Bubba was here....now what??

[Masterbuck54]

Okay it appears "Bubba" has a drill press as well as a Dremel Tool

This 657 ND 8 3/8' was purchased by my son and he sent it my way to see if I can get a rear sight for it....I guess that's what dads are for

So the question here is what are my options?

It appears that the front screw hole has been enlarged for some reason when "Bubba" mounted some type of scope base....unfortunately or fortunately the gun was purchased as is with no scope base.

1) What can I use to "plug" the front hole? JB Weld?
2) What size threads would the original sight have and can a tap be purchased to thread a new hole?
3) I checked at my local Ace Hardware store to see if I could find a screw/plug for the current holes...of course the back three holes are one thread size but couldn't find one for the front
4) Try to determine the thread size on the original hole and enlarge the countersunk hole in a new/used rear sight?

So what do the experts say to do here?

Any and all info would be appreciated.

Masterbuck54

 

[Drm50]

Not familiar with that model but front hole is probably the only hole you will use with new sight. But you say it's been enlarged? Sight will need front hole enlarged also and hole tapped for screw. Sight will cover back 3 holes.
If they bother you could be filled with plug screws. Front hole is a puzzle.
If you found tap for back 3 at HWD they are most likely common thread, I would hope NF but who knows with bubba. Front hole would have been original hole with gun thread screw. Why they would enlarge it and use a different tap size I don't know.

 

[chief38]

I am not a Metallurgist - however it would seem to me that in order to properly repair the gun and retain structural integrity, it would have to be welded and then heat treated if possible. If that can't be done - I'd personally scrap it and save the parts (assuming they have not been Bubbed up as well).

Personally, there would be no way I would shoot 41 Mag's out of that gun in its present condition!!!!!

 

[steelslaver]

You might look around for a rear sight that has its mounting hole farther back. Some of the earlier ones didn't mount with a hole directly over the barrel extension. If you had one of those you could drill and tap a new hole and fill the rest. Just make them using a small piece of the proper thread screw with a slot cut in with a Dremel slitter disk. Locktite in place. If you have to you could fill the front hole the same way then drill and tap the screw piece used filled hole. Go to Ace hardware, many of them have the little box drawers with gun screws. You might find a screw there that fits right. Another option is if tthe front screw hole isn;t to big and has good threads is to find a screw that fits it. Drill the hole in a sight out to that size and redo the counter sink so its head sits flush.

Good luck. Bubba couldn't even get the holes lines up.

 

[H Richard]

Since current mfg 657's have three holes in the top strap from the factory I don't think the structural integrity has been compromised.

 

[bulletslap]

In the past I have whittled down a dowel out of soft wood and threaded into a hole with an unknown thread size and got enough of an impression on the wood to roughly measure pitch and tpi.

 

[ken158]

You have a mess. Without research, I dont think the ND came with tapped holes. Even the underside of the top strap seems to have issues where it looks to have been clamped or something. There is a guy on the forum that has done some amazing retro jobs and maybe you can find him for an opinion - BUT considering all options and potential issues, I would make it a parts gun and cut my losses. If it blows up on you - you cannot un-ring that bell.

 

[series guy]

There are hundreds of thousands of S&Ws out there with drilled and tapped frames for optics. These guns are not blowing up every day. As H Richard states the new guns are drilled and tapped from the factory. Any competent gunsmith or even an understanding machinist can plug these holes for you. After plugging the front hole drill and tap for the factory sight screw and all will be well. Hopefully the price paid reflected the time and effort needed to put this gun right. An easy way out is to use the existing holes to mount a base and then add an optic to the gun.

 

[Hondo44]

There's nothing unsafe about your gun!

The simplest solution is as steelslaver posted, get the holes tig welded, might as well do it right. There's gun welders that specialize in this work but any decent local welder can do it. Fortunately it's a stainless gun so after welding and dressing down the welds, the heat coloring can be polished off and look as good as new! As far as I've read, that frame is not heat treated, only the yoke is. These guys will know:

Micro Welding
PULLMAN ARMS
Dan Harvey- Lead Gunsmith
[email protected]
(508) 926-8730
Hours: Monday - Friday 8:30am- 5:00pm
>> Gunsmithing Services

Wicked Welding micro-welding
5703 Webster St suite j, Dayton, OH 45414
Phone: (937) 454-9023

As for the front original sight screw hole, I'd have it welded too and re-tap the hole for the proper factory screw: .074 x 64 = close to a #2 if it's the same screw on your gun as it was for the first 80 years of hand ejector production with the square shaped sight tang front end. But order the screw first from Smith or other suppliers on Ebay to verify before tapping the hole. Or just let Dan at Pullman Arms take care of it if you send to him for welding.

