In the 150 year history of Yellowstone park bears have killed 8 people, 1 more than falling trees (7). What is a good tree gun?
Bear Attacks
- Thread starter Hawg Rider
- Start date
I would think something with a walnut stock.
twodog max
Member
I live in black bear country. I would not have it any other way. Before I retired I was a wildlife biologist and in my 36 years I handled hundreds of bears for all sorts of reasons. Good and bad. Most problems I encountered were from people engaging in dumb activities around homes. Such as feeding bears then when it got out of hand expecting someone to fix their self created problem. Bad encounters with bears in the woods are most notable due to the rarity of these occurrences.
Don't do stupid stuff and the odds of problems with bears is very small.
Don't do stupid stuff and the odds of problems with bears is very small.
Grizzly bears occasionally wander near where I live. I am more apt to run into one in a couple areas I hunt in. But, I am more apt to have a tree blow over on me or get ran over by a herd of elk or stomped by a moose. But, I am far and away more apt to be killed in a wreck on the way to camp than any of those. Ya, I carry a gun out in the sticks, usually a 45 colt, but as much for a close shot at game as anything.
My main concern about bears is right after a kill and retrieving it while in their nick of the woods. They know what hunting season is about and that a gun shot can mean a gut pile and some of them might not wait their turn at the dinner table
Now Yellowstone Park has about as high a concentration of Grizzlies as anywhere in the lower 48 it has a huge concentration of nit wits. Here are the odds there figured using actual events
Since 1979, Yellowstone has hosted over 118 million visits. During this time, 44 people were injured by grizzly bears in the park. For all park visitors combined, the chances of being injured by a grizzly bear are approximately 1 in 2.7 million visits. The risk is significantly lower for people who don't leave developed areas or roadsides, and higher for anyone hiking in the backcountry.
Type of Recreational Activity: Risk of Grizzly Bear Attack
Remain in developed areas, roadsides, and boardwalks:
1 in 59.5 million visits
Camp in roadside campgrounds:
1 in 26.6 million overnight stays
Camp in the backcountry:
1 in 1.7 million overnight stays
Hike in the backcountry:
1 in 232,613 person travel days
All park activities combined: 1 in 2.7 million visits
You far more apt to be violently attacked on a city street
My main concern about bears is right after a kill and retrieving it while in their nick of the woods. They know what hunting season is about and that a gun shot can mean a gut pile and some of them might not wait their turn at the dinner table
Now Yellowstone Park has about as high a concentration of Grizzlies as anywhere in the lower 48 it has a huge concentration of nit wits. Here are the odds there figured using actual events
Since 1979, Yellowstone has hosted over 118 million visits. During this time, 44 people were injured by grizzly bears in the park. For all park visitors combined, the chances of being injured by a grizzly bear are approximately 1 in 2.7 million visits. The risk is significantly lower for people who don't leave developed areas or roadsides, and higher for anyone hiking in the backcountry.
Type of Recreational Activity: Risk of Grizzly Bear Attack
Remain in developed areas, roadsides, and boardwalks:
1 in 59.5 million visits
Camp in roadside campgrounds:
1 in 26.6 million overnight stays
Camp in the backcountry:
1 in 1.7 million overnight stays
Hike in the backcountry:
1 in 232,613 person travel days
All park activities combined: 1 in 2.7 million visits
You far more apt to be violently attacked on a city street
Last edited:
Private Bailey
Member
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I’ve run across a few black bears over the years, hiking in the Smokies. And seen sign left by others. The last thing I need or want is to have one mad at me. These aren’t bears as portrayed in silly cartoons and stupid memes. They can seriously hurt you or kill you. Thankfully, that doesn’t happen often.
I think bears look at us the way we would look at someone trying to break into our house and harm our family. You might be having a picnic out in the woods or hiking and camping in the mountains. That’s all well and good. Just remember you’re in the bears’ house, not yours. Act like you have some sense.
