Anything I should know, what to do, what not to do? I'm self employed, have been for > 10 years, without insurance. Had a real bad heart attack this summer, spent almost a month in the hospital, and the bills are just too much. Way too much. Going to lose the house I think, things are getting bad. I can currently afford an attorney for the bankruptcy, but not for long. Trying not to sell my guns, can't bring myself to that. Won't make much difference anyway. Any advice much appreciated. Thanks.
Bankruptcy Advice Needed
- Thread starter rondo
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dougb1946
Member
It's not a do-it-yourself job. Get a lawyer. Maybe loan a gun or two to a relative and forget to mention it when filing. Some property is protected -usually clothing, personals. Brandy may help some.
Best of luck. You will recover eventually, but it is confusing and painful to go through.
Best of luck. You will recover eventually, but it is confusing and painful to go through.
MSgtJimmy
Member
I paid $750 to file Chapter 7 in 2004. One trip to the lawyer's office, plus a couple of phone calls and one appearance before some type of official and it was done. I don't regret it one bit because it came during a life-threatening illness with multiple surgeries. A year later, my credit score was 660, it's now around 730. I bought a house last year. It sounds like it is what you need to do. Maybe consider parting with your least favorite guns to fund the lawyer. You can always buy replacements once things have improved.
Texas Star
US Veteran
First, do nothing while you're so depressed. Try to think what to do while in a relatively positive mood. Check the Net for advice and get a book that outlines what to do.
Call several attorneys and see which seems the most candid and the best fit for your situation. Their fees may vary widely.
Your guns will have to go, in all likilihood. Depending on state laws, you may be able to keep one or more as part of your homestead. I think Texas allows two firearms. Check that homestead exemption, if any, right away. You may be able to retain more than you think.
I recall that a well known gun writer went bankrupt some years ago when his livestock business failed. It can happen to many, and I considered it at one time when out of a job. I did research the matter to a considerable extent.
In your case, you will have to balance the strain of a bankruptcy against the hassle of bill collectors constantly hounding you and maybe suing for debts that can take what you own, anyway. In view of your heart attack, that hassle may trigger another. You don't need that! Ask your doctor about the risk, but I bet it's there.
Many famous people have had to take bankruptcy. Don't let the guilt and strain ruin your health at this critical time.
Immediately, learn what the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will allow collectors to do. Many (most?) will routinely lie about their power and intentions. You can send them a notice to Cease and Desist letter, and can tell them that if they do persist, you will complain to the FTC and to your state's atty. general. However,that may trigger immediate suits, so ask a lawyer who specializes in such issues.
If your doctor will give you a letter stating that collection efforts may imperil your heart, sendng a copy to each collector may cause them to ease off a bit, fearing liability if you do have complications that could be laid at their door.
I was told that once you arrange to file for bankruptcy, the atty. handling the case will notify collectors, and that they must then cease activity. That alone could save your life, if stress is a factor, and I'm sure that it is.
Because this is such an embarrassing issue,I don't know if anyone who has been through it will post here. But it happens to a lot of perfectly good people who hit a run of really bad luck.
I will pray that you find the right solution and that your health improves. I trust that others here will join in that effort, even if they never tell you. May God bless and protect you at this awful time, and restore your health and your hope for a brighter future.
The sooner you learn where you stand and what you can keep, that is progress.
Nothing in this post is intended to represent actual legal advice, and it should not be construed as such. I am not a lawyer, just someone who went partway down the road that you may have to travel. But the news may be better than you fear, once you research the matter.
Call several attorneys and see which seems the most candid and the best fit for your situation. Their fees may vary widely.
Your guns will have to go, in all likilihood. Depending on state laws, you may be able to keep one or more as part of your homestead. I think Texas allows two firearms. Check that homestead exemption, if any, right away. You may be able to retain more than you think.
I recall that a well known gun writer went bankrupt some years ago when his livestock business failed. It can happen to many, and I considered it at one time when out of a job. I did research the matter to a considerable extent.
