Ball and Caps?

[Kurusu]

This is GREAT! I have been wanting to shoot MLAIC style for years. (The Olympic pistol events have been emasculated, the bullseye scene is red dot-1911 oriented, so there's not much left which combines precision and martial arms.) There is very little interest stateside. Certainly nothing closely local. The Pietta and Uberti stuff seems worthless for this type of precision, at least out of the box. Soft lockwork parts, poor tolerances, etc...
I understand Pedersoli uses a Uberti frame as their basic platform, but I'm not positive.
But, I have never seen a Pedersoli, nor a Hege or the now discontinued Feinwerkbau Rogers & Spencer. Cabelas, despite being a Pedersoli dealer, won't special order one for me, now that they've been taken over by Bass.
Nick, any comments on the relative merits? I'd like to know before plunking down a grand for something sight unseen!

Nice shooting!

Jim

MLAIC is great. And there are a lot of disciplines in which to compete.

I have competed in:

"Mariete" (for replica revolvers at 25 meters, there is a separate event for originals the discipline is called Colt and you can compete in both if you have both originals and replicas)

"Donald Malson" (for revolver at 50 meters there are separate events an for originals and for replicas. You will have to use the same revolver you used either in "Mariete" or in "Colt")

"Kuchenreuter" (for percussion single shot pistols with rifled barrels. There is an original and a replica event)

"Comminazo" (for flintlock pistols smoothbore only at 25 meters, again 2 separate events available)

"Vetterli" (for percussion rifles at 50 meters it has to be a front loader Sharps type rifles are not accepted. Again originals and replicas events available)

I started competing with a Uberti, Pedersoli is better and I don't think thy use an Uberti frame, the Uberti grip is smaller.

Comparison

The Rogers & Spencers from Feinwerkbau are also very good.

If I was in the States I would try to get originals. You can find Rogers & Spencers in very good condition (they dominate the "Colt" match) because they were never issued.

 

[6string]

No, an Uberti.

Wow, Looks good. The finish has a nice tone, and I don't see the usual smattering of proof marks.
Did you do any work with on it?

 

[6string]

MLAIC is great. And there are a lot of disciplines in which to compete.

I have competed in:

"Mariete" (for replica revolvers at 25 meters, there is a separate event for originals the discipline is called Colt and you can compete in both if you have both originals and replicas)

"Donald Malson" (for revolver at 50 meters there are separate events an for originals and for replicas. You will have to use the same revolver you used either in "Mariete" or in "Colt")

"Kuchenreuter" (for percussion single shot pistols with rifled barrels. There is an original and a replica event)

"Comminazo" (for flintlock pistols smoothbore only at 25 meters, again 2 separate events available)

"Vetterli" (for percussion rifles at 50 meters it has to be a front loader Sharps type rifles are not accepted. Again originals and replicas events available)

I started competing with a Uberti, Pedersoli is better and I don't think thy use an Uberti frame, the Uberti grip is smaller.

Comparison

The Rogers & Spencers from Feinwerkbau are also very good.

If I was in the States I would try to get originals. You can find Rogers & Spencers in very good condition (they dominate the "Colt" match) because they were never issued.

Thank you for the kindness of your reply. MLAIC have a well thought out classification system for their matches. Interesting that you suggest going for originals stateside, as I've heard that especially for the single shot events, originals in Europe are a relatively good buy.
The one Hege Remington replica I saw advertised sold pretty close ($2000) to what an original Rogers & Spencer in good, shootable condition often costs. Original Colts seem to be a poor choice, given some of the competitive shortcomings and very high cost. Although the MLAIC open top revolver class does level the field a bit.
It's good to know that someone active in this interesting field has a good presence on the forum.

Thanks again,
Jim

 

[S&WsRsweet]

Again the forum members here have far exceeded the other gun forums on a subject other than S&W brand firearms. You guys truly never cease to bring it .Oh yea and your gun and shootings pictures are great also.

 

[JayFramer]

Again the forum members here have far exceeded the other gun forums on a subject other than S&W brand firearms. You guys truly never cease to bring it .Oh yea and your gun and shootings pictures are great also.

I agree.

Glad to see some like to shoot the ball and cap revolvers. Some also appear to like cap and ball revolvers, too!

Thinking my next gun will be a .36 caliber Navy. Should make a good rabbit pistol.

 

[Andyd]

....
But, I have never seen a Pedersoli, nor a Hege or the now discontinued Feinwerkbau Rogers & Spencer. ...

Nice shooting!