I think bears look at us the way we would look at someone trying to break into our house and harm our family. You might be having a picnic out in the woods or hiking and camping in the mountains. That’s all well and good. Just remember you’re in the bears’ house, not yours. Act like you have some sense.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
We were winter camping in Denali National Park, when it was officially closed and the rangers had left for the season. The ranger cabins were "winterized" against the local grizzly bears using wooden shutters and doors, which were all fully "trimmed" at the edges with long framing nails, pointing outward.
I don't recall the method used to attach the nail borders, but nailing through 1x4, then screwing them around the edges of cabin openings seems about right.
This didn't stop the normal use of the openings, though you'd need to be careful entering.
Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk
Last edited:
We had no problem when we used nail boards but......
the Forest Service told us to remove them.
Metal bars might be needed, since we don't want to have to
"shutter up" every time we leave the cabin for 5 -10 days, during the summer.
5-Shot
Member
Interesting thread and response. Having lived most of my live in bear country, I have some different views. The one take away from this thread I total disagree with and is the prevailing view of the world now days, is that we are intruding on the wildlife's home and because of humans the poor critters must die. The human race has been around for at least 3 million years. We are not intruders. We are part of the world and just as much right to walk the forests and fields as any four-legged creature. I live in the edge of the forest and have experienced bears up close on many occasions. I would not trust a bear, mountain lion or wolf as far as I could throw one. Many people go hiking in the woods and are never seen again. There are reasons for that. For the crowd that think Yogi's are misunderstood, should go to YouTube and search for scary bear attack videos. A local man will be in one such episode. His name WAS Colin McCelland. He was sleeping in a camp trailer, so he was not offending or startling any bear. I saw the trailer afterwards and it was gruesome. I have had bears on 2 occasions come into my house while I was watching TV. Had a grizzly try to get me out of my sleeping bag in Alaska. Been within inches of several black bears and have been escorted off the mountain by 2 other bears. Had one try to crawl in my camper shell with me in Wyoming. I can tell you this much, it was not just my daughters that screamed like little girls. In my "do it and think about it later" phase of my life I even crawled headfirst into a bear's den armed only with a 357-magnum revolver to sort out a wounded black bear. Afterwards even my feeble brain said that was not smart. Had to shoot one last year with rubber buckshot as he was hanging around my young grandsons. He was a 2-time loser and his next encounter, which was at my house, and he was a dead bear. Maybe it kept him alive a little longer getting shot in the butt. No, we are not intruders, we are just cohabiting with the other fauna and encounters happen and I always carry a handgun only because I can't by hand grenades at the local Ace Hardware.
Where’s Bear Bio when you need him? 
I grew up in bear county. I’m no expert but we did have many interactions with Bear. Mostly good.
In my experience black bear are much more willing to avoid man but also much more unpredictable when pushed. They can be just as deadly as a brown bear.
Brown bear seem to be much more willing to accept man’s intrusion into their playground. Until you give them a reason not to play nice.
Many times it is man’s fault when they are attacked. The bear were there first. They aren’t as smart as we are. Therefore we need to be better about our situational awareness and not give the bear a reason to defend themselves.
My father and I built a cabin out in the middle of nowhere long ago. Little did we know that we built it on a game trail. Moose and bear frequently walked by to the river not far away.
We kept a 12 gauge close by but never needed it. We nor they never forced the issue.
We returned to the cabin after a long winter to find that a bear broke in through a window. We put steel bars on and didn’t have anymore problems.
When fishing on the rivers, I’ve had brown bear walk within 20 or so yards of me. In those days everyone carried at least a 44 magnum. But it was very rare that anyone had to use it.
I found that the worst thing you could do was to take your dog hiking or camping unleashed. They see the bear and chase it only to come back to you with its tail between its legs bringing the bear with. Not good. But some people think this is the bears fault.
Situational awareness, bear spray backed by by big gun are all you need.
I grew up in bear county. I’m no expert but we did have many interactions with Bear. Mostly good.
In my experience black bear are much more willing to avoid man but also much more unpredictable when pushed. They can be just as deadly as a brown bear.
Brown bear seem to be much more willing to accept man’s intrusion into their playground. Until you give them a reason not to play nice.
