50 rounds. Little skill improvement occurs as a result of shooting more.

Shoot target loads. The traditional target load of 148 gr wc ammo is pleasant to shoot, tends to shoot to point of aim and is quite effective used for sd.

Dry fire daily. 10 or 15 rounds of dry fire daily is plenty if you're focusing. More won't help.

Learn to focus on the front sight and FOLLOW THROUGH! Hold your sight picture through the shot - pay attention to where the sights are after the shot.

Slow down! Get good at slow fire. One shot at a time. Rest for a moment between shots. Volume isn't the same thing as quality.

Take a lesson from a good instructor.
 
PROPER practice is the key -- not just firing a bunch of rounds. Start off with dryfire practice to get trigger control down. Concentrate on the sights and keeping them aligned throughout the trigger pull. When you go back to the range for live fire, start at close range and concentrate just as you did with the dryfiring. Take your time. Evaluate each shot as you go along, and when your control starts to deteriorate -- stop! Put up the little gun for the day. Do more dryfiring at home, etc., etc. It'll come...
 
Warning: Massive novel ahead. Beware of eye strain.

The best thing to do would be to find a good instructor with experience shooting a J-frame well. However, without an instructor, this is what I would suggest, based on what works for me. It may or may not work for you, but it might be worth trying. You said you're right-handed, so I'll go with that.

Invest in some snap caps (I like A-Zooms) and do at least a few minutes of dry fire practice every day. At first, don't worry about sight alignment. Set up a safe backstop in a room that has absolutely NO live ammo. Practice pulling the trigger straight back while keeping the gun lined up on target. When you can pull the trigger straight back without disturbing the gun's alignment, then you can work on sight alignment while pulling the trigger straight back.

When pulling the trigger, don't stage it. Pull straight back in a smooth, constant motion. Getting the speed right takes practice. Too fast and you can jerk the gun off target. Too slow and you may find yourself constantly correcting your target alignment.

Trigger finger placement isn't critical so long as you can pull the trigger straight back, but you will probably get the best leverage by using the distal joint of your trigger finger. As you pull the trigger straight back, don't worry about keeping the finger at that spot the entire time. It's ok if your trigger finger slides across the face of the trigger a little bit, as long as the trigger is being pulled straight back.

BTW, I mention pulling the trigger straight back a lot because that's probably the most important part of getting good hits on target.

I wouldn't bother with Miculek's J-frame grip advice. It's not really that good, especially if you shoot other kinds of guns. The left thumb can interfere with the hammer on revolvers so equipped, and if you're not careful and use that grip while shooting a semi-auto you could injure your thumb from the slide cycling.

For your grip, make sure the barrel is lined up with your forearm. Grip the gun high up on the shoulder, but not all the way up. The top part of the backstrap should be above the web of your hand slightly, maybe 1/8" or so. If you grip the gun all the way up that shoulder could drive into the web of your hand and make the felt recoil worse. Plus, depending on your hands, it could also make the angle your trigger finger makes to the trigger awkward. At least it does for me.

Wrap your middle, ring, and pinky fingers around the grip. If you can't get your pinky finger securely on the grip, you can try curling it under the grip frame. Apply pressure front-to-back. Think of your fingers and your palm as the jaws of a vise applying pressure on the grip. This will help with control and, in my experience, also helps with pulling the trigger back. Curling your right thumb down can improve grip strength and give you better control.

For your support hand, put the fleshy part of your thumbs together. Place your left thumb so that's on top of your right thumb. I actually put the pad of my left thumb on top of the thumb joint. Wrap your left hand fingers around your right hand fingers so that the left hand fingers fall between your right hand fingers, as if your right hand fingers were finger grooves on a grip. What I do is have my left index finger fall between the right hand middle finger and the bottom of the trigger guard, and the rest of the fingers fall in place accordingly.

I use the vise analogy for applying pressure with the support hand, except the pressure is applied side-to-side. I use equal pressure. I squeeze hard until my hands shake and then back off pressure until the shaking stops. Firm pressure is applied with both hands.