In your case, you will have to balance the strain of a bankruptcy against the hassle of bill collectors constantly hounding you and maybe suing for debts that can take what you own, anyway. In view of your heart attack, that hassle may trigger another. You don't need that! Ask your doctor about the risk, but I bet it's there.
Many famous people have had to take bankruptcy. Don't let the guilt and strain ruin your health at this critical time.
Immediately, learn what the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will allow collectors to do. Many (most?) will routinely lie about their power and intentions. You can send them a notice to Cease and Desist letter, and can tell them that if they do persist, you will complain to the FTC and to your state's atty. general. However,that may trigger immediate suits, so ask a lawyer who specializes in such issues.
If your doctor will give you a letter stating that collection efforts may imperil your heart, sendng a copy to each collector may cause them to ease off a bit, fearing liability if you do have complications that could be laid at their door.
I was told that once you arrange to file for bankruptcy, the atty. handling the case will notify collectors, and that they must then cease activity. That alone could save your life, if stress is a factor, and I'm sure that it is.
Because this is such an embarrassing issue,I don't know if anyone who has been through it will post here. But it happens to a lot of perfectly good people who hit a run of really bad luck.
I will pray that you find the right solution and that your health improves. I trust that others here will join in that effort, even if they never tell you. May God bless and protect you at this awful time, and restore your health and your hope for a brighter future.
The sooner you learn where you stand and what you can keep, that is progress.
Nothing in this post is intended to represent actual legal advice, and it should not be construed as such. I am not a lawyer, just someone who went partway down the road that you may have to travel. But the news may be better than you fear, once you research the matter.
Indiana George
US Veteran
Good luck to you, Rondo.
With the economy as it is, a great many are, or have been in a similar situation.
With the economy as it is, a great many are, or have been in a similar situation.
GatorFarmer
Member
I don't know. If all you owe is hospital bills, just don't pay them. It will take a while, if ever, for them to get around to suing you, getting a judgement, etc. So don't become too depressed - familiarize yourself with your state's homestead exemptions btw, even if someone gets a judgement there are many things you can keep - same with bankruptcy. In many states, you can actually exempt a number of your guns, either as a specific category or with a wild card exemption. If you are otherwise solvent - ie making enough money to pay your house, utlities and eat if you do not pay your medical bills, then like as not bankruptcy may not be the best option.
Of course if you just don't have the money to pay your house, then you just don't have the money.... And whoever you owe that money to will eventually take the house. Many banks will work with you to some extent, since they've already got enough foreclosed houses sitting around.
A lawyer can give you advice as to what will kill your credit more - unpaid medical bills or discharging them in a bankruptcy. Since a bankruptcy will also clear up any judgements against you, well there's really no rush - let your creditors expend time and legal fees if they want.
Meanwhile, also examine what they say you owe. Many times hospital bills are full of errors, false charges, etc. Examine the whole thing in detail. Debt collectors will call and hound you, but you can use it as a chance to make new friends by asking them if they like gladiator movies, what they are wearing, have they ever tried the rough trade in Cairo, etc. This will lead to all sorts of fun conversations with strangers.
Of course if you just don't have the money to pay your house, then you just don't have the money.... And whoever you owe that money to will eventually take the house. Many banks will work with you to some extent, since they've already got enough foreclosed houses sitting around.
A lawyer can give you advice as to what will kill your credit more - unpaid medical bills or discharging them in a bankruptcy. Since a bankruptcy will also clear up any judgements against you, well there's really no rush - let your creditors expend time and legal fees if they want.
Meanwhile, also examine what they say you owe. Many times hospital bills are full of errors, false charges, etc. Examine the whole thing in detail. Debt collectors will call and hound you, but you can use it as a chance to make new friends by asking them if they like gladiator movies, what they are wearing, have they ever tried the rough trade in Cairo, etc. This will lead to all sorts of fun conversations with strangers.
Rondo, sorry to hear that.
My wife and I went through bankruptcy several years ago after she couldn't work.
We didn't have to pay the attorney up front. His fees were added to the monthly payments we made to the court.
One of the first things your attorney will do is send a letter to each creditor. The creditors will then stop calling you. If not, inform them that you are in the process of filing bankruptcy and give them your attorney's name and number.