Many times it is man’s fault when they are attacked. The bear were there first. They aren’t as smart as we are. Therefore we need to be better about our situational awareness and not give the bear a reason to defend themselves.
My father and I built a cabin out in the middle of nowhere long ago. Little did we know that we built it on a game trail. Moose and bear frequently walked by to the river not far away.
We kept a 12 gauge close by but never needed it. We nor they never forced the issue.
We returned to the cabin after a long winter to find that a bear broke in through a window. We put steel bars on and didn’t have anymore problems.
When fishing on the rivers, I’ve had brown bear walk within 20 or so yards of me. In those days everyone carried at least a 44 magnum. But it was very rare that anyone had to use it.
I found that the worst thing you could do was to take your dog hiking or camping unleashed. They see the bear and chase it only to come back to you with its tail between its legs bringing the bear with. Not good. But some people think this is the bears fault.
Situational awareness, bear spray backed by by big gun are all you need.
It took humans 2 million of those years to reach a total population of 1 billion and in the last 200 we have gone from 1 billion to 7 billion. I am sure taking up a much larger portion of the planet and its resources has increased our interaction with bears.
I agree we have just as much right to walk int he woods, but should we really be putting sub division anywhere and everywhere with no regard to wildlife? I may well have every right to go into bear country. The bear also has every right to be a bear and maul me if I bump into one. We as humans perpetuate much more violence on them that they do on us.
Private Bailey
Member
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- 190
Conversely, one might wonder why large carnivores and herbivores like bears, mountain lions, moose, elk, and buffalo hate us
To the best of my knowledge, in MT when there is a non tagged bear shooting, as from an attack, that involves a sow, the FWP searches for and tries to capture the cubs. These are then re-located or placed in zoo's or fenced viewing areas, not just left to fend for themselves. It isn't interesting enough for the news.
I can find no scientific evidence that apex predators "hate". Science claims that the closest they come to any emotion is fear of humans and other predators.
I will never cause undue harm to any animal but if made to pick a team to side with it will be the bi-peds.
I will never cause undue harm to any animal but if made to pick a team to side with it will be the bi-peds.
YkcorCal
US Veteran
read "Bear Encounter Survival Guide" by James Gary Shelton
You are right. Bear spray should always be your first choice and I say this as someone who lost a friend to an unprovoked male bear attack. Firearms use should be a last resort. Everyone who lives, works or plans to travel intro BEAR country should buy and read "Bear Encounter Survival Guide" by James Gary Shelton and it would be wise to read all his books as I have.
I came into contact with Mr. Shelton as a result of my friend's death by bear attack and feel he is more than worth listening to!!! His words will save not only many peoples' lives but many bears lives as well, if people listen to him!
"James Gary Shelton's three books regarding bear attacks and how to survive them is the most comprehensive body of work ever written on this subject. The research done for this material was so solid that very little revision has been necessary. The reader is also treated to a realistic view of how nature works, and the author shows how politically-correct bear management policies is endangering people's lives. Don't head into bear country without the important information in these books."
Julie McVarnock
Editor, Pallister Publishing
WHERE THE BEAR WALKS
Source: Where the Bear Walks: Defending James Gary Shelton
With my hopes of visiting Glacier National Park this summer, I feel that it's potentially in my best interests to broaden my perspective on bears to the greatest extent that I can manage. I've written extensively about the individual personalities of bears and Glacier Park is one place where that is most evident, considering the lower food rations in Montana compared to the abundance of Southeast Alaska. To prepare, I'm absorbing enough information to reach the level of unofficial PhD and that requires me to re-evaluate sources of information that I previously rejected.
Chief among those are the books of James Gary Shelton, one of the most militant and opinionated bear researchers out there, and one of the most vilified by conservationists. I myself contributed to that with a scathing review of his book Bear Attacks: The Deadly Truth (Thursday January 28, 2010), which merely reflected my own point of view at the time. Now that I've learned so much more, and in keeping with the picture I've been piecing together in my recent posts, I've taken a more informed look at his work and found two surprising things: (1.) That I'm in agreement with many (though not all) of his points, and (2.) That thinking about his writing has answered a major question that I posed almost a year ago. Before we get into that, though, let's begin with some background.