Jim

Hege is the German importer for Uberti for many decades. I bought a Hege Uberti 1862 Reb Confederate Army back in 1976 and played and shot a lot with it. I gave it to my youngest son, who never shot it since but my .36 Navy is also stamped Original Hege Uberti. The Remington is made by Armi San Paolo and seems to hold up well.




a.Open Top Revolvers | HEGE Jagd & Sport

 

[Neversink n Klapperthal]

this has rekindled my interest again

 

[brucev]

Re: Kerusu. Video. Outstanding! Very excellent in every respect. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[Kurusu]

Re: Kerusu. Video. Outstanding! Very excellent in every respect. Sincerely. bruce.

I thank you. Both in my name (the mere actor) and in the name of my fellow shooter Pereira Mateus, who actually made and posted the video on youtube.

 

[RudyN]

That is a very good video. I have several reproduction cap and ball revolvers along with an original 1858 Remington Revolver and an original 1864 Burnside Carbine. I like to shoot the reproductions, but have not shot the originals.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[mr-mom]

I have several reproduction C&B pistols and one original second generation Colt. I've shot all of them a bunch and enjoy every time I have an opportunity to do so. Like some others, I'm partial to real black powder and was fortunate to stock up on it years ago before it got scarce. Just might head to the range this week and dirty my hands with some old-time shooting.
Dave
SWCA #2778

 

[Muley Gil]

This is GREAT! I have been wanting to shoot MLAIC style for years. (The Olympic pistol events have been emasculated, the bullseye scene is red dot-1911 oriented, so there's not much left which combines precision and martial arms.) There is very little interest stateside. Certainly nothing closely local. The Pietta and Uberti stuff seems worthless for this type of precision, at least out of the box. Soft lockwork parts, poor tolerances, etc...
I understand Pedersoli uses a Uberti frame as their basic platform, but I'm not positive.
But, I have never seen a Pedersoli, nor a Hege or the now discontinued Feinwerkbau Rogers & Spencer. Cabelas, despite being a Pedersoli dealer, won't special order one for me, now that they've been taken over by Bass.
Nick, any comments on the relative merits? I'd like to know before plunking down a grand for something sight unseen!

Nice shooting!

Jim

You need to join the North-South Skirmish Association or at the least, read their Classified ads. A number of N_SSA members also shoot in the international muzzle loading matches. There are units near you and we do shoot revolvers in individual and team matches. I attended my first skirmish in 1969 and my dad & I joined in 1970. Unfortunately, there was little interest in skirmishing when I lived in Alabama and I dropped out in the mid '70s. Once I moved back to Virginia in '01, I started back in N-SSA competition again.

We are NOT reenacting battles. We target shoot using replica and original firearms from the War or Northern Aggression.

I have seen Hege and other accurized revolvers for sale in our Bulletin Board:

North-South Skirmish Association

 

[6string]

Hege is the German importer for Uberti for many decades. I bought a Hege Uberti 1862 Reb Confederate Army back in 1976 and played and shot a lot with it. I gave it to my youngest son, who never shot it since but my .36 Navy is also stamped Original Hege Uberti. The Remington is made by Armi San Paolo and seems to hold up well.




a.Open Top Revolvers | HEGE Jagd & Sport

Hi,
You got me wondering about Hege. They distribute Uberti, but in case anyone is curious about such things, they make (or have made for them) a match grade version of the Rogers & Spencer called the "Army Match Maximum". It is built in small, limited runs on occasion. Price varies with the exchange rate, but is typically about $2000. It is rarely seen in the USA, but it is rule compliant with N-SSA and MLAIC.
The Feinwerkbau version of the same model uses many of the same parts. They differ in the barrels (Feinwerkbau uses Lothar Walther) and replacement lockwork parts. But, they are similar in price. Neil Stepp used to import the FWB.
The Pedersoli match Remington 1858 that Kurusu uses in his video is probably the best deal in a truly match grade BP revolver.

But, I gotta say, pretty much all the above posts show some beautiful revolvers! Lots of nice photography too!

Jim

 

[walnutred]

Not to hijack a thread but if you shoot BP revolvers you will eventually have to replace a broken hand spring. As I just replaced one on a repro 58 Remington I decided to take a picture. This how I do it, though obviously I did not think up the idea on my own.

For quite some time I've used office type spring binder clips to fabricate small hand springs. Some people use a Dremel cut off wheel to cut out the spring blank but I cut them by hand to avoid changing the temper. I drill a hole in a piece of scrap wood, hard wood works best. Center the hand over the hole and use the new spring to drive out the stub of the old spring.A little light peaning on the sides of the hand and you're done.

