I agree. Just do what you want. Maybe getting a new gun with what you want is the best option for you.
Sent from my iPhone
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?
- Thread starter Realerikwood
- Start date
I agree. Just do what you want. Maybe getting a new gun with what you want is the best option for you.
Sent from my iPhone
Shooting Padre
US Veteran
All my scissors have thumb safeties on them. So does my M&P9, although I don't like the soft action of it. It needs to have more positive click stops. The thumb safety on my M&P22 is much better. I had a mag disconnect on my 3913 and grew to like it. This choice seems to be very personal.
Last edited:
jdh
US Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2006
- Messages
- 1,701
- Reaction score
- 1,175
Then why carry at all? The chances that you will need a firearm are almost non-existent after all.
We've been issuing service pistols with magazine disconnects for over 20 years. While I initially accepted it as the price of getting semis, I've come to appreciate the device.
First, there are all those officers saved by them in gun grabs. This was hashed out on a restricted website for LE firearms instructors. In less than 24 hours we had 30+ saves.
Second, if your weapon goes schlub instead of bang, a tap/rack/ready (otherwise known as an immediate action drill) takes care of the problem. Which, incidentally, is exactly what you'll do if your pistol fires your chambered round, but can't feed the next because your mag dropped. I'll also note that not firing the weapon with a partially seated mag can save you from dropping the mag due to recoil. An IAD is a lot faster than an easter egg hunt for a dropped magazine or a reload.
Third, those folks who harp on being able to fire the chambered round while reloading ignore the times in which you're supposed to execute a tactical reload: from behind cover during a lull in the action. Since you don't remove the partial mag until the fresh one is at the gun, any delay is minimal if an adversary materializes where they're a threat.
The one thing the OP hasn't brought up is where he's going to get the parts to install his magazine disconnect. The factory isn't going to sell them since they're safety items. He'll have to search out someone who removed them from their weapons. Or, buy a sear block with the parts and install them into one with a thumb safety if they'll fit.
One last thing, comparing the trigger action of the M&P to that of the Glock is comparing apples to donkeys. The Glock is the world wide leader in negligent discharges. Something the longer, very slightly heavier, (much like a very well tuned double action revolver) trigger action of the M&P makes less likely.
First, there are all those officers saved by them in gun grabs. This was hashed out on a restricted website for LE firearms instructors. In less than 24 hours we had 30+ saves.
Second, if your weapon goes schlub instead of bang, a tap/rack/ready (otherwise known as an immediate action drill) takes care of the problem. Which, incidentally, is exactly what you'll do if your pistol fires your chambered round, but can't feed the next because your mag dropped. I'll also note that not firing the weapon with a partially seated mag can save you from dropping the mag due to recoil. An IAD is a lot faster than an easter egg hunt for a dropped magazine or a reload.
Third, those folks who harp on being able to fire the chambered round while reloading ignore the times in which you're supposed to execute a tactical reload: from behind cover during a lull in the action. Since you don't remove the partial mag until the fresh one is at the gun, any delay is minimal if an adversary materializes where they're a threat.
The one thing the OP hasn't brought up is where he's going to get the parts to install his magazine disconnect. The factory isn't going to sell them since they're safety items. He'll have to search out someone who removed them from their weapons. Or, buy a sear block with the parts and install them into one with a thumb safety if they'll fit.
One last thing, comparing the trigger action of the M&P to that of the Glock is comparing apples to donkeys. The Glock is the world wide leader in negligent discharges. Something the longer, very slightly heavier, (much like a very well tuned double action revolver) trigger action of the M&P makes less likely.
Last edited:
Silversmok3
Member
I would once again emphasize the inclusion of a 3rd Generation S&W pistol to the shopping list. I have nothing against the M&P, but there is nothing that weapon can do that a 5906/5903 cannot do just as well, and there can be a financial discount in buying the used 3rd Generation weapon as well. It comes with an external safety and magazine disconnect.