Shelton started out as a hunting guide in Bella Coola, British Columbia in the 1960s, then, concerned that grizzly bear populations were threatened by overhunting, he became chairman of the Central Coast Grizzly Management Committee, a group devoted to bear conservation. Among other things, they put a number of restrictions on hunting laws that allowed bear populations to skyrocket in the late 1970's and throughout the 80's. In fact, the numbers became so high that they exceeded the local habitat's carrying capacity and the inevitable result occurred: predatory attacks on livestock that were soon re-directed towards people.
Last year I put together a post entitled The Great Bear Conundrum (Sunday March 6, 2011) which questioned the reasons for abnormally aggressive black bear behavior in northern British Columbia and interior Canada. Unlike many of their lower 48 cousins, these black bears not only defend their young as fiercely as grizzlies do, but they have also been responsible for some of the most chilling attacks ever recorded. Who can forget the attack at Liard Hot Springs, when one lone black bear killed two people and injured two others in one assault before being shot? Or, even more chilling, the three young men who were killed one at a time in Algonquin Provincial Park, their bodies stored as a food cache?
I was initially critical of Shelton's writing because it portrays bears in exactly this mercilessly savage light, but now I find it funny that it took me this long to realize that he lives in the heart of this highly volatile bear population and has written his books from that perspective. Knowing that, I'm writing this partly to make up for my earlier bashing of his work and partly to help people realize that he's only doing what almost every other bear researcher does: presenting his information as a reflection of the animals he knows rather than the species as a whole. I think what finally earned my respect was his acknowledgment of these differences. Commenting on Lynn Rogers and his work with the black bears of Minnesota, Shelton says that he has no doubt that Rogers is perfectly safe. He says those bears subsist on grasses, berries, and insects and that the habitat can sustain enough of these natural foods to keep them satiated, just as the coastal grizzlies of Alaska differ in temperament from their interior cousins because of the abundance of berries and salmon available to them. The black bears of northern British Columbia, however, must endure short, cool summers and harsh winters that don't allow for the growth of such prime vegetation. The result is an animal that must rely more on meat and that has become more carnivore than omnivore.
What irks some environmentalists the most about Shelton is his solution to the problem. First, Shelton controversially challenges the opinion that bear attacks are always the fault of the victims. He contends that sometimes it is the fault of the bear, because that is what opportunistic predators often do. I've come to agree with this thinking 100% (sure, the night of the grizzlies and my feelings on that probably have something to do with it), but it causes literal mouth-foaming from those who want to keep a perpetual halo over the animal's heads. Shelton believes that there are not always clear explanations or reasons for bear attacks and that safety advice is alarmingly incomplete and untrustworthy, though he does promote many of Stephen Herrero's (author of Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance, THE top bear safety guide ever written) views. Shelton carries bear spray but advocates firearms and controlled hunting to promote fear of humans in the bear population. In fact, he has helped put hunting regulations in place that have not only brought the bear population down to a more workable level but that have brought down the staggering number of attacks as well.
So how does that fit with all of my previous assertions that hunting can actually make bears more dangerous to people? Can both be true? I've thought a lot about that and here's my theory: I think that bears that are normally shy and timid around people could certainly be made more aggressive by it, particularly in close encounters, while bears that are already aggressive - especially in the predatory sense - can only be made less so. After all, they've clearly learned that people are easy to hunt and easy to kill, so "striking back" will no doubt teach them to re-evaluate that assessment and, in Sheldon's case at least, it seems to have worked extremely well.
F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote about holding two contradictory thoughts in your mind at one time. The study of bears seems to contain more contradictory thoughts than any other field I'm aware of. Bears are killers, bears are not killers; hunting makes bears more aggressive, hunting makes bears more respectful. All of these are true. The further I go, the more I realize what a thin line this is and how careful you have to be to not veer too far to either side. But I'm also realizing that that's a good thing, that a diversity of information, thoughts, and opinions can be useful if I'm walking through the mountains of Montana, or anywhere in bear country. Only then can I be most adequately prepared for any and all possibilities. The way I see it, I can only benefit from walking through those woods believing that nothing out there wants to kill me, yet knowing that somewhere out there in the dark woods...there may be something that does.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I consider Mr. Shelton as my friend and one of the finest gentleman I ever met!
