How long ago was this and was Mas carrying a J-Frame as a primary? I've never known him to use a J as anything but a back-up gun.
Any J frame shooting tips?
- Thread starter nanney1
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How long ago was this and was Mas carrying a J-Frame as a primary? I've never known him to use a J as anything but a back-up gun.
RGVshooter
Member
I just came back from the range today with my 642-2. Shot about 75 rounds of my reloads. 158gr. LRN, 4.8grs power pistol COL of 1.510" using the grip described by Jerry Miculek. Support hand thumb wrapped around behind the strong hand. This cured the thumb bite from the cylinder release. The key is to have a much tighter grip with your support hand over the strong hand. With the stock rubber grip, recoil was stout enough to leave red bruising in the web of my hand. But no pain. Swapping out with a pachmayr compac grip made a difference. That exposed back strap with the stock grip is punishing.
Great stuff here. I've got a few J frames and my results have always varied. My EDC is a DAO 36 and I can get consistent groups all the time. She's a shooter. I really like how it handles with the Pachmayr Compacs I have on it. My Airweights, 438,442,642 do the job but I'm not as consistent as the 36. My 640-1, which is a safe queen, I just can't seem to get as consistent of results. I love that gun though, maybe I just need to get it out more.
ContinentalOp
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If I may respond, IIRC, back in the 90s Ayoob spent some time carrying a pair of J-frames as an experiment. He wrote an article about his experience. I can't say whether or not he taught that class during this period.
ContinentalOp
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On the topic of grips, it's a personal choice. What works for one person may not work for another.
For example, my 642-1 is much more "pleasant" to shoot with wood Spegel boot grips than the current S&W factory rubber boot grips even though they're both boot grips with exposed backstraps, mostly because the palm swells on the Spegels do a better job of filling my hand and spreading out the recoil force. It's also possible that the smooth wood grips are less grabby on my hands than the rubber grips, adding to the comfort level.
Like holsters, grips are one of those things you're probably going to have to experiment with, unless you get lucky on your first try.
For example, my 642-1 is much more "pleasant" to shoot with wood Spegel boot grips than the current S&W factory rubber boot grips even though they're both boot grips with exposed backstraps, mostly because the palm swells on the Spegels do a better job of filling my hand and spreading out the recoil force. It's also possible that the smooth wood grips are less grabby on my hands than the rubber grips, adding to the comfort level.
Like holsters, grips are one of those things you're probably going to have to experiment with, unless you get lucky on your first try.
LJBrennan007
Member
What everyone else already said! I carried an M60 from about 1979 to 1989, then an M36 from 1990 to 1999, then an M38 airweight until about 9 months ago, when I discovered the trigger on the Kimber K6S. I, like many people, always of the mind that "I can't shoot this gun for **** in double action mode but I plan on cocking the hammer and taking my time when the poop hits the fan". In reality, when I shoot drills I shoot double action, and the Kimber just has an unbelievable double action stroke. I can shoot full house .357's out if it way better than I can shoot standard .38 spl from my M39 bodyguard. The Kimber is a little bit heavier but has 6 .357 shots not 5 .38's. I still carry (and shoot) my M38 since it is still the lightest, most concealable snubbie out there, but for EDC it is the K6S all day long. My opinions only!
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one eye joe
US Veteran
HI MISTER X. IIRC, IT WAS SOMETIME IN THE 1980s. IT WAS THE ONLY WEAPON THAT I SAW HIM WITH, DURING THE TWO DAYS......
DURING THE EVENING OF THE FIRST DAY, 1/2 DOZEN OR SO, OF US TOOK MAS TO SUPPER, AND THEN TO A LOCAL RANGE. WE WERE ALL ARMED, AND I DON'T RECALL MAS CARRYING A LARGER WEAPON.......
I WAS CARRYING A FULL SIZE, COLT 1911, BACK THEN. IT WAS A HABIT THAT I CARRIED OVER INTO CIVILIAN LIFE, AFTER LEAVING VIETNAM, AND THE US ARMY IN 1969......
SUBSEQUENT TO TAKING THIS TRAINING, AND GETTING TO SPEND SOME ADDITIONAL TIME WITH MAS, I GAINED A LOT OF RESPECT FOR HIM, AS AN INSTRUCTOR, A CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL PISTOLERO (HE OBLITERATED THE X-RING, WITH ONE SMALL RAGGED HOLE, USING ONE OF THE STUDENTS NEW COMPACT 9MM PISTOLS, AT THE RANGE) AND A FINE, DOWN-TO-EARTH, HUMAN BEING......
A FEW WEEKS LATER, I SLAPPED A SET OF CRIMSON TRACE, LASER GRIPS ON MY SLICKED UP 1911. IT WAS MY EDC, PAST THE TURN OF THE CENTURY......
BTW, IF I EVER RUN ACROSS THE PICS OF MAS AND I, AND THE TARGET HE SHOT, I WILL POST THEM---PROBABLY IN THE LOUNGE AREA. I'M 76 YO NOW, AND I WOULD ESTIMATE THAT MAS MUST BE AROUND 70 YO. WE WERE MUCH YOUNGER THEN, AND IT WILL BE A HOOT, FOR ME TO SEE. I WILL SEND MAS COPIES ALSO, AS ONE OF HIS LOYAL FANS......
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one eye joe
US Veteran
HI ContinentalOp, THAT IS VERY INTERESTING. THANKS FOR SHARING. IIRC, I TOOK THE CLASS, SOMETIME IN THE 1980s......