When you go to the range, put the target as close as you can. 3 yards is probably a good starting point. It's fine to go closer if you can, though I know some ranges may have restrictions on how close you can place the target. Even 3 feet would be acceptable. What you want is the target as close as you can get it so that you're getting good groups. When your groups start getting smaller, move the target further out.

Get the lightest kicking ammo you can find, at least at first. I like 130gr FMJ. 148gr WC would also be good. Also, keep your round count down. I find that 50-75 rounds is about my max in any given shooting session. It's better to fire fewer, higher quality rounds than a lot of rounds that end up being lower quality because of fatigue.

Increasing your grip strength can also be helpful. I like to use Captains of Crush grippers, but just about any grippers, stress balls, tennis balls, etc. will help. You can even do arm/shoulder isometrics with your gun. Again, make sure the gun is unloaded and you have a safe backstop. Just hold the gun up on target without shooting. When your hand/arm starts shaking, bring it down and relax. Repeat. By strengthening the muscles used when you shoot, it can help you focus on technique instead of fighting fatigue.

Additionally, look into the revolver books by Grant Cunningham. He has some really good methods for shooting. His snub revolver book has a lot of good tips for learning how to shoot a snub well.

Anyways, sorry for all the details, but that's the approach that I use and it works for me. Give it a try and see if at least some of it works for you.
 
Make sure you follow through on the trigger after each shot; i.e., follow the trigger down to it's forward position with your trigger finger. This, more than anything else, helped to improve my shooting.

When shooting DA revolvers, the trigger reset is just as important as the trigger pull. It becomes even more important when you progess to shooting faster, but don't worry about speed now. Crawl, walk, then run.
 
Here's my take on it. There might be others that make sense, but this is the only one that fits how I understand what's going on, and I can shoot most J frames well.

First, you have to learn to shoot well with a normal handgun, with a normal weight, decent sights, and grips that fit your hand. Sight alignment, use of the trigger in a way that doesn't screw up your sight alignment when the gun goes off, and no critically undesirable events after the gun goes off, like a bloody hand, more pain than you think is acceptable (for me that = 0), or shifting of the gun in the hand that makes second or third or fourth shots too slow.

I presume that you already have a gun that works, and that you know how to keep your shots in the black (nine ring) on an NRA bullseye target used at the distance for which it is designed. If you don't yet, you need to learn to do so. If you can't shoot a normal gun yet, you should not be surprised that you can not shoot an Airweight J frame yet.

Next, since you are trying to figure out how to shoot a DAO S&W revolver, you need to learn to shoot DA. This is not easy for everyone. There are, I believe, two basic approaches, and probably both are majorly affected by the choice or mischoice of grips. And that's on a normal-weight revolver. So your next step is to learn to shoot DA, and to have some idea of what is required in terms of how the gun needs to fit your hand.

Now, if you can stay in the black with a normal-size-and-weight revolver, you have a pretty good idea where your trigger finger is supposed to go, and how you and the grips interact when you pull on the trigger. You are probably now in a position to judge whether any particular grips are worth anything on a steel J frame, without even firing the pistol. With firing, you can completely evaluate the possibility of making any J frame, even an Airweight, work. Please understand that without proper grips, a 442 can be almost useless, except as a belly gun, as I understand the term. A belly gun is a gun you stick into his belly, and pull the trigger while it's still there. But you seem to be complaining about not getting a bit better accuracy than that.

Frankly, this may be an argument for the Bodyguard (38, 49, 638, 649), a gun that can be used SA when appropriate, and is still a functioning belly gun. The same also applies to the Chief's Special. However, many people DO learn to shoot DA with considerable accuracy, probably just as accurately as SA.