When you go see the attorney, be prepared. Have the name, address, and amount owed of all your creditors. You and your attorney will have to see just how much you owe and figure out a payment plan. You pay the court and they pay your creditors.
When you go to Federal Bankruptcy court with your attorney, it WILL be embarrassing. The court room is full of people filing bankruptcy. Nothing is private. You have to talk to the judge with everyone else is the room. I think they do this on purpose. Your attorney should prepare you for this.
During our bankruptcy my wife found a job and we paid off our debt a year early.
It's not the end of the world. We bought a new car a year after our bankruptcy was discharged.
Good luck.
"Get a lawyer" is some good advice, it's also the worst advice.
Any lawyer can file a chapter 7 bankruptcy for you and this is where many people that I know personally lost their houses and a lot more, and I was almost one of them. Filing chapter 7 is easy, but it may not be the best action to take. Many attorneys that are doing chapter 7s around here don't know a thing about bankruptcy laws, in fact, I found out the one I went to first didn't even know how to fill out the paper work.
So I found another one that specialized in bankruptcy laws and would not do anything else. He told me that if I had done what the first attorney had told me, I would have lost my house because of the amount of equity that I had in it. I also got to keep all my guns which the first guy didn't know how to do.
I believe some laws have changed since I finished mine, but it helps if you hadn't made any large value purchases in the last six months, especially on credit.
And if it helps, when we went to "court" we went in one at a time, with our attorneys. And the court was held at a local university in a small lecture hall.
Good luck.
Any lawyer can file a chapter 7 bankruptcy for you and this is where many people that I know personally lost their houses and a lot more, and I was almost one of them. Filing chapter 7 is easy, but it may not be the best action to take. Many attorneys that are doing chapter 7s around here don't know a thing about bankruptcy laws, in fact, I found out the one I went to first didn't even know how to fill out the paper work.
So I found another one that specialized in bankruptcy laws and would not do anything else. He told me that if I had done what the first attorney had told me, I would have lost my house because of the amount of equity that I had in it. I also got to keep all my guns which the first guy didn't know how to do.
I believe some laws have changed since I finished mine, but it helps if you hadn't made any large value purchases in the last six months, especially on credit.
And if it helps, when we went to "court" we went in one at a time, with our attorneys. And the court was held at a local university in a small lecture hall.
Good luck.
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Texas Star
US Veteran
I think that Kanewpaddle is talking about Chapter 13. You may want to discharge all debts via what I think is Chapter 7. Otherwise, you may be paying for a long time when you need that money to recover and even to eat and pay essential bills like your home and car, which can be exempted from other proceedings in some states.
Your income and health will determine which course is best for you. Just weigh all options befor panicking and doing anything too soon. Especially doubt anything that a collector says, unless you can confirm it independently.
Some of those lowlifes will even tell you that we still have debtors' prisons and that the sheriff is about to arrest you. Be aware that on old bills, even discussing them with a collector may re-date the debt, which otherwise might pass the statute of limitations for them filing suit.
I agree with Gator Farmer that you need to carefully examine all medical bills, in particular. Hospitals are notorious for overcharging and for billing errors.
Your income and health will determine which course is best for you. Just weigh all options befor panicking and doing anything too soon. Especially doubt anything that a collector says, unless you can confirm it independently.
Some of those lowlifes will even tell you that we still have debtors' prisons and that the sheriff is about to arrest you. Be aware that on old bills, even discussing them with a collector may re-date the debt, which otherwise might pass the statute of limitations for them filing suit.
I agree with Gator Farmer that you need to carefully examine all medical bills, in particular. Hospitals are notorious for overcharging and for billing errors.
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gunlovingirl
Member
My prayers for your health and your financial situation.
all sounds like good advise to me, my 2 cents simply says get a lawyer and don,t sell your guns it won't get you out of debt and just be wasted money with nithing to show for it
Good Luck and times will get better with a new start just remember its only stuff and you can get more stuff
Good Luck and times will get better with a new start just remember its only stuff and you can get more stuff
nogoodnamesleft
Member
Everything is going to work out just fine and it is NOT the end of the world, my friend. HEALTH is number one, and not much else matters.