MAS APPEARED TO HOLD THE J FRAME IN HIGH REGARD, SO IT SEEMS NOT A HUGE LEAP, THAT HE MIGHT TRY CARRYING A SECOND ONE, FOR A NEW YORK RELOAD.....
RGVshooter
Member
I'm not sure if the trigger on my 642-2 airweight has gotten smoother or if my hands got stronger from all my shooting.
I know the article you're referencing. It was entitled "Is a .38 snub enough." It was from 2000. I used to have a link to it and I think the snubnose files did as well, but the link is dead and I can't find it anywhere else. I think I do recall him saying something like he was glad to strap on a .45 when the experiment was over. The 80's was awhile ago now and it's very possible he carried a snub as a primary at times back then.
one eye joe
US Veteran
I WOULD HAVE TO THINK THAT IT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT OF EACH, RGVshooter.....
MY 642-1 TRIGGER SEEMS TO HAVE GOTTEN SMOOTHER, WITH USE........
You still have to PRACTICE...
....with alloy guns and preferably a load that's equal to carry rounds. That Hogue monogrip really helps, too.
My wife wanted that gun, and the first time my son shot it he said, "There ain't NO WAY Mom's going to be able to shoot that gun.!"
I did get some tamer loads.
....with alloy guns and preferably a load that's equal to carry rounds. That Hogue monogrip really helps, too.
My wife wanted that gun, and the first time my son shot it he said, "There ain't NO WAY Mom's going to be able to shoot that gun.!"
I did get some tamer loads.
S&WsRsweet
Member
Short of professional instruction from someone who knows how to shoot a DA revolver well ( and most can't) I would suggest getting a book called GunDigest Book of the Revolver by Grant Cunningham MIT is well written easy to understand and I have been shooting revolvers since the seventies and I picked up a few tips and relearned some things I had forgotten just th chapter on care and maintinance is worth the price of the book .
I have a 638. I shoot it using double action and it is very snappy. It is not a pleasant gun to shoot a 100 rounds through. I do carry it so the practice sessions are limited to maybe 25 to 50 rounds. Each practice session includes shooting a couple cylinders of my carry +p ammo(125grn Remington semi jacketed hollow point). I have replaced the stock springs with a Wilson combat set. That really helped the trigger pull. I have also replaced the stock grips with the ergo grips. They really helped in controlling the recoil and getting a good grip on the little guy. At 7-10 yds my hits with this gun are in the zone.
But as I have said it is not a pleasant gun to shoot. It is a tool of self defense. I know what it will do and trust it when I pocket carry it.
But as I have said it is not a pleasant gun to shoot. It is a tool of self defense. I know what it will do and trust it when I pocket carry it.
misswired
Absent Comrade
Found a Hogue monogrip locally yesterday... Feels a lot better and actually fits the pocket without rolling' around too!
Weather permitting, I'll get in some more practice this afternoon... Maybe some DA also.
I wish you the best and have in the past owned a lightweight snub, a LCR in 38 to be exact. I did not like shooting it and sold it. And I don't think I'm recoil sensitive.
I now own a SP101 and 38s are a joy, even +p. Moral, lightweight snubs can be difficult to master (follow up shots) and rough on your hands. So after reading most of the above posts I'd agree that you should practice with short range sessions, dry fire it a lot and start at short distances and work your way out.
The other suggestion is you buy a heaver snub if that's what you really want to carry. I like my SP101 but I have to admit I don't carry it often.
I now own a SP101 and 38s are a joy, even +p. Moral, lightweight snubs can be difficult to master (follow up shots) and rough on your hands. So after reading most of the above posts I'd agree that you should practice with short range sessions, dry fire it a lot and start at short distances and work your way out.
The other suggestion is you buy a heaver snub if that's what you really want to carry. I like my SP101 but I have to admit I don't carry it often.
The first thing to good shooting with a rifle, shotgun or pistol is a good fit.
If it is off, the point of aim will not go to line of sight.
With my hand size, I had to remove the small factory grips and went
to a full rubber Hogue grip that covered ALL of the metal frame.
While at the gun shop I picked up two packages of snap caps, since I knew
that a lot of dry firing would help me learn the trigger break and see how the muzzle
was moving through the shot.
After four days of "Dry", I was able to go to an indoor range and do just 50 rounds to see how my grip and trigger control was at just ten feet.
As mentioned, the J snub is one of the hardest weapons to shoot well.
Lots of dry and real time is needed to bring it all together.
As a note, I always teach the off-hand thumb down and away from the auto pistol "Meat shredder" area.
Good shooting.
If it is off, the point of aim will not go to line of sight.
With my hand size, I had to remove the small factory grips and went
to a full rubber Hogue grip that covered ALL of the metal frame.
While at the gun shop I picked up two packages of snap caps, since I knew
that a lot of dry firing would help me learn the trigger break and see how the muzzle
was moving through the shot.
After four days of "Dry", I was able to go to an indoor range and do just 50 rounds to see how my grip and trigger control was at just ten feet.
As mentioned, the J snub is one of the hardest weapons to shoot well.
Lots of dry and real time is needed to bring it all together.
As a note, I always teach the off-hand thumb down and away from the auto pistol "Meat shredder" area.
Good shooting.
One of the things I really like about the two Centerfire ex-police 640-1's I bought was how nice the triggers were already. One of them has the sweetest J frame trigger I have ever felt. The second is close behind. I also have a 36-7 in 95%+ condition that used to hold the title of best J frame trigger for me. I have not felt the need to change anything on my triggers. I just do a LOT of dry firing.
Backlighting
Member
I'm amazed how easily Hickok45 makes shooting a snubby no big deal.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCq7LJgbvCA[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCq7LJgbvCA[/ame]