Should the M&P still take precedence in this purchase, a wiser thing to do would be to contact Smith and Wesson for a solution to this problem. Perhaps for the right fee they would be willing to modify a purchased weapon or put in an order for the same.
Should the M&P still take precedence in this purchase, a wiser thing to do would be to contact Smith and Wesson for a solution to this problem. Perhaps for the right fee they would be willing to modify a purchased weapon or put in an order for the same.
southchatham
Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2010
- Messages
- 374
- Reaction score
- 118
Big weight difference.
Shooting Padre
US Veteran
I carried a 3913 3rd Gen for several years, and it served me very well. It had both thumb safety and mag disconnect safety. An excellent gun as are all the 3rd gen guns, there was nothing that it couldn't do that a M&P could do. Unfortunately, I had to part with it in order to do something for my son. I now own a M&P9, which I also was impressed with the first time I picked one up. So there are really good economical options out there. I really love my new M&P and I have the .22 version also, but I miss the 3913 and was proud to have had one of these classics. The 3913 was easier to conceal, as it was a single stack instead of a double, the M&P is a little larger.
As for round in the chamber. None of the bad people in the real world want to give you advanced notice that you will need your gun. I personally don't want to be messing with a slide to activate my personal defense system. As for the almost non existent chance of needing, it may indeed never come up. But I carry a spare tire in my vehicle too, and I, in the last thirty years of driving have had to change a tire once. But I had a spare with me when I did. Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Your choice. Why carry in the first place? This is your decision and yours only, don't let anyone else tell you why or why not to do so. It takes a lot of forethought in making this decision, but it is yours to make. As for getting an M&P, you may just have to pick the model that best suits you need. Good luck, good shopping and good shooting.
As for round in the chamber. None of the bad people in the real world want to give you advanced notice that you will need your gun. I personally don't want to be messing with a slide to activate my personal defense system. As for the almost non existent chance of needing, it may indeed never come up. But I carry a spare tire in my vehicle too, and I, in the last thirty years of driving have had to change a tire once. But I had a spare with me when I did. Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Your choice. Why carry in the first place? This is your decision and yours only, don't let anyone else tell you why or why not to do so. It takes a lot of forethought in making this decision, but it is yours to make. As for getting an M&P, you may just have to pick the model that best suits you need. Good luck, good shopping and good shooting.
Shooting Padre
US Veteran
WR Moore; One last thing said:
It's a complex mix of factors including a short trigger stroke, a lack of both initial and sustainment training and, in many cases, a failure to follow the directions in, or even read, the owners manual. Many owners compound the issue by installing trigger kits that reduce the trigger pull to levels the factory would never sanction. [Most factory specs for semi-automatic pistols specify a trigger pull of not less than 4-4 1/2 lbs. I'm not a Glockophile, IIRC, the stock trigger is around 5 lbs. You'll see kits approaching 1/2 that.]
A local recently shot himself by 'doing a Plaxico' and carrying a Glock without a holster (specifically a holster that covers the trigger/trigger guard area) and bled to death in front of his family. [Failure to read/follow the manual.]
DC Metro, at the last time I checked, had averaged 1 ND per month for over 12 years. Miami Metro had so many "accidents" they allegedly coined the term "unintentional discharge" to keep from losing their liability insurance coverage. [Inadequate training and a multitude of other issues.]
This could go on, but I believe you get the idea. I will note that there are agencies and indiviuals with no issues with the product, but, then there's the rest of the story.
A local recently shot himself by 'doing a Plaxico' and carrying a Glock without a holster (specifically a holster that covers the trigger/trigger guard area) and bled to death in front of his family. [Failure to read/follow the manual.]
DC Metro, at the last time I checked, had averaged 1 ND per month for over 12 years. Miami Metro had so many "accidents" they allegedly coined the term "unintentional discharge" to keep from losing their liability insurance coverage. [Inadequate training and a multitude of other issues.]
This could go on, but I believe you get the idea. I will note that there are agencies and indiviuals with no issues with the product, but, then there's the rest of the story.