Hide what you've got to hide, but you will come out fine and this will all be a memory soon.
Best,
nogoodnamesleft
Hide what you've got to hide, but you will come out fine and this will all be a memory soon.
Best,
nogoodnamesleft
DeathGrip
US Veteran
What she said.
Frank46
US Veteran
Had a angiogram done and the hospital charged me $20,000 for it. I called them and was told don't worry about it your insurance will cover it. Called my health care provider and told them what I was told. They said don't worry we'll take care of it. Later received a statement from health care provider that the procedure only cost $1200. So yes check your bills as the wife got charged money for feminine napkins when she didn't even need them. Frank
CelticSire
US Veteran
Find an attorney that specializes in bankruptcy, and is very knowledgeable about the different types, i.e. Chapters. Talk to several and find that one that is willing to do what is best for YOU, not the attorney or the creditors. Nobody wins in this situation, but everybody involved can get some satisfaction, and remember that your health is most important. Also, medical bills usually don't go on a credit report until they've been turned over for collection. See if the hospital is willing to work with you on an affordable payment plan.
Dennis The B
US Veteran
Before you do...
...anything, get back to your doctor, and get him/her to refer you to a psychiatrist. With what has gone on, you may very well be suffering from depression. Even though it may only be temporary, you need to be treated. Medication may, or may not, be needed. But, get to the doctor and find out.
Depression causes people to make bad decisions with long-term detrimental consequences. And depression is not always that dark outlook, can't get out of bed and face the world event. It manifests itself in several ways, most of which we don't recognize.
Your mental and physical health have to come first.
Good luck.
...anything, get back to your doctor, and get him/her to refer you to a psychiatrist. With what has gone on, you may very well be suffering from depression. Even though it may only be temporary, you need to be treated. Medication may, or may not, be needed. But, get to the doctor and find out.
Depression causes people to make bad decisions with long-term detrimental consequences. And depression is not always that dark outlook, can't get out of bed and face the world event. It manifests itself in several ways, most of which we don't recognize.
Your mental and physical health have to come first.
Good luck.
I am taking Bankruptcy Law this semester and I've learned a few things. I'm also taking Legal Ethics, so I'm not going to offer legal advice, either.
Chapter 7 is known as "Liquidation", in which a petition for bankruptcy is filed on behalf of a client. The "estate" is created and all attempts by creditors to collect is stopped while the value of the estate is assessed. The ultimate goal is to liquidate as much of the estate as possible and pay the creditors off with the proceeds. Selling the house, investments(yes, guns, too..)stocks, and available cash is the usual outcome, with the creditors taking less than owed.
Chapter 13 is known as a repayment plan, which is used when a debtor has steady income. As with a Chapter 7 an estate is created and value is assessed. A repayment plan is the usual outcome, with a repayment schedule of 3 to 5 years. Some items that are liquidated in a Chapter 7 can be kept in a Chapter 13.
Only a good attorney who specializes in bankruptcy law can give the best advice for you. The upfront fees in a Chapter 13 are lower, but the fees come out of the monthly payments, and are usually higher than the total fees in a Chapter 7.
No matter what anyone tells you, both will damage your credit rating for several years, and one is not better than the other in that respect. Do a lot of homework on bankruptcy attorneys in your area before hiring one, but in your case, it might do well to think of an lawyer to be an investment.
The emotions surrounding bankruptcy are the hardest part of it all. You have not failed, nor are you a bum who wants out of the situation as cheaply as possible. Life happens, and bankruptcy is the best solution, though not the only one, for many people in this country.
Good luck.
Chapter 7 is known as "Liquidation", in which a petition for bankruptcy is filed on behalf of a client. The "estate" is created and all attempts by creditors to collect is stopped while the value of the estate is assessed. The ultimate goal is to liquidate as much of the estate as possible and pay the creditors off with the proceeds. Selling the house, investments(yes, guns, too..)stocks, and available cash is the usual outcome, with the creditors taking less than owed.