Rocky
You are right. Bear spray should always be your first choice and I say this as someone who lost a friend to an unprovoked male bear attack. Firearms use should be a last resort. Everyone who lives, works or plans to travel intro BEAR country should buy and read "Bear Encounter Survival Guide" by James Gary Shelton and it would be wise to read all his books as I have.
I came into contact with Mr. Shelton as a result of my friend's death by bear attack and feel he is more than worth listening to!!! His words will save not only many peoples' lives but many bears lives as well, if people listen to him!
"James Gary Shelton's three books regarding bear attacks and how to survive them is the most comprehensive body of work ever written on this subject. The research done for this material was so solid that very little revision has been necessary. The reader is also treated to a realistic view of how nature works, and the author shows how politically-correct bear management policies is endangering people's lives. Don't head into bear country without the important information in these books."
Julie McVarnock
Editor, Pallister Publishing
WHERE THE BEAR WALKS
Source: Where the Bear Walks: Defending James Gary Shelton
With my hopes of visiting Glacier National Park this summer, I feel that it's potentially in my best interests to broaden my perspective on bears to the greatest extent that I can manage. I've written extensively about the individual personalities of bears and Glacier Park is one place where that is most evident, considering the lower food rations in Montana compared to the abundance of Southeast Alaska. To prepare, I'm absorbing enough information to reach the level of unofficial PhD and that requires me to re-evaluate sources of information that I previously rejected.
Chief among those are the books of James Gary Shelton, one of the most militant and opinionated bear researchers out there, and one of the most vilified by conservationists. I myself contributed to that with a scathing review of his book Bear Attacks: The Deadly Truth (Thursday January 28, 2010), which merely reflected my own point of view at the time. Now that I've learned so much more, and in keeping with the picture I've been piecing together in my recent posts, I've taken a more informed look at his work and found two surprising things: (1.) That I'm in agreement with many (though not all) of his points, and (2.) That thinking about his writing has answered a major question that I posed almost a year ago. Before we get into that, though, let's begin with some background.
Shelton started out as a hunting guide in Bella Coola, British Columbia in the 1960s, then, concerned that grizzly bear populations were threatened by overhunting, he became chairman of the Central Coast Grizzly Management Committee, a group devoted to bear conservation. Among other things, they put a number of restrictions on hunting laws that allowed bear populations to skyrocket in the late 1970's and throughout the 80's. In fact, the numbers became so high that they exceeded the local habitat's carrying capacity and the inevitable result occurred: predatory attacks on livestock that were soon re-directed towards people.
Last year I put together a post entitled The Great Bear Conundrum (Sunday March 6, 2011) which questioned the reasons for abnormally aggressive black bear behavior in northern British Columbia and interior Canada. Unlike many of their lower 48 cousins, these black bears not only defend their young as fiercely as grizzlies do, but they have also been responsible for some of the most chilling attacks ever recorded. Who can forget the attack at Liard Hot Springs, when one lone black bear killed two people and injured two others in one assault before being shot? Or, even more chilling, the three young men who were killed one at a time in Algonquin Provincial Park, their bodies stored as a food cache?
I was initially critical of Shelton's writing because it portrays bears in exactly this mercilessly savage light, but now I find it funny that it took me this long to realize that he lives in the heart of this highly volatile bear population and has written his books from that perspective. Knowing that, I'm writing this partly to make up for my earlier bashing of his work and partly to help people realize that he's only doing what almost every other bear researcher does: presenting his information as a reflection of the animals he knows rather than the species as a whole. I think what finally earned my respect was his acknowledgment of these differences. Commenting on Lynn Rogers and his work with the black bears of Minnesota, Shelton says that he has no doubt that Rogers is perfectly safe. He says those bears subsist on grasses, berries, and insects and that the habitat can sustain enough of these natural foods to keep them satiated, just as the coastal grizzlies of Alaska differ in temperament from their interior cousins because of the abundance of berries and salmon available to them. The black bears of northern British Columbia, however, must endure short, cool summers and harsh winters that don't allow for the growth of such prime vegetation. The result is an animal that must rely more on meat and that has become more carnivore than omnivore.