Last edited:
OP
Realerikwood
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2010
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 11
Sorry, I'll clarify:
Knowing Dan Burwell is something of the M&P guru, I contacted him to ask if he could do the work. and his response to my query was:
"Yes I can help you out. You need to buy a gun with the thumb safety then the
magazine disconnect can be added pretty easily.
You cannot buy a gun without a thumb safety then add a thumb safety later.
The frames are different on the models with the safety.
Thanks,
Dan"
So, I'll have the peace of mind knowing that the job was done right and will not fail when the heat is on.
Also, to answer another poster's question, there is one thing that the M&P series can do besides weigh less than the Gen 3 pistols: they have a 22LR pistol on the same platform for cheap training. Additionally, Apex Tactical has all but confirmed they are creating a 22LR conversion kit for the M&P series. The only question is whether it will be for the full size or also the compact M&Ps. Because this is one of my purchase criteria, it makes the decision for me over the Gen 3 -although I do admire them very much, and seriously considered one for a time.
-Erik
Houdini1953
Member
All my guns are loaded at all times and never have any shot a bullet unless I pulled the trigger most are S&W;s and one lonely Glock Gen4 26.
The real safety is your responsible storage or holstering and attitude towards a deadly weapon.
Read the owners manual All weapons are loaded and can cause great harm, owning a firearm is a great responsibility if you want a mechanical device to make you feel better then you need more time with how your particular gun works!
I have 5 M&Ps all fully loaded at all times and never has one gone and shot by itself, it ain't gonna happen I have to actually pull a two stage trigger, I can drop it or even throw it (but who would do that) and it will not shoot till I pull the trigger of a two stage trigger! Nuff said!
The real safety is your responsible storage or holstering and attitude towards a deadly weapon.
Read the owners manual All weapons are loaded and can cause great harm, owning a firearm is a great responsibility if you want a mechanical device to make you feel better then you need more time with how your particular gun works!
I have 5 M&Ps all fully loaded at all times and never has one gone and shot by itself, it ain't gonna happen I have to actually pull a two stage trigger, I can drop it or even throw it (but who would do that) and it will not shoot till I pull the trigger of a two stage trigger! Nuff said!
kbm6893
Member
Glocks ship with a 5.5 pound trigger and require a pull of the trigger to field strip. They are also marketed to new shooters as being "simple to use". I can't count how many people i have heard saying "i want a Glock. They're the best. the FBI uses them".
Glocks are good guns in the hands of trained, experienced shooters, and even THEY have brain farts. They are much less forgiving of human error, and we are all human and capable of making a mistake. For cops, i feel they (and any other striker fired gun) are horrible choices. Try reholstering after a foor chase or during a struggle, or on a felony car stop. That's when most of the ND's occur. We had the choice of the S&W 5946, the SIG 226 both hammer fired) and the Glock 19. When I left the job, 9MM's had been in service for more than 10 years. ZERO cases od ND's with the SIG or Smith. All of them were Glocks. If you place your thumb on the back of the slide when holstering a hammer fired gun, you can't have an ND. Not so with a striker fired gun.
Beat Trash
Member
As others have stated, the magazine safety can be added or removed by an armor, no big deal.
I'm not a huge fan of the magazine safety, but with that said, my agency has two documented saves where during weapon retention incidents in which suspects were trying to disarm the officers, the officers managed to drop the magazine as the gun was being forced out of the holster. In both cases, the suspects attempted to shoot the officer with their gun, only to have the gun not function due to the magazine safety. Both of these cases were pre - M&P, when the issued guns were 5906's and then 5946's.
The nice thing about the design of the magazine safety on the M&P is that it's just a few parts and a couple of minutes. Put it on, take it off, your choice.
I'm not a huge fan of the magazine safety, but with that said, my agency has two documented saves where during weapon retention incidents in which suspects were trying to disarm the officers, the officers managed to drop the magazine as the gun was being forced out of the holster. In both cases, the suspects attempted to shoot the officer with their gun, only to have the gun not function due to the magazine safety. Both of these cases were pre - M&P, when the issued guns were 5906's and then 5946's.