Chapter 13 is known as a repayment plan, which is used when a debtor has steady income. As with a Chapter 7 an estate is created and value is assessed. A repayment plan is the usual outcome, with a repayment schedule of 3 to 5 years. Some items that are liquidated in a Chapter 7 can be kept in a Chapter 13.
Only a good attorney who specializes in bankruptcy law can give the best advice for you. The upfront fees in a Chapter 13 are lower, but the fees come out of the monthly payments, and are usually higher than the total fees in a Chapter 7.
No matter what anyone tells you, both will damage your credit rating for several years, and one is not better than the other in that respect. Do a lot of homework on bankruptcy attorneys in your area before hiring one, but in your case, it might do well to think of an lawyer to be an investment.
The emotions surrounding bankruptcy are the hardest part of it all. You have not failed, nor are you a bum who wants out of the situation as cheaply as possible. Life happens, and bankruptcy is the best solution, though not the only one, for many people in this country.
Good luck.
Magnumdood
Member
"Hiding" things.
I just finished my first year of a 5-year Chapter 13 plan. I found a very good attorney who has a good working relationship with the bankruptcy trustee. I don't know how it works in your state, but in Illinois, if you hide any assets its felony fraud. With that said, if they had come for my guns I would have probably already moved them and told the trustee I had sold everything I had several years ago to try and pay my creditors. Again, in this state, they want to know if you've sold anything over $200.00 in the last 6 months, or transferred (hid) anything of value >$200 in the last 6 months.
My attorney filed my Chapter 13 using the "means" test. We put together an exhaustive list of all of our assets and my wife's salary and submitted a document to the bankruptcy trustee. He can approve or modify the plan as he sees fit. The good thing about the "means" test is if my wife lost her job too, we could go back before the court and examine our means to pay and adjust the monthly payment accordingly.
It is a trying process, but I didn't feel any embarrassment. I've been unemployed for 3 years now. I exhausted all my unemployment benefits (which were about 1/4 of what I made) and the creditors had begun filing suits. But, once I filed for bankruptcy I was "decision proof" and each creditor is apportioned some of my monthly payment until my bankruptcy is discharged in 4 years. Had I waited, and started getting sued, in Illinois they can get just about everything of value. I didn't ask because I wasn't going to sit back and watch someone buy my guns for pennies on the dollar in an estate sale. The creditors practice predatory lending, I practice bankruptcy.
I just finished my first year of a 5-year Chapter 13 plan. I found a very good attorney who has a good working relationship with the bankruptcy trustee. I don't know how it works in your state, but in Illinois, if you hide any assets its felony fraud. With that said, if they had come for my guns I would have probably already moved them and told the trustee I had sold everything I had several years ago to try and pay my creditors. Again, in this state, they want to know if you've sold anything over $200.00 in the last 6 months, or transferred (hid) anything of value >$200 in the last 6 months.
My attorney filed my Chapter 13 using the "means" test. We put together an exhaustive list of all of our assets and my wife's salary and submitted a document to the bankruptcy trustee. He can approve or modify the plan as he sees fit. The good thing about the "means" test is if my wife lost her job too, we could go back before the court and examine our means to pay and adjust the monthly payment accordingly.
It is a trying process, but I didn't feel any embarrassment. I've been unemployed for 3 years now. I exhausted all my unemployment benefits (which were about 1/4 of what I made) and the creditors had begun filing suits. But, once I filed for bankruptcy I was "decision proof" and each creditor is apportioned some of my monthly payment until my bankruptcy is discharged in 4 years. Had I waited, and started getting sued, in Illinois they can get just about everything of value. I didn't ask because I wasn't going to sit back and watch someone buy my guns for pennies on the dollar in an estate sale. The creditors practice predatory lending, I practice bankruptcy.
Right on, Dood...
I've taken several lengthy tests in the past few weeks on Chapter 7 and 13 means tests, and they have a lot of blanks to fill!!
Bankruptcy is big-time, but it's most often a fresh start, not the end of the world.
I've taken several lengthy tests in the past few weeks on Chapter 7 and 13 means tests, and they have a lot of blanks to fill!!
Bankruptcy is big-time, but it's most often a fresh start, not the end of the world.
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