Some Ace Hardware stores carry "gun screws" but not all. However even if they do, they do not have the specialized sight screw.

Good luck,

 

[andy52]

I personally wouldn't worry about getting it micro welded and like other have said I don't think the frame is compromised by the holes.
A simple solution if your just wanting to put iron sights back on it would be a set Bowen rough country sights for older S&Ws. The tang on the Bowens are not drilled so you could put a screw wherever it would fit and just drill and tap a hole. The sight are a little pricey but very well made.
Here's a photo of one that's already been drilled.

 

[Masterbuck54]

Thanks for the info

Thanks to all for the information.

1) Yes the Ace Hardware I visited has the "gun screw" assortments and I couldn't find a screw that would fit any of the (4) holes in that assortment. The guy did find a cap screw that would fit the back (3) screws 8-30....not 100% on that though.

2) I believe the gun was shot with the holes drilled and a scope mounted but I do appreciate the concern.

3) I have a buddy who builds black powder rifles and has quite a few tools of the trade in his shop. I might pay him a visit to see what he can do.

4) I will look into the sight suggested but I have a model 24-3 that is wearing a Millet rear sight that I might try and use and get a S&W original sight for the 24-3.

I still can't understand why Bubba would have used a different tap for the original front hole??

Maybe I just need to chase the threads with a tap to possibly clear out any debri that may have gotten in there??

Hopefully I'll update this thread with positive results sooner than later.

In my 3rd week off work and hope to be back on the 4th of May.

Everyone stay safe.

Masterbuck54

 

[Patrick L]

I agree, the gun is not unsafe, just ugly.

Bubba may have had a drill press and a Dremel tool, but he sure as heck didn't have a square or even a straightedge!

Many good suggestions here. Personally, I would likely just mount a sight that will cover the excess drainage ports, but if they bother you by all means get them welded up right.

 

[6string]

Hi Pete,

Greetings from one SC guy to another!
Your idea to use the Millett sight is the best bet from a cost/utility standpoint.
Andy52's idea about the Bowen sight is great. It is a much nicer made sight than the Millett, and yes, it can be drilled and fitted to best cover up the mess.

Hondo44 has great recommendations regarding microwelding. I have used Pullman Arms myself. They do amazing work. They work on a very reasonable shop/hr. rate. I don't think it would be expensive at all to fill the three holes. Once dressed down, I doubt you'd ever notice them even with the cylinder swung out. Microwelding will not compromise the steel in any way, and is the best bet to "un-do what Bubba did".

Jim

 

[Hondo44]

Thanks to all for the information.
I still can't understand why Bubba would have used a different tap for the original front hole??Masterbuck54

That's actually the easiest question to answer:

Bubba always takes the path of least resistance!
Doesn't care what the new hole threads or size are, whatever tap and screws he may have on hand.
Can't even spell the word "craftsmanship" let alone practice it.
Has no regard for originality or consistency of screw size methodology.
Would use super glue if he thought it would work to fix all things and/or a bigger hammer.
Has not and never will tumble to the fact that pre-thinking solutions has its benefits.
Just get the darn scope mounted so he can go 'choot' it right now!

 

[Drm50]

Bubba and his buddy the Artful Stock Carver were last seen heading west in a green YUGO. Anyone who apprehend them should put their hands in a vice and use cheater bar to close it.

 

[6string]

Hondo44, in addition to superglue, don't forget the duct tape!

 

[Patrick L]

Hondo44, in addition to superglue, don't forget the duct tape!

Aw, you beat me to it! And, the entire range of Flex Seal products. After all , I seen it work on TV!

 

[torizus]

Not familiar with this model but if I'm reading this correctly, there was a change on current models versus older ones with the number of factory holes being increased to three.
I suspect bubba obtained a current after market or factory base with three holes for the newer model. He may have modified that gun to fit the current base or mount. Wether he succeeded could only only be determined by trying to fit such a base.
In any case, I would research those new mounts for the size screws used om them and that may be your perfect fit.

If it turns out not to be that simple then Hondo44 has the correct solution if appearance is your goal.

 

[Hondo44]

Hondo44, in addition to superglue, don't forget the duct tape!

Aw, you beat me to it! And, the entire range of Flex Seal products. After all , I seen it work on TV!

LOL, yeah, you'll find both of those on Bubba's car and boat.

 

[andyo5]

Without knowing what your son paid for the gun, I suggest doing a cost/benefit analysis on the repairs before proceeding with them. You may find that for the cost of the work and the parts, you could just buy another gun in good condition.