I like replacing the spring rather than buying a new hand/spring combo because this saves having to fit a new hand. If you do an internet search some people use bobby pins but I find the office spring clips to be easier to locate and you can get a bunch of springs out of one clip.

 

[Kurusu]

Hi,
You got me wondering about Hege. They distribute Uberti, but in case anyone is curious about such things, they make (or have made for them) a match grade version of the Rogers & Spencer called the "Army Match Maximum". It is built in small, limited runs on occasion. Price varies with the exchange rate, but is typically about $2000. It is rarely seen in the USA, but it is rule compliant with N-SSA and MLIAC.
The Feinwerkbau version of the same model uses many of the same parts. They differ in the barrels (Feinwerkbau uses Lothar Walther) and replacement lockwork parts. But, they are similar in price. Neil Stepp used to import the FWB.
The Pedersoli match Remington 1858 that Kurusu uses in his video is probably the best deal in a truly match grade BP revolver.

But, I gotta say, pretty much all the above posts show some beautiful revolvers! Lots of nice photography too!

Jim

There used to be a very high quality Hege-Remington Maximum revolver aimed at MLAIC competitions. In the 2006 World Championship held in Bordeaux France, a member of my team was the Mariete World Champion using one. He made 98 out of the possible 100.

 

[Neversink n Klapperthal]

Not to hijack a thread but if you shoot BP revolvers you will eventually have to replace a broken hand spring. As I just replaced one on a repro 58 Remington I decided to take a picture. This how I do it, though obviously I did not think up the idea on my own.

For quite some time I've used office type spring binder clips to fabricate small hand springs. Some people use a Dremel cut off wheel to cut out the spring blank but I cut them by hand to avoid changing the temper. I drill a hole in a piece of scrap wood, hard wood works best. Center the hand over the hole and use the new spring to drive out the stub of the old spring.A little light peaning on the sides of the hand and you're done.

I like replacing the spring rather than buying a new hand/spring combo because this saves having to fit a new hand. If you do an internet search some people use bobby pins but I find the office spring clips to be easier to locate and you can get a bunch of springs out of one clip.

your exactly right about the hapinnd spring. I had mine break about 1975. I used a bobby pin which I cut off. It was a perfect fit ,and never left me down

 

[JohnRippert]

Back in the late '90s I used to shoot this one a fair bit. Mostly sits in the holster on the shelf these days.

 

[P.44]

1. To Kurusu:
Good shooting, GREAT video and -as always- informative post(s) !

2. To/for 6string:
Some pics of a HEGE (HEbsackerGErmany) "ARMY MATCH", the forerunner
of the later "Maximum" (that was also a Remington replica !)

Jim,
if you need / want more infos about HEGE,
feel free to pm me...

P.44

 

[Kurusu]

1. To Kurusu:
Good shooting, GREAT video and -as always- informative post(s) !

2. To/for 6string:
Some pics of a HEGE (HEbsackerGErmany) "ARMY MATCH", the forerunner
of the later "Maximum" (that was also a Remington replica !)

Jim,
if you need / want more infos about HEGE,
feel free to pm me...

P.44

Thank you.

Excellent shooting of your part.

We must have crossed paths. Right?

 

[6string]

Don't shoot it much. Pain to clean and clean you must.

On the flip side, think of all the time you save not having to prep your fired brass (depriming, tumbling, inspecting, etc) before reloading!

Jim

PS: this is such a great thread, just gave it a 5 star rating.....
Great stuff from everyone.
Thanks especially to Kurusu, Andyd, and Muley Gil, P44

 

[P.44]

Kurusu,
1. Thanks for your kindly compliment.
2. I'm living in WW...nah, not Wild West, but here:
Westerwald - Wikipedia
I never made it to Portugal and I did only one "International Shooting"
in the middle/late 1990's when some friends took me with to one of this nice
"Davy Crockett Shootings" in the Netherlands:
We won the Revolver Team discipline and I -having a good day- finished 1. with
the HEGE with 97 / 100 (This good old rules: No sighters, 13 shot (including loadig)
in 30minutes, best 10 shots counting for the result).