The nice thing about the design of the magazine safety on the M&P is that it's just a few parts and a couple of minutes. Put it on, take it off, your choice.
My post revives a thread from 2012. I chose to revive it rather than write my own OP of a new thread. For all of you who chastise the newbie to "do a search", I did...and this is the end result. This is long, go get some fresh whatever you're drinking right now.
To all: please read from the beginning? My comments and remarks will be better understood when you do.
1) I am in the same place as the OP, wanting a M&P pistol, and chose the 9c for purchase. However, I wanted 2 guns, identical in every respect which added some difficulty to my buying experience since there are only 2 LGS within 100 miles of my home. I was elated to find 2 9c pistols at one location, however one was a "civilian" gun and the other a "LE" only gun, as determined by S&W. Minor issue I could address after purchase, or so I was led to believe by the LGS.
Neither gun had a manual safety but the GS at the LGS assured me that he could order the parts for the manual safeties when he ordered the one missing MD. His assurance was so well presented (even showed me the two knock-out tabs on the frames) that I went forward with the purchase. My decision was sealed by a 50 dollar discount on each gun, which would pay for the LGS/GS upgrades. One additional form for S&W on my LEO status, and I took home my two new additions to the collection.
2) As time passed, I grew suspicious of the polished sales approach of the GS. Not hearing any news by TX, I stopped by the LGS for a second helping only to learn that the GS was lacking time in grade but felt that "I went to Smith's Armorer School" was all he needed to be a GS anyway. I recalled that at one time an FFL was required but he assured me that this was no longer the case. In any event, guard up and lesson learned, I moved on.
3) The OP is correct. S&W will not sell any safety parts. In fact, they won't even discuss it after that restriction has been stated. Others whom S&W suggested (Brownells, Midway) would be happy to order the parts for me, just get the part number. Calling back to S&W drew a regurgitation of the same disclaimer, refusing to provide the PN. I was growing very disappointed. I made a foolish decision based in my urgency to go forward with my project AND I spent seed money I was not going to recover without suffering a loss.
4) Visiting the other LGS who employed another GS full-time, I presented my 9c pistols for upgrade. "Magazine disconnect won't be an issue, but the manual safeties...Man, I just don't know. Can you get the parts?" I had to admit defeat. Frozen in place because I didn't know what to do next, I found a 45c in the case. FDE with a manual safety. I looked it over closely before asking the GS if he had another. " Hold on..." And he called a sales tech into the conversation and went back to smithing. The answer was yes, an identical gun was at the warehouse and my plans looked a tad better, again. Traded my 9c pistols for two 45c. The money hurt, but I'll live. Actually, this feeling of "stupid" is more expensive.
My point here is to say..."Y'all on your soap boxes, leave us alone". I know I did not ignore any of the suggested arguments when I selected the M&P line for my project, and I am sure the OP did likewise. This much was obvious, stated early on. Yet you pursue, sometimes ridiculously. Okay, you had your shot, it's over. Those of y'all who tried to help the OP, on his behalf...Thank you.
The OP knows what he wants. I know what I want. The solutions are few, but still possible. So, why did I type so much to say so? Because I can.
I can because in May of 1976, on the west side of Chicago, I dropped the magazine from my Browning Hi-Power and crawled away to take cover and get to my back-up weapon.
There...My story. Me. I am here because of an MD, and a manual safety. If it's a pistol, I will not own anything less capable. Y'all can tell stories built on data and third party re-telling, but I do not have to. Now when y'all say "I know a guy" you can bring them back here.
The OP question was "how". Not "why". Now look at what y'all did.
I expect some flack, but y'all be safe anyway.
To all: please read from the beginning? My comments and remarks will be better understood when you do.