What irks some environmentalists the most about Shelton is his solution to the problem. First, Shelton controversially challenges the opinion that bear attacks are always the fault of the victims. He contends that sometimes it is the fault of the bear, because that is what opportunistic predators often do. I've come to agree with this thinking 100% (sure, the night of the grizzlies and my feelings on that probably have something to do with it), but it causes literal mouth-foaming from those who want to keep a perpetual halo over the animal's heads. Shelton believes that there are not always clear explanations or reasons for bear attacks and that safety advice is alarmingly incomplete and untrustworthy, though he does promote many of Stephen Herrero's (author of Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance, THE top bear safety guide ever written) views. Shelton carries bear spray but advocates firearms and controlled hunting to promote fear of humans in the bear population. In fact, he has helped put hunting regulations in place that have not only brought the bear population down to a more workable level but that have brought down the staggering number of attacks as well.
So how does that fit with all of my previous assertions that hunting can actually make bears more dangerous to people? Can both be true? I've thought a lot about that and here's my theory: I think that bears that are normally shy and timid around people could certainly be made more aggressive by it, particularly in close encounters, while bears that are already aggressive - especially in the predatory sense - can only be made less so. After all, they've clearly learned that people are easy to hunt and easy to kill, so "striking back" will no doubt teach them to re-evaluate that assessment and, in Sheldon's case at least, it seems to have worked extremely well.
F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote about holding two contradictory thoughts in your mind at one time. The study of bears seems to contain more contradictory thoughts than any other field I'm aware of. Bears are killers, bears are not killers; hunting makes bears more aggressive, hunting makes bears more respectful. All of these are true. The further I go, the more I realize what a thin line this is and how careful you have to be to not veer too far to either side. But I'm also realizing that that's a good thing, that a diversity of information, thoughts, and opinions can be useful if I'm walking through the mountains of Montana, or anywhere in bear country. Only then can I be most adequately prepared for any and all possibilities. The way I see it, I can only benefit from walking through those woods believing that nothing out there wants to kill me, yet knowing that somewhere out there in the dark woods...there may be something that does.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I consider Mr. Shelton as my friend and one of the finest gentleman I ever met!
Rocky
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Rpg
Member
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mr. Shelton is the best author available on the subject.
If you haven’t read his works, you’re missing a huge reservoir of experience and expertise.
Doug M.
Member
*
Just out of curiosity, what are the numbers for Bison. I am sure that there are more attacks, just don't know how many of them are fatal.
Could not find any solid numbers, but I think 3 deaths total. Thing is in 1970 there were only about 500 bison in the park, but, the population has gone way up and there is now over 5000 of them in the park. There are only about 150 grizzlies and a total of little over 700 bears in the park. The bison also frequent the areas near and even on the roads. Bears not so much now that feeding them is a no no.
I believe that people being idiots is more apt to cause a bison goring where bear attacks are more apt to be wrong place wrong time.
There are constant reports of people just flat getting to close to bison. Recently 2 bulls were fighting on the road and 2 Marlin Perkins wanna bes, got out and stood and filmed by their front fender while the bison fought at the back bumper on the same side. Nit Wits. 2 hunks of 2000# sex mad muscle that can cover 20 ft faster than you can blink. What could go wrong?
I believe that people being idiots is more apt to cause a bison goring where bear attacks are more apt to be wrong place wrong time.
There are constant reports of people just flat getting to close to bison. Recently 2 bulls were fighting on the road and 2 Marlin Perkins wanna bes, got out and stood and filmed by their front fender while the bison fought at the back bumper on the same side. Nit Wits. 2 hunks of 2000# sex mad muscle that can cover 20 ft faster than you can blink. What could go wrong?
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