But perhaps...did you ever visited Düren
CJS D"uren e.V. - Bildliches
and/or Pforzheim ?
Schiessanlage

P.44

 

[6string]

Here's Mr. Pedersoli

YouTube

Telling all about their Custom Target Remington

 

[Kurusu]

Kurusu,
1. Thanks for your kindly compliment.
2. I'm living in WW...nah, not Wild West, but here:
Westerwald - Wikipedia
I never made it to Portugal and I did only one "International Shooting"
in the middle/late 1990's when some friends took me with to one of this nice
"Davy Crockett Shootings" in the Netherlands:
We won the Revolver Team discipline and I -having a good day- finished 1. with
the HEGE with 97 / 100 (This good old rules: No sighters, 13 shot (including loadig)
in 30minutes, best 10 shots counting for the result).

But perhaps...did you ever visited Düren
CJS D"uren e.V. - Bildliches
and/or Pforzheim ?
Schiessanlage

P.44

Didn't go to Pforzheim 2012. My father passed in November 2011and I didn't compete in 2012.

Too bad you didn't make it to Barcelos 2010. The World Champion scored 96.

About the scoring. You forgot to mention, as did I, that you only count the higher mark if your impact is at least half above the scoring ring.

 

[Kurusu]

Here's Mr. Pedersoli

YouTube

Telling all about their Custom Target Remington

That's the "young" Mr.Pedersoli. I met him in 2010.

Met the "older" Mr. Pedersoli (Pier Angelo) in 2006.

 

[6string]

You need to join the North-South Skirmish Association or at the least, read their Classified ads. A number of N_SSA members also shoot in the international muzzle loading matches. There are units near you and we do shoot revolvers in individual and team matches. I attended my first skirmish in 1969 and my dad & I joined in 1970. Unfortunately, there was little interest in skirmishing when I lived in Alabama and I dropped out in the mid '70s. Once I moved back to Virginia in '01, I started back in N-SSA competition again.

We are NOT reenacting battles. We target shoot using replica and original firearms from the War or Northern Aggression.

I have seen Hege and other accurized revolvers for sale in our Bulletin Board:

North-South Skirmish Association

Thanks for the info. My wife's family is from PA. We drive past Winchester, VA close to where they do a national N-SAA event each year. Always seem to miss the schedule.

 

[P.44]

Kurusu,
1. Sorry for your loss. My father died last year..

2. My last visit in Pforzheim (German Black Powder Championship) was in 2009. In 2010
I seriously damaged my strong side shoulder. So I fear, my better shooting days are over.

3. So (perhaps) some nicer things. Just (re-)found some older pics (Not my Manton & Not my car !):
One Saturday at my shooting club, me shooting with the Hämmerli 208 there was a a nice guy with a
very nice pistol...
A Manton (OK, "only" a HEGE replica) flintlock !
I put a new target out when he had shot his "sighters" and after he had finished his 15 shot programm
he told me:"I have 3 loads over... Do you want to try ?"
Of course I wanted (...have not seen a Manton in the last 10 - 15 years, long out of production).

First shot...a bit low ("in the white"), 2 + 3 shot: 8 and 9 (also low)...but with a bit adjustment:
The HEGE Manton should shoot like the HEGE Remington  

I had not seen a Morgan + 8 since the 1980's. So I had to took a closer look...But I did not got offered,
to try out the car .

P.44

 

[StrawHat]

...Even though this one is hanging over my fireplace, it uses caps and balls, too.

...

Nice little rifle. Who made it? For a while that style was imported by Replica Arms of Marietta Ohio. It was a factory copy of a rifle built by Cecil Brooks.

Kevin

 

[Muley Gil]

Thanks for the info. My wife's family is from PA. We drive past Winchester, VA close to where they do a national N-SAA event each year. Always seem to miss the schedule.

There are actually two Nationals held at Fort Shenandoah, which is the home range of the N-SSA. The spring National is held the 3rd weekend of May and the fall National is held the 1st weekend in October. The Nationals are the largest skirmishes held with lots of sutlers (vendors). There are also regional skirmishes held there, as well as throughout the country.

If you go back to the link I posted, there is a menu at the top. The skirmish calendar shows when and where the local shoots are held. Probably the closest skirmish to you would be in Statesville NC. The nice thing are about the local skirmishes is that interested people are allowed to shoot, which isn't possible at the Nationals.

 

[smoothshooter]

Shoot one of several all the time.
Thousands of rounds.

 

[Kurusu]

P.44,

1 Sorry for your loss.

2 My eyes are just getting older.

3 Beautiful Manton and beautiful Morgan. Too bad they aren't yours. Maybe you can fix that.

4 I have a Manton flintlock replica but it's from ARSA. Not as beautiful as the Hege. But shoots great. The lock is well designed and as long as the flint holds it's edge the ignition time is quite fast.