1) I am in the same place as the OP, wanting a M&P pistol, and chose the 9c for purchase. However, I wanted 2 guns, identical in every respect which added some difficulty to my buying experience since there are only 2 LGS within 100 miles of my home. I was elated to find 2 9c pistols at one location, however one was a "civilian" gun and the other a "LE" only gun, as determined by S&W. Minor issue I could address after purchase, or so I was led to believe by the LGS.
Neither gun had a manual safety but the GS at the LGS assured me that he could order the parts for the manual safeties when he ordered the one missing MD. His assurance was so well presented (even showed me the two knock-out tabs on the frames) that I went forward with the purchase. My decision was sealed by a 50 dollar discount on each gun, which would pay for the LGS/GS upgrades. One additional form for S&W on my LEO status, and I took home my two new additions to the collection.
2) As time passed, I grew suspicious of the polished sales approach of the GS. Not hearing any news by TX, I stopped by the LGS for a second helping only to learn that the GS was lacking time in grade but felt that "I went to Smith's Armorer School" was all he needed to be a GS anyway. I recalled that at one time an FFL was required but he assured me that this was no longer the case. In any event, guard up and lesson learned, I moved on.
3) The OP is correct. S&W will not sell any safety parts. In fact, they won't even discuss it after that restriction has been stated. Others whom S&W suggested (Brownells, Midway) would be happy to order the parts for me, just get the part number. Calling back to S&W drew a regurgitation of the same disclaimer, refusing to provide the PN. I was growing very disappointed. I made a foolish decision based in my urgency to go forward with my project AND I spent seed money I was not going to recover without suffering a loss.
4) Visiting the other LGS who employed another GS full-time, I presented my 9c pistols for upgrade. "Magazine disconnect won't be an issue, but the manual safeties...Man, I just don't know. Can you get the parts?" I had to admit defeat. Frozen in place because I didn't know what to do next, I found a 45c in the case. FDE with a manual safety. I looked it over closely before asking the GS if he had another. " Hold on..." And he called a sales tech into the conversation and went back to smithing. The answer was yes, an identical gun was at the warehouse and my plans looked a tad better, again. Traded my 9c pistols for two 45c. The money hurt, but I'll live. Actually, this feeling of "stupid" is more expensive.
My point here is to say..."Y'all on your soap boxes, leave us alone". I know I did not ignore any of the suggested arguments when I selected the M&P line for my project, and I am sure the OP did likewise. This much was obvious, stated early on. Yet you pursue, sometimes ridiculously. Okay, you had your shot, it's over. Those of y'all who tried to help the OP, on his behalf...Thank you.
The OP knows what he wants. I know what I want. The solutions are few, but still possible. So, why did I type so much to say so? Because I can.
I can because in May of 1976, on the west side of Chicago, I dropped the magazine from my Browning Hi-Power and crawled away to take cover and get to my back-up weapon.
There...My story. Me. I am here because of an MD, and a manual safety. If it's a pistol, I will not own anything less capable. Y'all can tell stories built on data and third party re-telling, but I do not have to. Now when y'all say "I know a guy" you can bring them back here.
The OP question was "how". Not "why". Now look at what y'all did.
I expect some flack, but y'all be safe anyway.
OK, brief answer: you can get the standard sear block from Brownells. This will include the magazine disconnector but NOT the manual safety.
Sorry to break it to you, but the manual safety cannot be retrofitted. S&W will not sell you any parts related to safety devices. They will provide them to armorers who have graduated from one of their schools, but I'm not real sure if the parts can be retrofitted-SFAIK, the sear block is different and you need the whole item plus the safety parts.
FWIW, I lugged magazine disconnector equipped service pistols for over 20 years and find the fear and loathing associated with them to be ridiculous.
Sorry to break it to you, but the manual safety cannot be retrofitted. S&W will not sell you any parts related to safety devices. They will provide them to armorers who have graduated from one of their schools, but I'm not real sure if the parts can be retrofitted-SFAIK, the sear block is different and you need the whole item plus the safety parts.
FWIW, I lugged magazine disconnector equipped service pistols for over 20 years and find the fear and loathing associated with them to be ridiculous.