Once you have learned to shoot DA, you will be able to judge for yourself what are proper grips for your hand and your revolver. They may be larger than you might have originally thought, or maybe in rare cases (like mine), smaller. Just be aware that it is on YOU to learn to shoot DA, and YOU will be the judge of what are good grips, not someone else. There is not even a guarantee that any particular gun will have ANYBODY making grips that will work for you, although usually there is.

So my recommendation is:

Learn to stay in the black on the appropriate target.

Learn to stay in the black shooting DA on the appropriate target.

Using what you've learned with normal guns, make sure that your 442 has proper grips.

Practice with your 442 if it doesn't hurt with proper grips (if it does, dump it and buy a steel gun).

Hope this helps.
 
Howdy nanny1!

In addition to the good advice the other members have offered I would add a couple of things that helped me.

When I got my first revolver, a 637-2 not that long ago, a good friend and shooting buddy passed away and left it to me along with a couple of semi-autos. I wondered why he left me that gun, he knew I didn't like it, I was an M&P guy.

Anyway, I decided that because he did, I would honor his memory and learn how to shoot it. When I began, I was no better than you, rounds all over the target. I was down on myself, how could this be I thought. My .40 caliber Shield is about the same size and I shoot it just fine.

So I set about to learn how to shoot my Airweight. The first thing I did was to send $20 or so and I got a grip that I could get all my fingers on, a Hogue Monogrip. In addition to being able to get all my fingers on it, the grip was soft rubber so it soaked up some of the recoil.

The next thing was changing my grip on the revolver. I was using the same grip I used with my semi-autos, after all it worked for them. Not so much with the 637 though. What I did that I still works for me is to wrap my support thumb over my strong hand thumb. Now, that obviously won't work with a gun with a slide. I would get sliced by the slide when it cycled. But for me, with a revolver it works great! However, YMMV as Yoda said.

I also painted my front sight with a white base coat and green on top. I just used nail polish. I use green because I see it well, again whatever color works for you. I took a black sharpie to the rear deck of the back sight, but your 442 is already black, so no worries there.

The third thing for me, coming from M&P's was sight picture. M&P's use a combat sight picture, and I was used to adjustable sights, not fixed. That took me some time to adjust, learning how to correctly sight the gun in.

Nowadays, I'm a revolver guy and it all started with that little Airweight. I can shoot it pretty good most days out to 15 yards, but I prefer to practice at 5-10 yards. Practice, practice , practice! Hope this helps!
 
All of the above. Learn to shoot a revelover. Don't shoot all day and get tired. Shoot 50 from full size. Rest a bit. Then shoot the J frame. But for me On the J frame I don't try to drive nails. 7 yard line and don't try to aim like the full size. Point and shoot slowly. Relax breath and don't worry about the flyers. They will come in as you learn the J frame. At seven yards a 10 inch center mass group of five is fine for a starter. This my opinion.
 
I've never shot the air weight J-frames. I have Always had stainless J-frames that are around 10 oz. heavier and that helps with recoil. One Big fix I found is getting the Right Grip for your hand. I have large hands and the Smith & Wesson factory J-frame 3 finger rubber grip (can be ordered from Smith by phone.)Part # 41304000 for $27.95 & $6.95 shipping works for me. I have a 640-1 Pro Series .357 magnum J-frame and get only light recoil with Full factory 158gr FMJ .357 loads. So maybe they would help.
 
NOT GONNA GET INTO GRIP STYLES

Since there is so much personal preference there, I'll just go with. DON'T START practicing with +P ammo. Finding a 22 caliber in the closest size/wt just for practice would be a comfortable/affordable way to get in lot's of practice. Then move along as able.
 
I have 3 model 60s and shoot them a lot. I can have all 5 shots over lapping on the target at 10 yards. I do not stack the trigger, I just pull st thru. Im a better shot with my 60-14 then any gun I have ever shot.
One thing to do is a lot of dry firing and dry fire with a snap cap standing up on the barrel. You should practice enough to dry fire your gun many times in a row without the snap cap falling off.
That will show yu how steady you really are.
 
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