Are we drawing are guns too soon?

[Hook686]

I'll agree with most of what you're saying, avoidance, de-escalation, other options.

I disagree that the deployment of a weapon should be the last resort. That statement always implies that the person should first apply or attempt to apply lesser means before going to deadly force. That's not always a viable option. You may not be able to safely withdraw, use persuasion, non-lethal physical force or other techniques due to the speed of the attack, determination of the agressor, or physical abilities, to name a few.

Each situation is unique unto itself and can only be assessed by the person involved subject to a review (investigation) by the police and prosecutor. Absent political or agenda driven motivations, as long as the use of force meets existing legal standards and the person has acted reasonably under the circumstances, "woulda, coulda, shoulda" doesn't matter.

This most certainly depends upon the jurisdiction. In California one is expected to take a beatdown before resorting to lethal force (drawing a weapon). Know the legal standard in your location, and the locations you visit.

 

[Ironhand]

There are 343,000 of us here in Tenn permitted to carry.

Last year reporting- 2010

Permits Revoked = 108
Felony Conviction- 36
Court order/Administrative- 72

Permits Suspended = 756
Court Order/Administrative 45
Felony Arrest- 342
Misdemeanor Conviction- 337
Protective Order- 32


In 2009 there were 292 revoked and 436 suspended for a total of 728

In 2008 there were a total of 263 revoked and 344 suspended for a total of 607.

Don't know how many of the above were actually related to an incident while carrying a gun or anything to do with a gun for that matter, but 100 permits revoked last report out of a total of 343,000 looks like folks are generally staying out of trouble with their guns and the law... much to the chagrin of anti-gun folks...

Tenn is issuing lot's of carry permits. Original issues (not renewals) 2008- 34,000. 2009- 59,000. 2010- 41,000

Mine should be here any day. It's been 3 weeks as of today since I turned in all the paperwork and fingerprints.

 

[oldman45]

There are 343,000 of us here in Tenn permitted to carry.

Last year reporting- 2010

Permits Revoked = 108
Felony Conviction- 36
Court order/Administrative- 72

Permits Suspended = 756
Court Order/Administrative 45
Felony Arrest- 342
Misdemeanor Conviction- 337
Protective Order- 32


In 2009 there were 292 revoked and 436 suspended for a total of 728

In 2008 there were a total of 263 revoked and 344 suspended for a total of 607.

Don't know how many of the above were actually related to an incident while carrying a gun or had anything to do with a gun for that matter, but 100 permits revoked and 750 suspensions last report out of a total of 343,000 looks like folks are generally staying out of trouble with their guns and the law... much to the chagrin of anti-gun folks...

Tenn is issuing lot's of carry permits. Original issues (not renewals) 2008- 34,000. 2009- 59,000. 2010- 41,000

Edit Add - I just read at Legally Armed that most all the "Revoked" permits in Tenn are due to a lag time with original permits in getting info from the Feds. Tenn issues the permit but then later gets information about prior actions and revokes the permit. So... I guess you'd have to toss out the 655 revoked permits over the past three years and primary look at the just suspended. So.... in 2010 1 in about 450 permit holders had some type of issue with the law that resulted in some type of suspension. 2009 and 2008 a guestimate number would be 1 in 800-900 or so. And of those, I wonder what percentage were actually gun related issues?

I like your sources for information. They are always in good readable form.

Who knows what the suspensions are for? Most notably around here is failure to notify of a change of address. What shocked me is the number of felony convictions that caused loss of permits. As to felony arrests, they are often pled down and those that stick will usually take another year to find their way to the stats.

TN has a lot better record of revokes and suspensions than does LA.

Yet I do not buy the lag time by the Feds. One call, that's all. Suppose someone is a felon and gets stopped. Not sure about TN but LA types it in and the Feds sends it back in minutes. Now if there is something typed wrong or otherwise like a false name, then there may be a delay.

Yrs ago, we had a man get in trouble in a bar. He was arrested. Before he made it to the jail, the Feds had it in print that he was an escapee from a murder conviction in Maryland. It only takes a few minutes and even LA takes six months to do a background check for a permit.

Thanks for posting such an informative post. Many here will find it interesting as well.

 

[cwo4uscgret]

actually Hook...

This I think might be the significant point ... it will be a jury that decides if you were put in "immediate and reasonable fear of life and limb", not your personal belief. If the DA thinks he can convince a jury, I doubt it matters what you think.

It will be me who decides that; now a jury may be involved in determining if it was correct!

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I like your sources for information. They are always in good readable form.

Who knows what the suspensions are for? Most notably around here is failure to notify of a change of address. What shocked me is the number of felony convictions that caused loss of permits. As to felony arrests, they are often pled down and those that stick will usually take another year to find their way to the stats.

TN has a lot better record of revokes and suspensions than does LA.

Yet I do not buy the lag time by the Feds. One call, that's all. Suppose someone is a felon and gets stopped. Not sure about TN but LA types it in and the Feds sends it back in minutes. Now if there is something typed wrong or otherwise like a false name, then there may be a delay.

Yrs ago, we had a man get in trouble in a bar. He was arrested. Before he made it to the jail, the Feds had it in print that he was an escapee from a murder conviction in Maryland. It only takes a few minutes and even LA takes six months to do a background check for a permit.

Thanks for posting such an informative post. Many here will find it interesting as well.

Thanks for kind words.

I don't know other than what I read there, but I would not be surprised if the Feds are taking months to do something that should only take a minute like you say. The standard wait for a Tax Stamp is 3-6 months which I have the pleasure of paying $200. The paperwork is not a big deal, it really isn't much more complicated than a form 4473. That said, I'll give the Feds credit for being very quick at cashing the $200 check.