SMMAssociates
Member
I haven't had my M&P40C apart lately, but from memory the magazine disconnect is the same as the "disassembly lever" (that yellow thing), except for some spring loading to force it into the "disconnect" position if the magazine is removed. The disassembly lever doesn't have that spring.
Adding (or removing) that would be trivial, and applies to all of the non-Shield versions (I'm not 100% on the .45 version, but it should be the same).
However, the thumb safety is another animal. The Hilary Lock is not present on/in the sear assembly, and the space where the Lock's hole would be is covered up by some small parts and a spring that do the necessary blocking.
This requires (besides the cutout in the plastic grip) the proper sear assembly, a little spring, and a tiny cam. (And the safety lever.) There's just no place to put these parts in the non-thumb-safety assembly except for cutting the grip for the lever.
(IMHO, the thumb safety may have been an afterthought at S&W. I think that the magazine safety, bearing in mind that Hilary Locks popped into S&W's line for a while back then, came into being when somebody noticed the simplicity of adding it with just a couple of parts.)
I'm neutral on the magazine disconnect. I don't believe that, in extremis, you'd manage to drop a magazine.... But, unless you're married to hot magazine changes (useable round in chamber), I don't see much hurt. YMMV....
The thumb safety, OTOH, just seems to be "right" only in the sense that it operates in the "standard" fashion - "down", rather than "up". I have a couple of older S&W semi's that I don't carry for that reason. Just too easy to move.... (The Shield's thumb safety is closer to reality, although, IMHO, the lever's a tiny bit too small. 1911 folks are at least used to the direction. It's also trivial to remove.)
Unfortunately, it's still (IMHO) a bad idea to remove a manufacturer-supplied safety device....
Regards,
Adding (or removing) that would be trivial, and applies to all of the non-Shield versions (I'm not 100% on the .45 version, but it should be the same).
However, the thumb safety is another animal. The Hilary Lock is not present on/in the sear assembly, and the space where the Lock's hole would be is covered up by some small parts and a spring that do the necessary blocking.
This requires (besides the cutout in the plastic grip) the proper sear assembly, a little spring, and a tiny cam. (And the safety lever.) There's just no place to put these parts in the non-thumb-safety assembly except for cutting the grip for the lever.
(IMHO, the thumb safety may have been an afterthought at S&W. I think that the magazine safety, bearing in mind that Hilary Locks popped into S&W's line for a while back then, came into being when somebody noticed the simplicity of adding it with just a couple of parts.)
I'm neutral on the magazine disconnect. I don't believe that, in extremis, you'd manage to drop a magazine.... But, unless you're married to hot magazine changes (useable round in chamber), I don't see much hurt. YMMV....
The thumb safety, OTOH, just seems to be "right" only in the sense that it operates in the "standard" fashion - "down", rather than "up". I have a couple of older S&W semi's that I don't carry for that reason. Just too easy to move.... (The Shield's thumb safety is closer to reality, although, IMHO, the lever's a tiny bit too small. 1911 folks are at least used to the direction. It's also trivial to remove.)
Unfortunately, it's still (IMHO) a bad idea to remove a manufacturer-supplied safety device....
Regards,
SKU 206304 for an M&P9C with thumb safety
The usefulness of a mag disconnect is dubious. It's another part that can fail. The thumb safety is the most you would need.
In a tussle, you're more likely to release your magazine on accident than in a super-aware state of "Gee, about to lose control of my gun, better drop the mag to render it useless by the assailant". You want your gun to still shoot after you accidentally drop that mag.
The usefulness of a mag disconnect is dubious. It's another part that can fail. The thumb safety is the most you would need.
In a tussle, you're more likely to release your magazine on accident than in a super-aware state of "Gee, about to lose control of my gun, better drop the mag to render it useless by the assailant". You want your gun to still shoot after you accidentally drop that mag.
gwpercle
Member
I would go with Option # 1.
SMMAssociates
Member
Similar threads
- Locked
